My C32 may have seen it's last track day. New toy.
09-27-2007, 08:32 PM
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E36M3 race car/Ferrari F355 GTS/1973 Mini 1275GT/Fiat Abarth/ML63/SLK55
cool you got it.
i may be running my last TT with c32 this october......it's my daily driver now. will get an e36 m3 next yr.
let me know if you need reading material re car......i have 40 yrs of Road and track and car and driver..plus recent porsche excellence mags.
i may be running my last TT with c32 this october......it's my daily driver now. will get an e36 m3 next yr.
let me know if you need reading material re car......i have 40 yrs of Road and track and car and driver..plus recent porsche excellence mags.
09-27-2007, 09:20 PM
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C55 AMG, 135i, 911 GT3, GLE43 AMG
Congrats on the new track toy. I must admit that I've also been thinking of getting a new track car that is lighter and more agile in the future (maybe within the next 2 years).
My guess is that even a stock C32 will outrun a stock 944 on a twisty race track with equal drivers, don't you think? If you start to lighten or modify the 944, that may be a different story.
My guess is that even a stock C32 will outrun a stock 944 on a twisty race track with equal drivers, don't you think? If you start to lighten or modify the 944, that may be a different story.
09-27-2007, 09:30 PM
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c32, 190e 16v turbo
good choice 944's make excellent track cars the weight dist is 50/50 trans in rear engine up front. I used to have a turbo and although i never tracked it i did used to take on ramps at rediculous speeds
A friend of mine used to have one that he raced in i think it was called 944 cup?
Man now that im thinking about it i miss my turbo
A friend of mine used to have one that he raced in i think it was called 944 cup?Man now that im thinking about it i miss my turbo
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09-27-2007, 10:48 PM
#9
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Great choice…it’s all about momentum! There is something about ~50/50 weight distribution, proper suspension geometry, and not too much thrust that makes a good driver even better. Not only that, but it has a bit more cachet than that spec Miata you had previously considered.
If you have not already done so, treat yourself to a subscription to Excellence. It’s a great source for worthwhile technical information and trusted vendors.
Trust we’ll still see you around…
If you have not already done so, treat yourself to a subscription to Excellence. It’s a great source for worthwhile technical information and trusted vendors.
Trust we’ll still see you around…
09-27-2007, 11:21 PM
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Will you be my Jake if I'll be your Samantha? 
Congrats! Great choice. One of the most underrated cars of all times. If I did not have the S4 I’d definitely get 944T as a track car. Just be careful, the mod bug could be very strong with these cars. There is a ton of cool stuff you can do to it.
Unlikely. 944 is faster than Mini S and catching a Mini on a tight track is a very tall order for stock C32.
Congrats! Great choice. One of the most underrated cars of all times. If I did not have the S4 I’d definitely get 944T as a track car. Just be careful, the mod bug could be very strong with these cars. There is a ton of cool stuff you can do to it.
Last edited by OPM; 09-27-2007 at 11:35 PM.
09-28-2007, 10:46 AM
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C32 AMG
I think it is rated at a whopping 168HP at the crank. With equivalent preparation, it is very comparable to a Miata. Lap times for Spec Miata and Spec 944 (non-turbo) are almost the same. Add to that the Porsche image and a real hard top, and it was an easy decision. Not expensive at all either.
On a twisty track, with equivalent tires, it should outrun a C32; but if there are long straights, the C32 will make up time.
Last edited by Fifth Ring; 09-28-2007 at 11:10 AM.
09-28-2007, 01:34 PM
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09-28-2007, 04:33 PM
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E36M3 race car/Ferrari F355 GTS/1973 Mini 1275GT/Fiat Abarth/ML63/SLK55
lemme hijack the thread a bit as most of the track folks are here......
track capable vehicle for <$15K.
1995 (obd 1) BMW M3.
