bud4ya

How did yours manage to get richer with just the pulley . I thought for it would be leaner by adding the pulley?

Is it just all the variables with the hand made engines and different pulleys?


Thanks

mustang281man

im not forsure by what you mean to get richer with just the pulley? it gets richer as rpm and boost increases which is what is does from the factory. the factory computer will compensate by seeing more air getting pulled into the engine it needs to add a little more fuel but it can only do it to a certian extent on its own. eventually you should go with a tune. on my blown fox body im running 10.9-11.0 afr due to the fact im still running a stock block thats good for around 500 hp at the crank and im making around 650 hp at the crank. with the richer af mixture it keeps detonation down because detonation = destroyed motor. my c32 will be getting tuned here shortly though due to a few more mods.

bud4ya

So say a stock C32 is at 12/1. Your numbers at the begining of the pull went from 12/1 to 12/8 which was leaner than with the stock pulleys. But as you got into the throttle the mixture was running richer than your stock setup? I thought even with WOT the A/F would still be leaner than the stock setup even though the car is trying to make up for it. So in your case your at low RPM's you were running a bit leaner over stock and as the RPM's rose your car was running richer than the stock setup?

Thanks

c32used

Guys.....if tune weren't really needed why are there so many big tuners into tuning MBs then? Money?? On our cars there are many members just running the pulley with good AFR but the reality is I can't see a reason why a tune shouldn't be needed after a pulley upgrade...the boost is being increased by 4 PSI. Do you guys honestly think our ECU will compensate correctly without a tune? I have spoken to tuners and all agree that a tune should be done if upgrading the pullies...if you install headers is the only time they have said that a tune is not needed. Plus a tune unlocks more HP/TQ.

MRAMG1

Okay c32used in order.

1. YES, its MORE money for them IMHO
2. YES, The stock ECU has enough range to compensate.
3. NO, The tuners I have spoken with, DO NOT tell me that a tune is a must.
4. YES, headers, or other addtional mods DO require a tune, to get the most out of them. Otherwise headers probably WILL NOT help noticably
5. YES, A tune WILL unlock MORE HP/TQ

Keep in mind c32, the return on investment is TOO small for me to be interested. HOWEVER LET just made a tune reasonable, and I am HIGHLY thinking of it now, SOLELY BECAUSE OF LET affordable/reasonable price.

See yeah

c32used

I highly agree on one magor thing overall and that is PRICE that some tuners are asking for not much of a big addon in HP/TQ....hey everyone is entitled to their opinions and though apparently the Tuners we each talked to are different in opinions then one thing will continue and that's this debate will remain unanswered.

MRAMG1

Hey c32 used:

Look back at post #12. THAT is REAL data proving that the A/F ratios are FINE with NO TUNE. Hence NO MORE debate.

There are TWO people on this board that I wish would come forward and print their info, but I will NOT speak for them, or use their names out of respect.

All I can say for now is IF you want every last HP out of your car, than YES tune it. If you are happy, like me with 31 more HP shown on my G-tech data logger, then NO it is not or EVER required.

See yeah

Code3 Performance

I agree with MRAMG1 completely.

Tuning on an MB is all about the money. Tunes are simply not needed for most C32/SRT6 owners running a pulley only. The MB ECU is highly adaptive, and has more than enough headroom to compensate for the additional fuel needed by any pulley on the market. This has been a known fact for years. The only reason tuned cars feel faster to their owners is because their wallets are a lot lighter...We have a new pulley coming out shortly, and never once did we look at a dyno sheet and think we needed additional tuning (and its making more power than most pulleys). In fact, we are amazed at how good the MB ECU is in this regard.

http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/...ad.php?t=22396

If you get to a point where you actually need a tune for a specific reason, check out InMotion. Many SRT6 owners are very happy with them, and the cost cant be beat. Plus, InMotion will make changes to the tune as your needs change. They will also provide multiple chips with different tunes on them. Need a DD chip, done. Need a track tune, done. Their chips range from $300-500.

MRAMG1

Thanks Brandon, you like your products are TOP Notch.

See yeah

mustang281man

but you cant say that a c32 runs 12 to 1 stock because it is still going to change throughout the rpm range and temp, humidity, altitude everything comes into play in tuning a car. thats what your 02 sensors are there for to let the ecm know how the car is running. it will always run leaner at the begining of the pull because you are just cruising then you stab the gas and it sees that it needs to add more fuel so as the run continues more fuel is added and the afr goes down. hope someone can halfway understand what im trying to say. brett

bud4ya

I understand

Basically when you are wide open throttle the car is going to go to a richer mix whether you have stock pulleys or aftermarket pulleys. The mix will just not be as rich with aftermarket pulleys. The ECU will make up for some of the extra fuel needed at wot but not all of it.

