Oil question?
12-20-2007, 02:49 PM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: California, USA
Posts: 9,137
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Also, if Mobil was so bad, then why is it recommended by Mercedes, BMW, and almost every luxury and high performance model brands 
Mercedes even recommends it on their $450k SLR
I also see them being recommended on F1 cars
Mercedes even recommends it on their $450k SLR
I also see them being recommended on F1 cars
12-20-2007, 02:51 PM
#27
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ID/RI
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fj-60 Land Cruiser
12-20-2007, 06:13 PM
#28
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: MILFORD,CT
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
E36M3 race car/Ferrari F355 GTS/1973 Mini 1275GT/Fiat Abarth/ML63/SLK55
the prob is SM rated oils. these may be fine for regular duty engines but not for highly stressed or loaded engines. levels of ZDDp and phosphorous are <1000 ppm. all mobil 1 oils are SM, save 15w50. 15w50 has SG level additives and is so touted on the mobil site.
my jeep calls for 5w20 so i'll use that but redline synthetic. ferrari gets the mobil 1 drained and replaced with redline 5w40 next spring.
even if you don't track your car what this may mean is that the additive packege will deplete sooner for SM oil. this whole issue is relatively new.........IE the mobil 1 you buy now is different than early 2006.
12-20-2007, 06:15 PM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
12-20-2007, 06:18 PM
#30
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: MILFORD,CT
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
E36M3 race car/Ferrari F355 GTS/1973 Mini 1275GT/Fiat Abarth/ML63/SLK55
mobil had a fantastic 0w30 but was discontinued some time ago. i ran it in my honda s2000.
apparently it was the same stuff used in nascar.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...cing_0W-30.asp
i should have bought a few cases when i had the chance.
apparently it was the same stuff used in nascar.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...cing_0W-30.asp
i should have bought a few cases when i had the chance.
12-21-2007, 12:15 AM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Miami Dade, FL
Posts: 1,728
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
10 Posts
C63
guys in mho stay away from mobile 1 with the driving we do on this forum. Mobile is going with the flow ...its not what they were sometime ago. look at the atricles the proof is in the pudding.
12-21-2007, 12:29 AM
#33
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Keep in mind not all AMG or higher HP Benz drive their cars hard....some do
12-21-2007, 12:37 AM
#34
AMSoil 5w40 European all the way. My SA is even a dealer for it.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/afl.aspx
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/afl.aspx
make sure that whatever you run is rated specifically for our engine... the only 2 that i know of are AMSOIL and MOBIL1...both European synthetic
12-21-2007, 02:02 AM
#35
MBWorld Fanatic!
The links way up further in this string suggest a minimum of 1200 ppm each for zinc and phosphorus. Here's a link to a Mobil 1 table that shows Phosphorus content for all the Mobil 1 lines:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
Only a couple of their products make the grade.
One of them is Mobil 1 extended performance 15W-50 (which by the way is the SM grade that members above were recommending that we stay away from), and it has 1200 ppm phosphorus.
The other two are both designed for motorcycles.
and here's a comment of interest from the Mobil 1 Q&A section:
For older, flat tappet engines where wear may be more of a concern, we offer a number of oil products which are higher in phosphorus than API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oils. These include Mobil 1 15W-50, Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50 (1200 ppm phosphorus), Mobil 1 0W-40 (1,000 ppm) and Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-30 and 10W-40 (1000 ppm). For all newer engines and flat tappet engines in normal service, API SM/ISLAC GF-4 oils are preferred for better fuel economy and for the protection of catalytic systems with lower phosphorous (800 ppm).
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
Only a couple of their products make the grade.
One of them is Mobil 1 extended performance 15W-50 (which by the way is the SM grade that members above were recommending that we stay away from), and it has 1200 ppm phosphorus.
The other two are both designed for motorcycles.
and here's a comment of interest from the Mobil 1 Q&A section:
For older, flat tappet engines where wear may be more of a concern, we offer a number of oil products which are higher in phosphorus than API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oils. These include Mobil 1 15W-50, Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50 (1200 ppm phosphorus), Mobil 1 0W-40 (1,000 ppm) and Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-30 and 10W-40 (1000 ppm). For all newer engines and flat tappet engines in normal service, API SM/ISLAC GF-4 oils are preferred for better fuel economy and for the protection of catalytic systems with lower phosphorous (800 ppm).
Last edited by zcct04; 12-21-2007 at 02:37 AM.
12-21-2007, 02:55 AM
#36
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: California, USA
Posts: 9,137
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
The links way up further in this string suggest a minimum of 1200 ppm each for zinc and phosphorus. Here's a link to a Mobil 1 table that shows Phosphorus content for all the Mobil 1 lines:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
Only a couple of their products make the grade.
