Just Dyno'ed my C55
05-06-2008, 10:23 PM
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C55,SL55,C63
Just Dyno'ed my C55
Today I stoped in at Dyno-Comp To talk about some Renntech parts and ended up doing a dyno run on there "Dyno Dynamics" AWD Dynomometer (was told this was much more accurate than a "Dyno-jet") Mods on my car are just K&N filters, and resinator delete. I put down 291.4 RWHP and 301 foot lbs of torque. All in all i thought i would be getting more power than that. The Renntech guy thought i would be getting less and was surprised that I was able to get 291RWHP. Just thought with other posts I would be in the 300's, But i guess it comes down to the dyno. Still with 291HP Im still able to run 13.2 in the 1/4 mile .jpg)
Last edited by hooleyboy; 05-06-2008 at 10:25 PM.
05-06-2008, 10:38 PM
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I was talking to the Renntech guy there and was told the ECU flash Renntech is done in house via emailed file and diagnostic port upload he told me if only takes about an hour. seems better than sending my ECU out to get flashed. The CF airbox was very nice looking. I know some people bash it on here but i thought i looked and felt killer. Al I know is I'm going to deck this car out after a very close race with a SRT10 pick-up today.
05-06-2008, 10:55 PM
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Well done....
ya, the two ways to tune are pulling the ecu and flashing (10 minutes) or plugging into the diag port (1 hour).
Will be cool to see what you put down after your tune!
ya, the two ways to tune are pulling the ecu and flashing (10 minutes) or plugging into the diag port (1 hour).
Will be cool to see what you put down after your tune!
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05-07-2008, 03:08 AM
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What kind of numbers would i have gotten if i was on a dyno-jet? also they asked me if i had an ECU tune because the numbers seemed high for thier kind of dyno (load dyno). So how would i know if the last owner had an ECU tune in my car I dont want to got out and see if i can go over 155mph to find out.
Last edited by hooleyboy; 05-07-2008 at 03:19 AM.
05-07-2008, 03:20 AM
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
nice numbers, you probably would've hit 300 if you didnt do the reasonator delete. You lose some hp when you do that due to the lost of back pressure, especially on NA cars.
05-07-2008, 04:16 AM
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^^^ this just does not make sense to me?
Headers are designed to be free flowing and relieve back pressure. Back pressure robs you of HP. Exhaust systems rob you of HP thats why drag racers disconnect there exhaust...Example.... "Let exhaust exit more easily - If air resistance or back-pressure makes it hard for exhaust to exit a cylinder, it robs the engine of power. If the exhaust pipe is too small or the muffler has a lot of air resistance then this can cause back-pressure. High-performance exhaust systems use headers, big tail pipes and free-flowing mufflers to eliminate back-pressure in the exhaust system." source below
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question395.htm
You want air in and out as fast as you can. with no resistance or "Back pressure" at 2700RPM's I was already Making 300lbs of torque. I was able to sustain that to around 4700RPM's with a slight drop off at 4700-5500RPM's.
I dont want to come off sounding like you dont know what your talking about (as sometimes text posts can) we just disagree on a topic that has people on both sides of the fence.
Anyway I dont feel having a res-delete would have gotten me power that would have put me into the 300's for HP. the only thing that would have gotten me more power was if i was on a Dyno-jet and having HP added for reasons that few understand. I bet I would have been in the 310 -320hp on a dyno-jet.... from what i hear.
05-07-2008, 05:07 AM
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
^^^ this just does not make sense to me? Headers are designed to be free flowing and relieve back pressure. Back pressure robs you of HP. Exhaust systems rob you of HP thats why drag racers disconnect there exhaust...
Example.... "Let exhaust exit more easily - If air resistance or back-pressure makes it hard for exhaust to exit a cylinder, it robs the engine of power. If the exhaust pipe is too small or the muffler has a lot of air resistance then this can cause back-pressure. High-performance exhaust systems use headers, big tail pipes and free-flowing mufflers to eliminate back-pressure in the exhaust system." source below
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question395.htm
You want air in and out as fast as you can. with no resistance or "Back pressure" at 2700RPM's I was already Making 300lbs of torque. I was able to sustain that to around 4700RPM's with a slight drop off at 4700-5500RPM's.
I dont want to come off sounding like you dont know what your talking about (as sometimes text posts can) we just disagree on a topic that has people on both sides of the fence.
