A turning point in Mercedes tuning...Performance Supercharger Pulley
04-30-2008, 12:05 PM
#351
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2003 C32 AMG, 2003 E39 M5
Is there any cutting that needs to be done or is this truely just a bolt on thing? Reason I ask is because of warranty purposes. It would be nice to have something that just pops off and the stocker pops back in.
04-30-2008, 12:20 PM
#352
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That said, Brandon will verify this when he gets back.
04-30-2008, 05:34 PM
#355
WOW I was ready for a needs wings type set up, I was not ready for that at all. I love that someone Is finally paving their own way and thinking outside of the boxs. It is refreshing, and that is an understatement, great work brandon.
04-30-2008, 09:56 PM
#356
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2003 C32 AMG; 2005 Ducati 749D
04-30-2008, 11:54 PM
#358
I'm pretty sure he's going to start a new thread about the intake mod with new images, but what the hell - here's the photos of the intake he sent me...... (dyno graphs were posted earlier in this thread - I'm sure there are more to follow directly from Brandon)
Intake Details:
- Made out of Phenolic
- Foam filter element is pre-oiled and supplied by UNI. It is also replaceable if needed.
- UNI signed off on the design.
- This piece replaces the backplate on the stock intake in about 5 minutes.
- stock car gains 5hp/5tq across the powerband,
- with the Code 3 supercharger pulley, expect gains of 13hp/13tq across powerband. Expect the same gains on crank pulley cars as well.
- Cruising IATs are not affected. Full boost IATs rise about 5-7°. This is pretty negligible considering the power and throttle response in return.
About the pictures:
- The bolts pictured are not the final bolts.
- The production piece will be thinner (1/2" height instead of the pictured 3/4").
Here's the view of the intake mod closest to the firewall:
Here's the view if you were looking at the intake from the front of the engine:
Here's the view if you were looking through the driver's side intake:
Intake Details:
- Made out of Phenolic
- Foam filter element is pre-oiled and supplied by UNI. It is also replaceable if needed.
- UNI signed off on the design.
- This piece replaces the backplate on the stock intake in about 5 minutes.
- stock car gains 5hp/5tq across the powerband,
- with the Code 3 supercharger pulley, expect gains of 13hp/13tq across powerband. Expect the same gains on crank pulley cars as well.
- Cruising IATs are not affected. Full boost IATs rise about 5-7°. This is pretty negligible considering the power and throttle response in return.
About the pictures:
- The bolts pictured are not the final bolts.
- The production piece will be thinner (1/2" height instead of the pictured 3/4").
Here's the view of the intake mod closest to the firewall:
Here's the view if you were looking at the intake from the front of the engine:
Here's the view if you were looking through the driver's side intake:
I wonder the diameter compared to a SL55 Y splitter? Since they look similar...I ask cause according to threads posted here the SL55 Y splitter doesn't seem to create much or any hp/tq even depending certain setups
05-01-2008, 12:38 AM
#359
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2002 SLK 32 AMG
sorry guys kinda confused. so the new intake is using the back side of the stock y pipe? what if i have the sl 55 y pipe, will it work with that or do i have to change it back to stock??
05-01-2008, 09:52 AM
#360
Super Member
The major difference between the SL55 Y splitter and this intake modification is that this intake modification creates an additional air input to the system. On the OE and SL55 Y splitter, you have air entering via 2 routes (left and right airboxes). On this mod, you have 3 routes - left and right airboxes and at the junction.
05-01-2008, 10:20 AM
#361
The general consensus is that the SL55 Y splitter produces minimal gains on a stock car. However, when boost is increased (whether that be via a larger crank pulley or smaller supercharger pulley), then you see modest gains.
The major difference between the SL55 Y splitter and this intake modification is that this intake modification creates an additional air input to the system. On the OE and SL55 Y splitter, you have air entering via 2 routes (left and right airboxes). On this mod, you have 3 routes - left and right airboxes and at the junction.
The major difference between the SL55 Y splitter and this intake modification is that this intake modification creates an additional air input to the system. On the OE and SL55 Y splitter, you have air entering via 2 routes (left and right airboxes). On this mod, you have 3 routes - left and right airboxes and at the junction.
But aren't you sucking in hot air then from the engine bay?Don't recall seeing it on C3P.COM what is price just for intake only?
05-01-2008, 10:49 AM
#362
Super Member
Originally Posted by amgstyle
sorry guys kinda confused. so the new intake is using the back side of the stock y pipe? what if i have the sl 55 y pipe, will it work with that or do i have to change it back to stock??
Originally Posted by c32used
Ok I understand so the side with the filter goes up I wasn't thinking But aren't you sucking in hot air then from the engine bay?
