jmlinmn

Cross-posted to the general discussion forum. Your opinions are greatly appreciated.

I'm a big fan of Audi/BMW/Mercedes and it's about time to retire my daily driver, a 2001 A6 4.2. I have two other cars, an A4 and a BMW M Roadster.

I like the power / torque in the A6, and I'm looking to get at least that level of performance (300 hp, 295 lb-ft torque, 9 trillion lb car) from my next car. I've decided that I don't need a midsize sedan, and I want to keep my purchase price < $40,000.

I don't like buying new- I prefer to buy an excellent example after about 2-3 years of depreciation. That being said, I am looking at the following vehicles:

2005 Mercedes C55 AMG:
5.4L V8, 362hp / 376 ft-lb torque. RWD, 4-door.
I've never driven one of these and I've never seen one in my neck of the woods (Minnesota). I like that the styling is a bit understated (doesn't look much different than a standard C class) and I love the power output. I'm less enthralled about the lack of a manual transmission, but my wife does not like driving a manual transmission, so that's a +/-. Perhaps more problematic is the fact that it's a high-torque vehicle with rear wheel drive. Even with snow tires it might be a bit of an adventure in the MN winters.

2005 Audi S4:
4.2L V8, 340hp / 302 ft-lb torque. Quattro (AWD- woohoo), 4-door.
I've always been a big Audi fan. I like the interior styling, I like Quattro. I definitely know what I'm getting with an Audi regarding winter performance, maintenance, the whole deal. That being said, they're a bit boring and there are a ton of S4s out here. I can get this as a manual, but I'm not sure I would. This feels like the most "sane" choice.

2005 M3 w/comp pkg:
3.2L V6, 333hp, 262ft-lb torque. RWD, 2-door.
I love M3s, but this is probably the least practical option for me. It's only 2 doors, it's RWD, and I already have an M Roadster with nearly identical performance. Still, it's tempting because these cars are so darned fun.

I will likely choose between the 3, above, and right now the C55 AMG is winning me over only because I really like the idea of the car (I've never driven it) with the S4 being a close second because it's perhaps the most practical and the best blend of power / practicality.

Stuff worth noting: I live in the St. Paul area of Minnesota. Winters are harsh and snow-filled (6-10" on its way today). I have 2 other cars as noted. The car I'm choosing will be a daily driver. I enjoy manual transmission but am leaning against it for a daily driver.

I would be greatly appreciative to hear your opinions on any / all of the cars above - I'd be really interested to hear how your RWD cars hold up in inclement / winter weather. My local BMW dealer told me he has a fair number of clients that throw snow tires on their M3s. Based off of how insane it was to try and move the roadster (granted, they were Pilot Sport tires, not winter tires) in and out of the garage in icy conditions, I don't really see it.

Lastly, are there any other cars that I should be considering given my parameters (<$40,000, northern climate, good power - as good / better than the A6 4.2)?

Thanks!

ScottW911

If you were to drive the C55 in the springtime, you would buy it. If you were driving one today, in MN, you would not be so happy. Even with the transmission in "comfort" or "winter" mode, traversing the snowy conditions would be a struggle for such a powerful RWD car.

Because you are already an Audi fan and owner, I would suggest the S4, with the quattro just for your winter conditions. As a daily driver, I would imagine you must have 3-6 months of treacherous driving conditions.

Now, if you lived in a mild climate like mine, the extra weight of the quattro system is a liability for a daily driver. In Southern California, the C55 would be my choice for a daily driver, in a heart beat.

Bif powell

I have a 2002 C32 and a B5 S4. I've driven the C55 and the B7 RS4. The Audis for general creature comforts and class don't get into the league of the Mercedes - just my opinion. I would say it's about the same as a Volkswagen - much better than American and most Japanese interiors IMHO, but just not even close to the BMW and MB - amazing seats though, but the leather is not as nice as the BMW and MBs IMHO. The Audi is just as lackluster for quality of moving parts as MB, with the Audi being slightly less of a hit on the wallet. If you get a 2 year old one with CPO and don't intend on modding it heavily, that might not be a concern in either case.

If you're going to track it, get the M3 but that seems silly with the roadster taking on that duty so well, as you point out. Plus...the M3 is loud and visceral (not bad, but maybe not when you want when you take your wife out in that one little black dress with just one shoulder strap, and heels...er...sorry ).