One of them is Mobil 1 extended performance 15W-50 (which by the way is the SM grade that members above were recommending that we stay away from), and it has 1200 ppm phosphorus.
The other two are both designed for motorcycles.
and here's a comment of interest from the Mobil 1 Q&A section:
For older, flat tappet engines where wear may be more of a concern, we offer a number of oil products which are higher in phosphorus than API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oils. These include Mobil 1 15W-50, Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50 (1200 ppm phosphorus), Mobil 1 0W-40 (1,000 ppm) and Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-30 and 10W-40 (1000 ppm). For all newer engines and flat tappet engines in normal service, API SM/ISLAC GF-4 oils are preferred for better fuel economy and for the protection of catalytic systems with lower phosphorous (800 ppm).
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
Only a couple of their products make the grade.
One of them is Mobil 1 extended performance 15W-50 (which by the way is the SM grade that members above were recommending that we stay away from), and it has 1200 ppm phosphorus.
The other two are both designed for motorcycles.
and here's a comment of interest from the Mobil 1 Q&A section:
For older, flat tappet engines where wear may be more of a concern, we offer a number of oil products which are higher in phosphorus than API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oils. These include Mobil 1 15W-50, Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50 (1200 ppm phosphorus), Mobil 1 0W-40 (1,000 ppm) and Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-30 and 10W-40 (1000 ppm). For all newer engines and flat tappet engines in normal service, API SM/ISLAC GF-4 oils are preferred for better fuel economy and for the protection of catalytic systems with lower phosphorous (800 ppm).
It helps sort out all those different kinds of oils.
12-21-2007, 06:38 AM
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: MILFORD,CT
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
E36M3 race car/Ferrari F355 GTS/1973 Mini 1275GT/Fiat Abarth/ML63/SLK55
zcct04- i don't see anyone saying stay away from 15w50. in fact, over summer this yr for track days i ran 2 quarts 15w15 mixed in with the 0w40.
my fix is simple.
1 q of royal purple max cycle 10w40 zinc 1222, phosphorous 4085
1 q ----------------------- 20w50 -----3907 ------------ 1458
5 q mobil 1----------------- 0w40 -----1000 (?)---------- 1000
avg will be----------------- 5w40 ----- 1447 ------------ 1506
my fix is simple.
1 q of royal purple max cycle 10w40 zinc 1222, phosphorous 4085
1 q ----------------------- 20w50 -----3907 ------------ 1458
5 q mobil 1----------------- 0w40 -----1000 (?)---------- 1000
avg will be----------------- 5w40 ----- 1447 ------------ 1506
12-22-2007, 02:01 AM
#38
MBWorld Fanatic!
AWDman,
Sorry if my post wasn't clear. You're right - nobody has bashed the 15w50 stuff. My comment was that the 15w50 is an SM rated oil, and posts above (see 12/2) were dissing all SM grades:
"Stay away from 0 weight oils! these oil are SM rated oils!. The reason we went to this oil was the goverment and every tree hugger in california found out that if you reduced the sulfer and some other key stuff by 50% in the oil the car is more "efficient" at start up. However th oil is not as good as the SL rated oils. Things have gotten soooo bad with engine failers with this oil that the goverment has given all the heavy machinery companys (peterbuilt,detroit diesle) ect and extension on using sm rated oils till 2010 or until they figuere something out . Mobil has a (refomulated) oil which is crap its a sm oil!"
Two things I've not figured out:
Sorry if my post wasn't clear. You're right - nobody has bashed the 15w50 stuff. My comment was that the 15w50 is an SM rated oil, and posts above (see 12/2) were dissing all SM grades:
"Stay away from 0 weight oils! these oil are SM rated oils!. The reason we went to this oil was the goverment and every tree hugger in california found out that if you reduced the sulfer and some other key stuff by 50% in the oil the car is more "efficient" at start up. However th oil is not as good as the SL rated oils. Things have gotten soooo bad with engine failers with this oil that the goverment has given all the heavy machinery companys (peterbuilt,detroit diesle) ect and extension on using sm rated oils till 2010 or until they figuere something out . Mobil has a (refomulated) oil which is crap its a sm oil!"
Two things I've not figured out:
The discussions about high failure rates seem to constantly reference "flat tappet" engines. Are ours using flat tappets?
Also, the bulk of the problems seem to be linked to the break-in period, and there are implications that some of the sulfur and phosphorus gets bedded into the wear surfaces and stays with the engine for a long time. Is it reasonable to conclude that we need 1,200 ppm of these materials in a new ending but need less once past the breakin?
Also, the bulk of the problems seem to be linked to the break-in period, and there are implications that some of the sulfur and phosphorus gets bedded into the wear surfaces and stays with the engine for a long time. Is it reasonable to conclude that we need 1,200 ppm of these materials in a new ending but need less once past the breakin?
