Vadim @ evosport

There were number of questions with regard to HP/TQ of C32. Car is officially rated at 349HP and 329 ft.lbs. of TQ at the flywheel. If we use 15% drivetrain loss factor, HP at the wheels should be at 349 x 0.85 = 297HP, TQ at the wheels should be 329 x 0.85 = 280 ft. lbs.

Out of ten C32s we have dynoed on our DYNOJET, only one achieved those numbers. The weakest one is at 270HP and 265TQ. The rest fall in between. Typical C32 is around 285HP and 275TQ.

Our C32 was as low as 256HP/260TQ, early in its life. That number went up to 283HP/275TQ on its own, over first 4500 miles.

Blue run on the Graph 1 below.




-------------------------------------- GRAPH 1 ---------------------------------


Each car was ran 2 to 3 times with ample cooling of 10-15 minutes between runs. We have two 3000 cfm industrial fans right in front of the car performing cooling duty. In other words each car was tested identically. Each run is corrected to SAE standards and cars were dynoed in the evening, when temperature is usually around mid60s, year round.

So what is the problem? Using OBDII scanner, I scanned several cars, including our own. Ignition timing and IAT were about the same. Notice that we do a full 0-145 MPH. This will approximate 1/4 mile and longer run on the street. Now, short of the wind tunnel, we can not reproduce airflow of high speeds. However, any short comings of Intercooler (IC) circuit can be exposed.

Since AITs were very similar, we can probably rule out IC being different from car to car. Next is timing. Different octane settings, performed by the dealer, suppose to add or substact timing and fueling depending on octane level. Unfortunately, there is no way to confirm the setting without MB Star computer. This will be resolved in a near future, as we found a source for it in Europe.

We have done quite a bit of testing playing with exhaust, intake, ice in IC circuit and so on. At this time, we know for sure that IC cooling circuit does not have enough capacity for hard driving. This can be resolved by utilizing windshield washer as an additional source of cooling capacity. More info in the earlier post here:

https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=18979

Since each engine is hand-built, perhaps there is some varience due to human factor. Without performing leak-down and compression test on each individual car, this theory will be hard to prove.

Other C32s and SLK32s tested in different states, seem to make more power. There were several SLK32s with over 300HP/290TQ and couple of C32s in high 290sHP/TQ.

Since we have "Donkey ****" 91 Octane here in CA, I am starting to lean towards octane theory. Furthermore, I have recently dynoed three E46 M3s. Please see Graph 2.



Blue graph is '02 stock 6-speed, red graph is '02 stock SMG and green graph is '02 SMG with Supersprint header w/o cats and
Superspint RACE muffler. And most importantly 100 octane UL Unocal 76 gas. E46 M3 is rated at 333HP/269TQ, which should be at the wheels 283HP/229TQ. Green car is just around this number, extra 6HP and 8 TQ can be attributed to exhaust. The green graph is very smooth and consistent, just as it should be.

Blue and Red graphs are down on power everywhere and choppy. It appears that DME is retarding timing. Especially around 7400 rpm.

Within next two weeks we have a number of M3 coming in for upgrades. I will dyno those cars also to see what kind of numbers they put out.

In the meantime, I have a 55 gallon drum of 104 UL being delivered to the shop on Friday. I will burn a tank of 104 and then redyno my car to see if it made any difference. In the past we used C116 as octane booster, but it was added with the car already on the dyno. I do not think it mixed well until some miles later.

P.S. Here is a graph of my C32 (RED) vs. M3 SMG (BLUE) with exhaust. Have fun.

BTW this is the M3 that ran 13.2@107 at Carlsbad several weeks ago. Car is stripped down to 3020 lbs.

shahin

Damn, all he could get was 13.2? Some mustang magazine took a stock m3 to 12.7.

Norm C32

Boy, if the C32 could just hold one gear...

Timing really gets cut on the C32 between shifts. This is where the M3, making less power but shifting quicker due to no torque converter, makes up for the deficency.

Vadim, there are some pretty big torque spikes with just the OD Pulley Kit. Had the computer not had a chance to adjust after installation.

Norm
13.3 @ 105 MPH at a portly 3600 lbs. without driver

Vadim @ evosport

Norm: Green run was with ODPS, but without IC upgrade. You can see how the HP falls off as AIT goes up. Red run is with ODPS and IC upgrade. It also does not have big TQ converter spikes.

Zeppelin

Vadim,

The other thing that is interesting is that your Horsepower peaks are at 1000 or more RPM from redline. My C32 that you dyno'd at your facility(294hp on multiple passes) made it's peak right at redline. The horsepower curve is a straight line from bottom to top. If you projected the line on yours from bottom to top it would add another 20 hp or so. Not sure what is going on here.

Also if race gas makes a difference in these cars then they have some form of Knock Dectector sensor that prevents detonation(a good thing). Maybe you can make a bigger crank pulley for more boost than the stage 1?

Thanks again for more good info.

Tim

Bux

no stock m3 will ever hit a 12.7 in the 1/4 that mustang article shahin has, i don't know what to say about that but why is it the ONLY one?

shahin whats your m3 run in the 1/4? timeslip?

sticky2

The m3 ran a 12.8 I believe and the weather was 35 degrees! Put a c32 in similar weather and you will see the same time slips

sticky2

Vadim, do you believe we should be going with a 15% driveline loss? I have been, but from more reading, it seems that 20% along with other automatics is what we should be using. That would mean cars should be around 280 @ the wheels. That seems to be where most c32's are dynoing at.