What I found, even with the RS4 is that the low-end torque was underwhelming for a V8, even coming from my C32. The C55 is much more powerful 'feeling' when you drive it but I mean COME ON...AWD!!! That's such a hard thing to remove from a daily-driver, especially in MN, especially TODAY

All of that said, I love both cars and since the ones you're looking at are the more modern equivalents, it's hard to **** up when these are your choices; Do you want a race car, the millennium falcon, or a snow-leopard?

jmlinmn

Thank you for well-considered response. I appreciate it. On a day like today I should probably have a snow leopard, but it's hard to pass on the idea of the C55 AMG. I'll have to test drive it.

bud4ya

I just made the same decision on the 3 cars but I was looking at the C32 instead of the C55. C55 was the next gen C32 with a V8. I was into modding the car for power so I choose the C32. I could get more HP for less money than the M and the Audi. There were not many mods that gave HP increase for the S4 expect F/I. I can tell you the M3 and the C55 will be noticable quicker than your A6. I also live in NH which we get a lot of snow. I have a winter beater so this was not a problem for me. If it is going to be a daily driver you may want to stick with the Audi being in MN. I have owned both Audi and BMW. In the snow and wet hands down the Audi. On dry pavement nothing like RWD. One thing to mention with the M3 you will need to rev it high to get to the power band. If you like the C55 maybe you could get a winter beater or use one of your other cars on real bad days. If you do drive the C55 or the M3 in the winter the snows are a must. My neighbor has the M3 and with snows he says he does just fine.

RDD

Living in MN and needs to be a daily driver = S4 for sure (get one with paddles). I'd only get the C55 or M3 if I didn't have to drive it in the snow. Between the C55 and M3, I'd get the M3 if you go to the track and C55 if you like torque and want to pound on it on the highways.

MercedesFTW

Throw on some legit snow tires, and don't be stupid, you should be fine with the C55.

It's all in the tire.

TopGun32

Used 335

hands down!

simple SSTT piggy.. very modest boost and simplet to install..

remove some exhaust restrictions, while maintaining stock mufflers (delete 2nd cats and resonator)

and add a Front mounted intercooler...

you will be trapping just as much as the C55, 6 gears auto or manual, RWD and if you need more power.. plenty of other piggy back to choose from.

There a handful of 335's that are monsters.. for the most part.. most are just Piggy backs with some mild mods.

jmlinmn

Interesting. Can you provide any links to where I might find more information about the mods you're suggesting? However, I generally am averse to modding cars.

plug1

For the sole convenience of being able to drive "normal" in the winter months, I would vote for an S4.

I'm from CO and have owned two B5 Audi's...I even got around just fine on all-seasons in the S4 I owned.

All valid points posted above. I like all three of the cars you listed, but....practicality wins over power/styling everyday of the week.

Both the C55 and M3 look great and perform well, but if owning one is going to keep you from running an errand during a bad winter storm...where in the S4 you wouldn't blink an eye, then the S4 it is. (this point is voided if you have a different capable winter vehicle)

That being said though, the "tiptronic" in the S4 is horrible compared to the AMG auto tranny. So I'd stick with a 6 speed and tell your wife to deal with it.

Fifth Ring

I went from an A6 2.7T to my C32.

> Interior in the Audi is much nicer and more impressive than the Benz. The A4-based cars are less pretty inside than the A6, but overall Audi is recognized for having great interiors. If you're interested in "image from 60 feet" the Benz will be better. Many people still don't know or appreciate Audi; so if you care about that sort of thing...

> Quality is a toss up. They both break and are expensive to fix. Get warranty.

> C32/C55 does look virtually identical to much less expensive C class cars. A few visual mods (grill, wheels) can help. S4 looks a little more distinctive.

> A C55 on good winter tires will get around about as well as an Audi quattro with all season tires in most situations. Put both at the bottom of a slick hill, however, and the S4 will get to the top with less drama. An Audi quattro with good winter tires is a four-seat snowmobile. When it snows, I park my C32 and hop in my Audi TT roadster. I have winter tires for the C32, but the TT is my snowmobile.

> Transmission on the C55 will be better than the tiptronic. Better shifts by far.

Given that you have multiple cars, try to cover all your needs without too much overlap. You have your fun, handling car for the lovely days of Spring and Summer. I'd buy the S4. Or maybe find a nicely kept RS6???

plug1

You really think so?

I couldn't get my B5 S4 on all-seasons with ESP turned "on" to spin out if I wanted to, even in the worst conditions. I lived in Colorado Springs, so the hills were plenty.

Granted, I've not driven a C55 with snow tires...but I don't see how any RWD with a stability program and snows could compare to AWD, ESP and all-seasons.

Fifth Ring

I qualified it heavily. Comparable in most conditions and not when ultimate grip is needed. Once you're underway, the ESP on the Benz is going to do the same thing as the ESP on the Audi -- it's going to grab your brakes and attempt to set things right. ESP works of the brakes and doesn't know you are AWD. Now if you want to power around a turn, being able to use all four wheels will give you more gusto. It's physics. If you have four contact patches, and four of them are applying force, you're going to have more traction than if you have only two contact patches, all other things being equal.

RJHerrmann

Ahh.. tracked this over from the MNAudi forum, (SlammedA4) here.

intellilogic

BMW sucks, I hate them with a passion, so they are out. I would say S4, its more versatile, without quattro you are going to notice when the first raindrop hits the ground. for the price range, S4 is going to be cheaper, you could probably go for 05.5 or 06, with the quads, facelift and some new toys.

GDawgC220

Sorry, threadjack. Love the USP!