3rd gen rx 7
944 s2 or turbo
fifth and were chatting via email it i have a strong feeling i'll miss the c32's power if i went to a momentum car so any suggestions to the list above?
who has a e36m3 is it OPM?
re c32....even on the tight tracks i do well. all things being equal i don't think a 944 would be faster. more fun , yes but not faster.
track capable vehicle for <$15K.
1995 (obd 1) BMW M3.
3rd gen rx 7
944 s2 or turbo
fifth and were chatting via email it i have a strong feeling i'll miss the c32's power if i went to a momentum car so any suggestions to the list above?
who has a e36m3 is it OPM?
re c32....even on the tight tracks i do well. all things being equal i don't think a 944 would be faster. more fun , yes but not faster.
09-28-2007, 04:58 PM
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C32 AMG
lemme hijack the thread a bit as most of the track folks are here......
track capable vehicle for <$15K.
1995 (obd 1) BMW M3.
3rd gen rx 7
944 s2 or turbo
fifth and were chatting via email it i have a strong feeling i'll miss the c32's power if i went to a momentum car so any suggestions to the list above?
who has a e36m3 is it OPM?
re c32....even on the tight tracks i do well. all things being equal i don't think a 944 would be faster. more fun , yes but not faster.
track capable vehicle for <$15K.
1995 (obd 1) BMW M3.
3rd gen rx 7
944 s2 or turbo
fifth and were chatting via email it i have a strong feeling i'll miss the c32's power if i went to a momentum car so any suggestions to the list above?
who has a e36m3 is it OPM?
re c32....even on the tight tracks i do well. all things being equal i don't think a 944 would be faster. more fun , yes but not faster.
From my 944 research, I would note that the 944 S2 would seem fairly weak by today's standards (208 HP). It's also very, very hard to find. The turbo, with mods, would certainly satisfy you, but I'm told it's a maintenance nightmare. Look on the Spec 944 web sites. There seem to be a lot of track-prepped cars for sale. A good friend of mine has a track-only 944T, full cage, stripped, and it's a real beast. He keeps up with stock GT3s.
10-04-2007, 12:37 AM
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Yes, I had an M3 for a short time, years ago, before I discovered the beautiful world of HPDE. 
Although I driven all the cars you listed, I never had a chance to push them on a track. They all have pros and cons. For example, with M3 watch out for stress crack near rear strut mounts, with RX-7 blown seals, with 944T oil leak from turbo. Of course each car has a ton of other model unique and generic problems. Also, it would be prudent to conceder parts and technical knowledge availability. There is a huge aftermarket for M3 and finding a good independent mechanic is easy. But try to find a knowledgeable RX-7 tech and you’ll likely fail. Finding great lightweight wheels for RX-7 is very easy, but for 944T is almost imposable.
I would focus on driving characteristics of each car rather than potential problems. With proper suspension, handling is very similar among these cars, with 944T being slightly superior to M3 and M3 slightly better than RX-7. RX-7 desperately needs LSD. The power on RX-7 is of course incredible and M3 has no torque. Coming from C32 you’ll be disappointed with M3 power. Although you can SC it, most M3 experts will advise against it. Very few SC M3s run trouble free at the track. You can do an engine rebuild to Euro Spec, but that’s pricey. With 944T turbo lag at higher psi will be noticeable so you’ll have to learn how to drive a turbo car.
I am confident all of these can make a fantastic track car. But picking one is highly subjective. My personal preference is 944T. I highly recommend you buy someone else’s already built track car. It will save you a ton of money. There are increasable deals out there. I’ve seen track ready E30 M3 sell for $8K and 944T with trailer for $7K. Just watch out for junk titles. If you insist on building it from scratch I am not sure if your budget of $15K is realistic. All these cars sell for about $8K. Brakes, suspension, engine, safety equipment, labor, etc., will likely run more than $7K. I’d also budget about $2-3K per year to keep it running.
