Definitive testing for inter-cooler pump and MAP?
03-23-2006, 12:48 PM
#1
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Definitive testing for inter-cooler pump and MAP?
I'm going to have the inter-cooler and MAP checked out on my car, but what is a definitive test I can tell my dealer to do? My understanding is that these can fail even without a fault code tripping, so what can I tell my dealer to do to guarantee they are being checked accurately?
Is there anything I can do to trip these? I have the power-loss at about 80 or so when I stay on it hard, and general random power availability. Sometimes it's a ROCKET and sometimes, I'm in a C280. It's basically dangerous, since I will get on it, expecting it to be the C280 and it will just TAKE OFF. It's obvious that SOMETHING is going on.
I had my adaptation cleared for the torque-converter/jerk issue, and I paid for a glycol test which came out negative. Before I get in there and replace the crap valeo radiator, I'd like to get these other things worked out.
Any guidance/experience there appreciated.
Is there anything I can do to trip these? I have the power-loss at about 80 or so when I stay on it hard, and general random power availability. Sometimes it's a ROCKET and sometimes, I'm in a C280. It's basically dangerous, since I will get on it, expecting it to be the C280 and it will just TAKE OFF. It's obvious that SOMETHING is going on.
I had my adaptation cleared for the torque-converter/jerk issue, and I paid for a glycol test which came out negative. Before I get in there and replace the crap valeo radiator, I'd like to get these other things worked out.
Any guidance/experience there appreciated.
03-23-2006, 05:23 PM
#3
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You can check to see if your intercooler pump is operating by starting your car then shut it off and quickly go to the front bumper. On the passenger side of the lower grill you will hear a pump running if the intercooler pump is working. It runs for 5-20 seconds or so depending on different circumstances, but it always runs for those 5 seconds after the car is shut off.
03-23-2006, 06:09 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Zeppelin
You can check to see if your intercooler pump is operating by starting your car then shut it off and quickly go to the front bumper. On the passenger side of the lower grill you will hear a pump running if the intercooler pump is working. It runs for 5-20 seconds or so depending on different circumstances, but it always runs for those 5 seconds after the car is shut off.
edit: is it possible that it's going out randomly, or are they pretty reliable if it's running at all?
Thanks. Anyone have a good check for the MAP. How hard would that be to replace myself? Also, $$$?
Thanks!
Last edited by Bif powell; 03-23-2006 at 06:16 PM.
03-23-2006, 06:16 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by 1FASTC32
is there a TSB for the torque converter/jerk issue? mine has the same problem and i would like it fixed...
Enjoy
03-23-2006, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Zeppelin
You can check to see if your intercooler pump is operating by starting your car then shut it off and quickly go to the front bumper. On the passenger side of the lower grill you will hear a pump running if the intercooler pump is working. It runs for 5-20 seconds or so depending on different circumstances, but it always runs for those 5 seconds after the car is shut off.
im going to try this today..
i might just replace the IC pump even even if it works... I rather do it now then later.
03-23-2006, 09:15 PM
#7
Originally Posted by Bif powell
awesome
thanks...
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03-23-2006, 09:16 PM
#8
Originally Posted by TopGun32
im going to try this today..
i might just replace the IC pump even even if it works... I rather do it now then later.
i might just replace the IC pump even even if it works... I rather do it now then later.
let us know how it turns out, i am thinking of just replacing mine as well...anyone know how much they cost?
03-24-2006, 10:52 AM
#9
In so cal I would talk to Vadim.
The IC pump is added by AMG to the usual C-class electronics system, so it is outside of the direct OBDII scanning on these cars. This makes it somewhat hard for people/techs to diagnose the pump….. but when the pump is working the intake air temp (IAT) is far lower than when it is not. When the IC pump stops, the IAT goes up rapidly because of heat-soak, then the SC is turned off electronically as a fail-safe so it doesn’t burn itself up.
Buy some OBDII software for your laptop, log the IAT as it goes through the roof, and the car limps, and there is your proof.
BTW you don’t need a typical boost gauge either, the software can measure boost directly and more accurately
The IC pump is added by AMG to the usual C-class electronics system, so it is outside of the direct OBDII scanning on these cars. This makes it somewhat hard for people/techs to diagnose the pump….. but when the pump is working the intake air temp (IAT) is far lower than when it is not. When the IC pump stops, the IAT goes up rapidly because of heat-soak, then the SC is turned off electronically as a fail-safe so it doesn’t burn itself up.
Buy some OBDII software for your laptop, log the IAT as it goes through the roof, and the car limps, and there is your proof.