Anyway I dont feel having a res-delete would have gotten me power that would have put me into the 300's for HP. the only thing that would have gotten me more power was if i was on a Dyno-jet and having HP added for reasons that few understand. I bet I would have been in the 310 -320hp on a dyno-jet.... from what i hear.
Headers are designed to be free flowing and relieve back pressure. Back pressure robs you of HP. Exhaust systems rob you of HP thats why drag racers disconnect there exhaust...Example.... "Let exhaust exit more easily - If air resistance or back-pressure makes it hard for exhaust to exit a cylinder, it robs the engine of power. If the exhaust pipe is too small or the muffler has a lot of air resistance then this can cause back-pressure. High-performance exhaust systems use headers, big tail pipes and free-flowing mufflers to eliminate back-pressure in the exhaust system." source below
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question395.htm
You want air in and out as fast as you can. with no resistance or "Back pressure" at 2700RPM's I was already Making 300lbs of torque. I was able to sustain that to around 4700RPM's with a slight drop off at 4700-5500RPM's.
I dont want to come off sounding like you dont know what your talking about (as sometimes text posts can) we just disagree on a topic that has people on both sides of the fence.
Anyway I dont feel having a res-delete would have gotten me power that would have put me into the 300's for HP. the only thing that would have gotten me more power was if i was on a Dyno-jet and having HP added for reasons that few understand. I bet I would have been in the 310 -320hp on a dyno-jet.... from what i hear.
Drag cars disconnect there exhaust because there always going to be at full throttle since there racing for times.
This is where street cars and race cars are different. I assume your not always going to be driving your c55 at full throttle every time, AMG assumed this as well.
This is why they optimized the exhaust system with the cat and reasonator in mind. They used the back pressure created from the cat and reasonator to add the low to mid end torque.
You see this trick seen on lot of economy cars, hence why there exhaust system is usually around 2''-2.25.
Why do you think there no real aftermarket exhausts for the c32 and c55? Its because the stock exhaust system is already tuned really well from the factory.
Yes a larger exhaust is better for making more power out of a engine when it warrants it...ie FI or a higher end NA Build. If you lose too much back pressure, you can't maintain any kind of velocity through the system, so you lose power.
Going off the logic in your example, switching to a 3'' exhaust system should yield greater power since there's less back pressure robbing the car of its power. In real life, you'll end up losing power on a stock engine.
Just search the threads of other people that deleted there reasontor. They all talk about how they lost some mid to low end torque from stock. I agree the power difference from the reasonator delete probably wouldn't yield 300hp, but you never know. Its really easy to lose power when you mess with a finely tuned optimzed system created by AMG.
Last edited by TemjinX2; 05-07-2008 at 05:10 AM.
05-07-2008, 06:27 AM
#12
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Dyno Dynamic's have earned the nickname "Heartbreaker Dyno" on a lot of internet sites. It sounds like they typically read quite a bit lower then other dynos.
05-07-2008, 07:37 AM
#13
c55 isn't a drag car, its a road car.
Drag cars disconnect there exhaust because there always going to be at full throttle since there racing for times.
This is where street cars and race cars are different. I assume your not always going to be driving your c55 at full throttle every time, AMG assumed this as well.
This is why they optimized the exhaust system with the cat and reasonator in mind. They used the back pressure created from the cat and reasonator to add the low to mid end torque.
You see this trick seen on lot of economy cars, hence why there exhaust system is usually around 2''-2.25.
Why do you think there no real aftermarket exhausts for the c32 and c55? Its because the stock exhaust system is already tuned really well from the factory.
Yes a larger exhaust is better for making more power out of a engine when it warrants it...ie FI or a higher end NA Build. If you lose too much back pressure, you can't maintain any kind of velocity through the system, so you lose power.
Going off the logic in your example, switching to a 3'' exhaust system should yield greater power since there's less back pressure robbing the car of its power. In real life, you'll end up losing power on a stock engine.
Just search the threads of other people that deleted there reasontor. They all talk about how they lost some mid to low end torque from stock. I agree the power difference from the reasonator delete probably wouldn't yield 300hp, but you never know. Its really easy to lose power when you mess with a finely tuned optimzed system created by AMG.
Drag cars disconnect there exhaust because there always going to be at full throttle since there racing for times.
This is where street cars and race cars are different. I assume your not always going to be driving your c55 at full throttle every time, AMG assumed this as well.