Although I driven all the cars you listed, I never had a chance to push them on a track. They all have pros and cons. For example, with M3 watch out for stress crack near rear strut mounts, with RX-7 blown seals, with 944T oil leak from turbo. Of course each car has a ton of other model unique and generic problems. Also, it would be prudent to conceder parts and technical knowledge availability. There is a huge aftermarket for M3 and finding a good independent mechanic is easy. But try to find a knowledgeable RX-7 tech and you’ll likely fail. Finding great lightweight wheels for RX-7 is very easy, but for 944T is almost imposable. I would focus on driving characteristics of each car rather than potential problems. With proper suspension, handling is very similar among these cars, with 944T being slightly superior to M3 and M3 slightly better than RX-7. RX-7 desperately needs LSD. The power on RX-7 is of course incredible and M3 has no torque. Coming from C32 you’ll be disappointed with M3 power. Although you can SC it, most M3 experts will advise against it. Very few SC M3s run trouble free at the track. You can do an engine rebuild to Euro Spec, but that’s pricey. With 944T turbo lag at higher psi will be noticeable so you’ll have to learn how to drive a turbo car.
I am confident all of these can make a fantastic track car. But picking one is highly subjective. My personal preference is 944T. I highly recommend you buy someone else’s already built track car. It will save you a ton of money. There are increasable deals out there. I’ve seen track ready E30 M3 sell for $8K and 944T with trailer for $7K. Just watch out for junk titles. If you insist on building it from scratch I am not sure if your budget of $15K is realistic. All these cars sell for about $8K. Brakes, suspension, engine, safety equipment, labor, etc., will likely run more than $7K. I’d also budget about $2-3K per year to keep it running.
Last edited by OPM; 10-04-2007 at 12:40 AM.
10-05-2007, 07:20 AM
#19
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Yes, I had an M3 for a short time, years ago, before I discovered the beautiful world of HPDE. Although I driven all the cars you listed, I never had a chance to push them on a track. They all have pros and cons. For example, with M3 watch out for stress crack near rear strut mounts, with RX-7 blown seals, with 944T oil leak from turbo. Of course each car has a ton of other model unique and generic problems. Also, it would be prudent to conceder parts and technical knowledge availability. There is a huge aftermarket for M3 and finding a good independent mechanic is easy. But try to find a knowledgeable RX-7 tech and you’ll likely fail. Finding great lightweight wheels for RX-7 is very easy, but for 944T is almost imposable.
I would focus on driving characteristics of each car rather than potential problems. With proper suspension, handling is very similar among these cars, with 944T being slightly superior to M3 and M3 slightly better than RX-7. RX-7 desperately needs LSD. The power on RX-7 is of course incredible and M3 has no torque. Coming from C32 you’ll be disappointed with M3 power. Although you can SC it, most M3 experts will advise against it. Very few SC M3s run trouble free at the track. You can do an engine rebuild to Euro Spec, but that’s pricey. With 944T turbo lag at higher psi will be noticeable so you’ll have to learn how to drive a turbo car.
I am confident all of these can make a fantastic track car. But picking one is highly subjective. My personal preference is 944T. I highly recommend you buy someone else’s already built track car. It will save you a ton of money. There are increasable deals out there. I’ve seen track ready E30 M3 sell for $8K and 944T with trailer for $7K. Just watch out for junk titles. If you insist on building it from scratch I am not sure if your budget of $15K is realistic. All these cars sell for about $8K. Brakes, suspension, engine, safety equipment, labor, etc., will likely run more than $7K. I’d also budget about $2-3K per year to keep it running.