BTW you don’t need a typical boost gauge either, the software can measure boost directly and more accurately
03-24-2006, 10:58 AM
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Silver 2002 C32, Silver 2006 CLK 350
Originally Posted by rrf
In so cal I would talk to Vadim.
The IC pump is added by AMG to the usual C-class electronics system, so it is outside of the direct OBDII scanning on these cars. This makes it somewhat hard for people/techs to diagnose the pump….. but when the pump is working the intake air temp (IAT) is far lower than when it is not. When the IC pump stops, the IAT goes up rapidly because of heat-soak, then the SC is turned off electronically as a fail-safe so it doesn’t burn itself up.
Buy some OBDII software for your laptop, log the IAT as it goes through the roof, and the car limps, and there is your proof.
BTW you don’t need a typical boost gauge either, the software can measure boost directly and more accurately
The IC pump is added by AMG to the usual C-class electronics system, so it is outside of the direct OBDII scanning on these cars. This makes it somewhat hard for people/techs to diagnose the pump….. but when the pump is working the intake air temp (IAT) is far lower than when it is not. When the IC pump stops, the IAT goes up rapidly because of heat-soak, then the SC is turned off electronically as a fail-safe so it doesn’t burn itself up.
Buy some OBDII software for your laptop, log the IAT as it goes through the roof, and the car limps, and there is your proof.
BTW you don’t need a typical boost gauge either, the software can measure boost directly and more accurately
03-24-2006, 11:39 AM
#11
Originally Posted by Trekman
Does anyone know if there is an after market pump with better flow that will fit and work better than the stock pump?
i am going to look this weekend and see if there is any way that i can fit an intecooler pump from a lightning or cobra along with their heat exchanger....i want some better cooling capacity on this car....i shouldn't be that hard to fit something that is from another car as long as it physically fits, mainly because it just needs a 12v source...
03-24-2006, 12:59 PM
#13
well, then that is already positive news, i will let you know what i figure out...a friend of mine has a cobra and he is going to come over and let me look and take some measurements...
03-31-2006, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Bif powell
Just did that, I CAN hear it. W00t!
edit: is it possible that it's going out randomly, or are they pretty reliable if it's running at all?
Thanks. Anyone have a good check for the MAP. How hard would that be to replace myself? Also, $$$?
Thanks!
edit: is it possible that it's going out randomly, or are they pretty reliable if it's running at all?
Thanks. Anyone have a good check for the MAP. How hard would that be to replace myself? Also, $$$?
Thanks!
took the car for service B $280
they found a faulty code for the MAP is Manifold Pressure/Vaccuum Sensor. $330 + labor = $520
therefore just tell the service tech about the power loss and have them check the IC pump or the MAP. My tech quickly recognized that these cars have that common problem.
he gave me a %10 discount on my whole bill and I paid $640 out the door.
The only complaint I had is that I took my car to the dealer 3 months ago, and had them check all my engine components. They found nothing. Now 3 months later, they found a code.
either I had bad timing or they really didn't do their job 3 months ago.
either way, I paid for the fix and the car runs really nice after 1+ hour of traffic. Usually it would taper off.
03-31-2006, 12:57 PM
#17
Originally Posted by TopGun32
took the car for service B $280
they found a faulty code for the MAP is Manifold Pressure/Vaccuum Sensor. $330 + labor = $520
therefore just tell the service tech about the power loss and have them check the IC pump or the MAP. My tech quickly recognized that these cars have that common problem.
he gave me a %10 discount on my whole bill and I paid $640 out the door.
The only complaint I had is that I took my car to the dealer 3 months ago, and had them check all my engine components. They found nothing. Now 3 months later, they found a code.
either I had bad timing or they really didn't do their job 3 months ago.
either way, I paid for the fix and the car runs really nice after 1+ hour of traffic. Usually it would taper off.
they found a faulty code for the MAP is Manifold Pressure/Vaccuum Sensor. $330 + labor = $520
therefore just tell the service tech about the power loss and have them check the IC pump or the MAP. My tech quickly recognized that these cars have that common problem.
he gave me a %10 discount on my whole bill and I paid $640 out the door.
The only complaint I had is that I took my car to the dealer 3 months ago, and had them check all my engine components. They found nothing. Now 3 months later, they found a code.
either I had bad timing or they really didn't do their job 3 months ago.
either way, I paid for the fix and the car runs really nice after 1+ hour of traffic. Usually it would taper off.
good news! glad you got it fixed...i have one question though, since i bought mine used and there is no warranty, what exactly is service A and service B? and how can you reset the computer once you have done the service?