What was your A/F in cruising mod when you were not wot? I am assuming it is still in safe range. Reason I ask is I would assume most of the miles put on the car would be in the cruising mod which seems to be the leanest cond the car will be in.


Thanks Brett

FrankW

my guess would be lean when crusing while the supercharger is not disengaged since the pulley increases the speed of the charger which pumps more air in.

TopGun32

not sure if you guys missed Brandon's post..

I'll give you a hint...

smaller kompressor pulley!!!!

you guys need to check out the SRT-6 forum.

FrankW

that's equally as changing the crank pulley. with the electro magnetic clutch in place I would much rather run larger crank pulley instead of altering the clutch. If there's no such issue with gadget clutch then smaller supercharger pulley is definitely a since it is easier to change without changing other pulley.

mustang281man

your good thats pretty much exactly what i was saying. most car will cruise around 14-17:1 afr due to the fact that there is no load on the engine and it doesnt need that much fuel to keep it going down the road. but once you start to get into the gas it starts to add some more fuel do to the increased load. i didnt pay any attention to my afr while cruising on the dyno

bud4ya

Thanks for the education. I now fulley understand. No I have to learn about this SC pulley I just read about for $600. From what I can see it is just another pulley that you change rather than the crank pulley I guess. What worried me was this clutch issue someone spoke about earlier. Guess I will just have to keep reading on it till I get it. Sounds like a cheap mod if it is safe or as safe as changing the crank pulley. Wonder if it makes as much HP/TQ that a crank pulley upgrade would give you?

Thanks Brett

mdncn2762

Quick question regarding the ECU. If were to take a tuned (powerchips) ECU out of car A and put it in car B (no ECU tune but with the exact same mods) would it work? Its not VIN specific is it?
Thanks

MRAMG1

According to One of the BEST sorces on this board, they have informed me that there are 4 different models of ECU's that our toys use. If you happened to have the same model car, than the obvious answer is YES. If it was a diferrnet one, well, you get the point.

See yeah

mdncn2762

Thank You sir,
I just received a supposedly tuned (powerchips) ECU out of a salvaged (totalled) 2002 C32 for $100.00. Everything seems to be in order with it. Its tuned for headers and pullies which I have on my vehicle. How do you think I should proceed with this? Throw it in and hope for the best or ?????? It is PN A031 545 18 32
Thanks

MRAMG1

Hey, contact LET, they are the ones that informed me about the ECU's and are some REALLY great guys. They won't steer you wrong my friend.

See yeah

MRAMG1

Okay guys:

Final tally:

10 with tunes
10 WITHOUT tunes.

Pretty much we can say its a 50/50 split.

Anyway, It can be SAFELY said, that a tune is NOT required for a simple pulley swap. I REALLY appreciate EVERYONE's advice, info, and help with this thread. That being said CASE CLOSED!

THANKS

See yeah

Update: IT IS A 50/50 SPLIT now.

c32used

I am not an expert but I doubt it will work properly cause Tunes are car specific but who knows I suggest as MrAMG1 and ask LET.

c32used

There are thousands of members with pulleys and with or without a Tune and no Tuners haven't chimed in at all so how is it finalized? People use your own judgement on this....I know people running just the pulleis and all seems fine. But if you read what he claims that our ECU can learn who knows maybe it can maybe not...let research inform you. Keep in mind that a Tune wrings out more HP and TQ. I know the Tunes are not cheap but eventual hey will be...the stronghold on the steeper prices are getting loosened.

mdncn2762

I just tried it and it doesnt work. Oh well.

MRAMG1

Hey c32used:

I am NOT claiming it, Tuners like Code3, and others on this board HAVE claimed it for me. I am AGREEING with them, that there is enough head room left in our ECU's for a simple pulley swap. Did you read the entire thread?

YES, I would have LOVED to have had other tuners chime in, but alas no luck. I will not try and persuade them, as I am sure they have their own reasons. Which I will not get into as this was a simple poll as to what works, and what doesn't.

I am simply stateing that a tune is NOT required by the evidence form this post. Evidence like the A/F ratios that were stated above from REAL data logging.

YES, if you want every last HP, like some do, then get it tuned. For me, I will save the money and sleep VERY well at night.

See yeah