Although I driven all the cars you listed, I never had a chance to push them on a track. They all have pros and cons. For example, with M3 watch out for stress crack near rear strut mounts, with RX-7 blown seals, with 944T oil leak from turbo. Of course each car has a ton of other model unique and generic problems. Also, it would be prudent to conceder parts and technical knowledge availability. There is a huge aftermarket for M3 and finding a good independent mechanic is easy. But try to find a knowledgeable RX-7 tech and you’ll likely fail. Finding great lightweight wheels for RX-7 is very easy, but for 944T is almost imposable. I would focus on driving characteristics of each car rather than potential problems. With proper suspension, handling is very similar among these cars, with 944T being slightly superior to M3 and M3 slightly better than RX-7. RX-7 desperately needs LSD. The power on RX-7 is of course incredible and M3 has no torque. Coming from C32 you’ll be disappointed with M3 power. Although you can SC it, most M3 experts will advise against it. Very few SC M3s run trouble free at the track. You can do an engine rebuild to Euro Spec, but that’s pricey. With 944T turbo lag at higher psi will be noticeable so you’ll have to learn how to drive a turbo car.
I am confident all of these can make a fantastic track car. But picking one is highly subjective. My personal preference is 944T. I highly recommend you buy someone else’s already built track car. It will save you a ton of money. There are increasable deals out there. I’ve seen track ready E30 M3 sell for $8K and 944T with trailer for $7K. Just watch out for junk titles. If you insist on building it from scratch I am not sure if your budget of $15K is realistic. All these cars sell for about $8K. Brakes, suspension, engine, safety equipment, labor, etc., will likely run more than $7K. I’d also budget about $2-3K per year to keep it running.
But here are a couple of more points to consider:
1. The M's do suffer from low end torque below 4000, ALL of them. I even had the E46 motor, 333hp 275 torque, iand t was a DOG below 4000. AS far as a supercharger you are spot on my friend. they all have over a 10:1 compression ratio, which is not blower freindly. Two options here, 1 a VERY thinck head gasket worth about 0.5 points, or 2 custom pistons, which will BLOW your budget, pardon the pun.
2. The RX7, which a good friend of mine raced in turbo form is an extremely light car from the factory, they even drill the pedals from the factory. However, this weight savings comes at a price, IT EAT HIM UP ALIVE REPLACING THINGS THAT BROKE UNDER RAOD RACING CONDITIONS. He replaced EVERYTHING as it could not take the pounding from the track, or our lovly pot holes here in PA
3. Which leaves us the porsche, best bang for the buck, just check their websites as you siad, because they do have certain issues as well.
Check out GrassRoots racing mag for some GREAT deals on used race cars, as many already meet the SCCA rules already saving you some time and money, and are really CHEAP
Good luck
See yeah
10-05-2007, 10:22 AM
#20
The 944 is a definitely a great car to track and autocross, excellent choice!. The only issue I see with these cars is that you can easily find yourself putting a lot of money into them with suspension, rollcage, engine mods and end up with no resale value. If you want to talk best bang for the buck, I believe the aircooled 911s are it. The tub alone is worth more than some 944s that run. Its definitely a car that has almost a spiritual following and is DIY capable. Its a car that you have to learn to drive though, but once you do, its awesome. The 911 will retain its value as long as you're good to it. Enjoy your ride, maybe I'll see you at the track!
10-05-2007, 10:38 AM
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C32 AMG
The 944 is a definitely a great car to track and autocross, excellent choice!. The only issue I see with these cars is that you can easily find yourself putting a lot of money into them with suspension, rollcage, engine mods and end up with no resale value. If you want to talk best bang for the buck, I believe the aircooled 911s are it. The tub alone is worth more than some 944s that run. Its definitely a car that has almost a spiritual following and is DIY capable. Its a car that you have to learn to drive though, but once you do, its awesome. The 911 will retain its value as long as you're good to it. Enjoy your ride, maybe I'll see you at the track!
10-05-2007, 10:52 AM
#22
no doubt... 944's are sweet and would love to add one to my stable. Here's some recent pics of our last PCA autocross. You can see the typical line up of 911s, 968's, and 944s. The winner of the event drove an MR2 - go figure.
Last edited by fivepointfivev8; 10-07-2007 at 10:18 PM.