But aren't you sucking in hot air then from the engine bay?"- Cruising IATs are not affected. Full boost IATs rise about 5-7°. This is pretty negligible considering the power and throttle response in return."
Originally Posted by c32used
Don't recall seeing it on C3P.COM what is price just for intake only?
05-01-2008, 11:02 AM
#363
Negative. AFAIK, the SL55 y pipe does not have a plate at the back so it can't be retrofitted.
Yes, by virtue of its location, hot(ter) air is taken in through the modification. The important question is whether this is detrimental. As stated in the post with the photos,
"- Cruising IATs are not affected. Full boost IATs rise about 5-7°. This is pretty negligible considering the power and throttle response in return."
As per the CP3 website, Intake alone is $150. Packaged with the smaller supercharger pulley, it's $100.
Yes, by virtue of its location, hot(ter) air is taken in through the modification. The important question is whether this is detrimental. As stated in the post with the photos,
"- Cruising IATs are not affected. Full boost IATs rise about 5-7°. This is pretty negligible considering the power and throttle response in return."
As per the CP3 website, Intake alone is $150. Packaged with the smaller supercharger pulley, it's $100.
If only C3P can dyno test this with a cranked pullied car with a heat exchanger...Won't a Tune become more necessary due to more mass air coming in?
Last edited by c32used; 05-01-2008 at 11:05 AM.
05-01-2008, 11:59 AM
#364
Super Member
Originally Posted by c32used
So due to additional heat(which I didn't notice when I read your post first time) a heat exchanger would benefit this setup right? I am already there...
Originally Posted by c32used
....I wonder if something couuld be added to the top to route outside air into it...
With the disclaimer that I am no expert on the subject (and given previous threads on this subject on MBWorld and the SRT-6 forum), I think it's safe to say that the 'physics' of the air flow is another important aspect in determining efficiency and resultant gains. i.e. too much multi-directional air flow is probably not good. I seem to remember Vadim providing some important insights into this some time ago.
Originally Posted by c32used
If only C3P can dyno test this with a cranked pullied car with a heat exchanger...Won't a Tune become more necessary due to more mass air coming in?
05-01-2008, 02:21 PM
#365
Yes, a heat exchanger would certainly be of benefit especially after multiple WOT runs or whenever IATs are raised to 'implausible' limits. That's not surprising given that our stock setup seems to be fine for increased air intake to a certain point. The larger heat exchanger definitely makes a difference with persistent 'flogging' of stock AND cars with larger crank pulleys / smaller supercharger pulleys.
Good question! I think gaining any further access to the stock intake will obviously involve a substantially invasive modification (and ultimately destructive to the stock piece). That would be one deterrent.
With the disclaimer that I am no expert on the subject (and given previous threads on this subject on MBWorld and the SRT-6 forum), I think it's safe to say that the 'physics' of the air flow is another important aspect in determining efficiency and resultant gains. i.e. too much multi-directional air flow is probably not good. I seem to remember Vadim providing some important insights into this some time ago.
Another good question - I wish I could answer it definitively for you! Brandon will be back soon enough to answer specifics. As he alluded to in a previous post - he is definitely testing this smaller pulley with a car that has a larger crank pulley. I cautiously predict that he'll have data (dyno and datalogging) on this by the time he gets back.
Good question! I think gaining any further access to the stock intake will obviously involve a substantially invasive modification (and ultimately destructive to the stock piece). That would be one deterrent.
With the disclaimer that I am no expert on the subject (and given previous threads on this subject on MBWorld and the SRT-6 forum), I think it's safe to say that the 'physics' of the air flow is another important aspect in determining efficiency and resultant gains. i.e. too much multi-directional air flow is probably not good. I seem to remember Vadim providing some important insights into this some time ago.
Another good question - I wish I could answer it definitively for you! Brandon will be back soon enough to answer specifics. As he alluded to in a previous post - he is definitely testing this smaller pulley with a car that has a larger crank pulley. I cautiously predict that he'll have data (dyno and datalogging) on this by the time he gets back.
05-01-2008, 02:28 PM
#366
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C32 AMG
Now that we have the parts, let me restate my proposal:
THE FIFTH RING CHALLENGE:
(1) Take a BONE STOCK C32 to a drag strip with professional timing devices. Stock filters, stock intake, stock ECU, street tires, stock everything. Permissible mods: NONE.
(2) Do 0-60, 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile runs. Do at least three and average them. No brake rev, no tricks. Just mash the pedal and go straight.
(3) Drive to a safe place and install the pulley, and just the pulley.
(4) Proceed immediately to the starting line at the same track with the same driver and repeat "(2)" above exactly.
(5) Post the results.
I do not care about dyno numbers, boost levels or IAT.