03-31-2006, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 1FASTC32
good news! glad you got it fixed...i have one question though, since i bought mine used and there is no warranty, what exactly is service A and service B? and how can you reset the computer once you have done the service?
service A is about $150+
and service B is about $250+
Service A is every 10k miles and Service B is 20k miles I believe.
basically its just an oil change for A
and Service B is oil change plus they check various components...
either one is really not big of a deal. If want to buy mobil 1 and do your own service probably would be ideal. However I don't know how to remove the error code.
I bet somebody here does?
03-31-2006, 01:24 PM
#19
Originally Posted by TopGun32
However I don't know how to remove the error code.
I bet somebody here does?
I bet somebody here does?
I had an aftermarket service light reset tool for my BMWs. I wonder if someone makes such a thing for M-B cars. Anybody heard of one?
04-01-2006, 08:38 PM
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2002 C32 AMG & Sold: Mazda RX-8
Page 163 of the C-Class Owner's Manual has the instructions on how to reset the service indicator yourself. This is under the ASSYST part of the Controls section.
04-01-2006, 11:22 PM
#21
Originally Posted by OZC32AMG
Page 163 of the C-Class Owner's Manual has the instructions on how to reset the service indicator yourself. This is under the ASSYST part of the Controls section.
awesome! now, will someone post up the instructions since my car didn't come with an owners manual...
thanks in advance...
04-09-2006, 02:55 AM
#22
ok, swapped in the Lightning Intercooler pump, it is actually the same part number as the one we have except for the last number...all i can say is WOW! it is like driving a whole new car...
ONE NOTE: this is not plug and play...i had to fab up connectors for the new pump and the end of the hoses are too big for the new pump...i ended up cutting off the end of one and using a different clamp on the other...fairly easy, but if you are not mechanically inclined, then i would not attempt it...considering the other things that i have done to cars, this was a walk in the park, only took about an hour...
ONE NOTE: this is not plug and play...i had to fab up connectors for the new pump and the end of the hoses are too big for the new pump...i ended up cutting off the end of one and using a different clamp on the other...fairly easy, but if you are not mechanically inclined, then i would not attempt it...considering the other things that i have done to cars, this was a walk in the park, only took about an hour...
04-09-2006, 04:30 AM
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2002 C32 AMG & Sold: Mazda RX-8
Ifast,
Did you check the flow curve chart on that pump? Does it flow the same Litres per minute as the original? Given that you said the pipe connections are smaller it may not be flowing at the same rate as the original. I recall that the upgrade pump that Evosport supply flows like 4-5 times more per minute than the original intercooler pump.
Did you check the flow curve chart on that pump? Does it flow the same Litres per minute as the original? Given that you said the pipe connections are smaller it may not be flowing at the same rate as the original. I recall that the upgrade pump that Evosport supply flows like 4-5 times more per minute than the original intercooler pump.
04-09-2006, 09:45 AM
#24
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Thread Starter
Would that require a bigger/better/different Intercooler?
Originally Posted by OZC32AMG
Ifast,
Did you check the flow curve chart on that pump? Does it flow the same Litres per minute as the original? Given that you said the pipe connections are smaller it may not be flowing at the same rate as the original. I recall that the upgrade pump that Evosport supply flows like 4-5 times more per minute than the original intercooler pump.
Did you check the flow curve chart on that pump? Does it flow the same Litres per minute as the original? Given that you said the pipe connections are smaller it may not be flowing at the same rate as the original. I recall that the upgrade pump that Evosport supply flows like 4-5 times more per minute than the original intercooler pump.
04-09-2006, 01:56 PM
#25
Originally Posted by OZC32AMG
Ifast,
Did you check the flow curve chart on that pump? Does it flow the same Litres per minute as the original? Given that you said the pipe connections are smaller it may not be flowing at the same rate as the original. I recall that the upgrade pump that Evosport supply flows like 4-5 times more per minute than the original intercooler pump.
Did you check the flow curve chart on that pump? Does it flow the same Litres per minute as the original? Given that you said the pipe connections are smaller it may not be flowing at the same rate as the original. I recall that the upgrade pump that Evosport supply flows like 4-5 times more per minute than the original intercooler pump.
no, i could not find any flow rates....i am assuming, and this is only a logical deduction, that the lightning pump flows more because their heat exchanger is about 5x larger than ours...so, it would have to flow more in order to effectively move the coolant through the amount of space that they have...
if you have any flow rates for the stock C32 pump, i would like to see them...it would be nice to actually know what it is flowing instead just guessing...i will see if i can dig up some flow rates on the lightning pump...