Bux

So now m3's and c32's are 12sec cars? B*LLSH*T! man ..the m3 was pure stock?!

Vadim @ evosport

Tim: Yes, you are right, I have noticed that too. Since your C32 is one of the strongest ones we have dynoed, I wonder if it an indication of some kind of restriction either on intake or exhaust. More testing is needed.

Gimpy: That M3 does sounds very healthy. I wonder if they used DOT slicks and forgot to mention it.

As far as 20%, remember TQ converter on our cars locks up right away, this is where most of drivetrain losses difference between ATX and MTX comes from. E55s and CLK55s are also dyno in mid290s HP and are rated at 342-354HP.

sticky2

Uh, I did not say m3's and c32's are both 12 second cars. You put them in freezing weather, it will make a difference. In muscle mustangs and fast fords, a guy with an m3 ran a 12.8 STOCK, but in 35 degree weather. When they tested the car on a normal day (read: 70 degrees or so) it ran a 13.2.

Fast Eddy

THat is correct, bull**** is the only word to describe those numbers, now we have that clown talking 35 degrees and so on. B*llsh*t just does not seem to have any limit. Infinite bul****, very interesting.

Fast Eddy

yum, yum, very yummy bull**** I'm not hangry however.

sticky2

Ok look, i was not putting anyone down or insulting anyone. I do not see the point of you calling me a clown. I am not talking **** on c32's or m3's simply pointing out what someone ran in a magazine. Since you are so diluded I went and got the magazine and decided to type up the article for you, so now carefully remove your head from your ***.


Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords August 2002

Page 50 "BMW M3-The German Connection:"

"What, you may wonder, is a BMW m3 doing in MM&FF? Well, normally we avoid such machinery, but when the car's owner is no less a well-known person in the late model mustang movement than 5.0 pioneer Lee Rutter, we had to check it out.
Back in the day, Rutter was a T-5 terror, shifting his no-option LX to amazingly low ET's. His family's carpet business is keeping him extremely busy, however, and he hasn't had time to race in the last couple of years. That doesn't mean he doesn't appreciate fast cars.
To that end, his daily driver is this 2002 m3. With its sybaritic accoutrements, it shames his radio-delete 5.0 from a comfort standpoint. Hell, for 50,000 it should. This is the German interpretation of the ponycar--room for four, but with a straight 6-cylinder engine, 6-speed transmission and independent rear. Up front is a MacPherson strut suspension and the 6-banger cranks out 333 horsepower.
When Lee ran a 12.74 at 108 in 37 degree weather after Raceway Park opened this season, we had to see this thing run. His best runs on this day were all in the 13.20 range at 106 mph, pretty much even with the SS, but behind the Cobra. Naturally, it was on the road course where this German showed its pedigree. It was over half-second quicker on the race track on its best lap and even on Evan Smiths first lap was 3/10's quicker than the cobra's best. You can thank BMW's huge motorsports program for much of this development."

To put it short, you were just owned :p

sticky2

You can proceed to lick my ******* now. Additionally, I have yet to understand why you jumped all over me for quoting a magazine article. Are you that insecure? When the security of the of your c32's supremecy is threatened, you proceed to insult anyone at random? I have a c32 idiot, I was defending it myself by stating why the m3 ran such fast times. When something doesn't go your way, you immediately jump all over it? You must be a hit with the ladies, as soon as they are sick of your "charming" personality they proceed in the opposite direction. Now we know why you are so angry, you have never gotten laid. Do us all a favor, and make sure you never have sex. If you were to have kids your stupidity would only spread at a greater rate.

Vadim @ evosport

OK, both of you knock it off. Name calling is childish and does not belong here. Take it PM.

sticky2

Funny how no one said that before, when he started it, i finished it.

Fast Eddy

Thats gay, gay, I new there was something peculiar about you.

Fast Eddy

YOu finished??!! Jerking off? Good job, because what are the chances of anybody leaking of something you dont have in the first place? Nada?
Sounds to me like a gay looking for action on this forum, wierd, you must be very fugly.
Now that you finished with yourself what is it gonna be---back to bull****ing?

Fast Eddy

I have a pully question!

sticky2

Please do us all a favor and proceed to get steralized. The IQ of this board has already dropped 20 points thanks to you. Please leave before we all are forced to sink to your level. Your just upset becasue your father takes you down by the furnace and touches you in your pants. Don't take your gay aggression out on all of us.

Fast Eddy

the bull**** on this board just went up by 100 points !! Just like horse power on new 2003 Benzes.
I imagine if you were put somewhere where its 35 degrees the bull**** woud expode exponentially!!. We have to keep you hot, hot, hot or you will drown in your own bull****. Be carefull , friend!!

Bux

yo eddy...chill out!

sticky2

Funny how everything I said about the m3 I backed up. A member asked about the m3 that ran a 12.7, I explained why. Why can't you simply admit you made a mistake, the same way your parents did when you were born?

Mach430

This forum is about C32s, not about bashing eachother. Please help keep it a healthy environment for everybody to enjoy. This post is closed for obvious reasons.