I don't care what the final 0-60, 1/8 or 14 times are -- I care about the improvement.
I can't give any meaning to a test performed on a car that has other performance mods on it.
Basic science. A baseline followed by a change in ONE variable.
Show me some numbers and some of my money is yours.
THE FIFTH RING CHALLENGE:
(1) Take a BONE STOCK C32 to a drag strip with professional timing devices. Stock filters, stock intake, stock ECU, street tires, stock everything. Permissible mods: NONE.
(2) Do 0-60, 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile runs. Do at least three and average them. No brake rev, no tricks. Just mash the pedal and go straight.
(3) Drive to a safe place and install the pulley, and just the pulley.
(4) Proceed immediately to the starting line at the same track with the same driver and repeat "(2)" above exactly.
(5) Post the results.
I do not care about dyno numbers, boost levels or IAT.
I don't care what the final 0-60, 1/8 or 14 times are -- I care about the improvement.
I can't give any meaning to a test performed on a car that has other performance mods on it.
Basic science. A baseline followed by a change in ONE variable.
Show me some numbers and some of my money is yours.
Last edited by Fifth Ring; 05-01-2008 at 06:16 PM.
05-01-2008, 02:57 PM
#367
I think we could also see the same, if not better gains by simply 'opening up' our existing inlets and air boxes to a larger diameter to handle more airflow with less restriction. In theory simple mods like using smooth duct vs flexible (ribbed) tubing, eliminating sharp turns in the air stream that cause back pressure and restrict air movement would help.
05-01-2008, 03:48 PM
#368
MBWorld Fanatic!
Now that we have the parts, let me restate my proposal:
(1) Take a BONE STOCK C32 to a drag strip with professional timing devices. Stock filters, stock intake, stock ECU, street tires, stock everything. Permissible mods: NONE.
(2) Do 0-60, 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile runs. Do at least three and average them. No brake rev, no tricks. Just mash the pedal and go straight.
(3) Drive to a safe place and install the pulley, and just the pulley.
(4) Proceed immediately to the starting line at the same track with the same driver and repeat "(2)" above exactly.
(5) Post the results.
I do not care about dyno numbers, boost levels or IAT.
I don't care what the final 0-60, 1/8 or 14 times are -- I care about the improvement.
I can't give any meaning to a test performed on a car that has other performance mods on it.
Basic science. A baseline followed by a change in ONE variable.
Show me some numbers and some of my money is yours.
(1) Take a BONE STOCK C32 to a drag strip with professional timing devices. Stock filters, stock intake, stock ECU, street tires, stock everything. Permissible mods: NONE.
(2) Do 0-60, 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile runs. Do at least three and average them. No brake rev, no tricks. Just mash the pedal and go straight.
(3) Drive to a safe place and install the pulley, and just the pulley.
(4) Proceed immediately to the starting line at the same track with the same driver and repeat "(2)" above exactly.
(5) Post the results.
I do not care about dyno numbers, boost levels or IAT.
I don't care what the final 0-60, 1/8 or 14 times are -- I care about the improvement.
I can't give any meaning to a test performed on a car that has other performance mods on it.
Basic science. A baseline followed by a change in ONE variable.
Show me some numbers and some of my money is yours.
05-01-2008, 04:52 PM
#370
If there is a brave soul out there that would be willing to cut their hood and make a couple modifications to it, it sure can be done. I would throw a more efficient filter in place of the foam filter though. Older Trans Am's had the shaker hood and it's inlet faced back toward the windshield with the theory that it would bring in cooler are at a point where aerodynamically there was a low pressure point.
I think we could also see the same, if not better gains by simply 'opening up' our existing inlets and air boxes to a larger diameter to handle more airflow with less restriction. In theory simple mods like using smooth duct vs flexible (ribbed) tubing, eliminating sharp turns in the air stream that cause back pressure and restrict air movement would help.
I think we could also see the same, if not better gains by simply 'opening up' our existing inlets and air boxes to a larger diameter to handle more airflow with less restriction. In theory simple mods like using smooth duct vs flexible (ribbed) tubing, eliminating sharp turns in the air stream that cause back pressure and restrict air movement would help.
Its hard to tear into such a beautiful car...but if we all get a plan together I
am willing to put up my car and some money to find a sensible solution...
05-01-2008, 04:54 PM
#371
05-01-2008, 05:25 PM
#372
MBWorld Fanatic!
05-01-2008, 05:26 PM
#373
Just thinking out loud here but maybe a hood from a part out (maniac32 is doing this up in the North West) would be a good starting point??
05-01-2008, 06:09 PM
#375
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C32 AMG
(I'm in such a cynical mood!)
Last edited by Fifth Ring; 05-01-2008 at 06:15 PM.