This is why they optimized the exhaust system with the cat and reasonator in mind. They used the back pressure created from the cat and reasonator to add the low to mid end torque.
You see this trick seen on lot of economy cars, hence why there exhaust system is usually around 2''-2.25.
Why do you think there no real aftermarket exhausts for the c32 and c55? Its because the stock exhaust system is already tuned really well from the factory.
Yes a larger exhaust is better for making more power out of a engine when it warrants it...ie FI or a higher end NA Build. If you lose too much back pressure, you can't maintain any kind of velocity through the system, so you lose power.
Going off the logic in your example, switching to a 3'' exhaust system should yield greater power since there's less back pressure robbing the car of its power. In real life, you'll end up losing power on a stock engine.
Just search the threads of other people that deleted there reasontor. They all talk about how they lost some mid to low end torque from stock. I agree the power difference from the reasonator delete probably wouldn't yield 300hp, but you never know. Its really easy to lose power when you mess with a finely tuned optimzed system created by AMG.
There is too much confusion from what I read between right and wrong. The fact is race cars with a specific purpose are way different than a street car for how the power should be made the best overall way.
05-07-2008, 08:03 AM
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^^^ this just does not make sense to me? Headers are designed to be free flowing and relieve back pressure. Back pressure robs you of HP. Exhaust systems rob you of HP thats why drag racers disconnect there exhaust...
Example.... "Let exhaust exit more easily - If air resistance or back-pressure makes it hard for exhaust to exit a cylinder, it robs the engine of power. If the exhaust pipe is too small or the muffler has a lot of air resistance then this can cause back-pressure. High-performance exhaust systems use headers, big tail pipes and free-flowing mufflers to eliminate back-pressure in the exhaust system." source below
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question395.htm
You want air in and out as fast as you can. with no resistance or "Back pressure" at 2700RPM's I was already Making 300lbs of torque. I was able to sustain that to around 4700RPM's with a slight drop off at 4700-5500RPM's.
I dont want to come off sounding like you dont know what your talking about (as sometimes text posts can) we just disagree on a topic that has people on both sides of the fence.
Anyway I dont feel having a res-delete would have gotten me power that would have put me into the 300's for HP. the only thing that would have gotten me more power was if i was on a Dyno-jet and having HP added for reasons that few understand. I bet I would have been in the 310 -320hp on a dyno-jet.... from what i hear.
Headers are designed to be free flowing and relieve back pressure. Back pressure robs you of HP. Exhaust systems rob you of HP thats why drag racers disconnect there exhaust...Example.... "Let exhaust exit more easily - If air resistance or back-pressure makes it hard for exhaust to exit a cylinder, it robs the engine of power. If the exhaust pipe is too small or the muffler has a lot of air resistance then this can cause back-pressure. High-performance exhaust systems use headers, big tail pipes and free-flowing mufflers to eliminate back-pressure in the exhaust system." source below
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question395.htm
You want air in and out as fast as you can. with no resistance or "Back pressure" at 2700RPM's I was already Making 300lbs of torque. I was able to sustain that to around 4700RPM's with a slight drop off at 4700-5500RPM's.
I dont want to come off sounding like you dont know what your talking about (as sometimes text posts can) we just disagree on a topic that has people on both sides of the fence.
Anyway I dont feel having a res-delete would have gotten me power that would have put me into the 300's for HP. the only thing that would have gotten me more power was if i was on a Dyno-jet and having HP added for reasons that few understand. I bet I would have been in the 310 -320hp on a dyno-jet.... from what i hear.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...565&highlight=
I've heard the same sort of stuff about dyno-jet vs. mustang vs. dyno-dynamics, but I think only a couple people on these forums have actually taken their cars to different ones to test the results
05-07-2008, 08:08 AM
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05-07-2008, 09:51 AM
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man there is some dirt on this post...i dont proclaim to know it all but let me add some insight here...
dynos can be set up and configured however the operator wants. you input a number of variables and from that comes the calculation that takes into account the rollers. its not about "awd vs 2wd dynos" its about what type of dyno it is and how its set up.
furthermore, backpressure is not some power robbing thief, it is a component of a proper design...removing exhaust backpressure isnt like removing a stain, the more you get out the better off you are, thats not how it works. there is a proper amount of backpressure needed to make optimal power. a car manufacturer will walk the balance between performance and exhaust noise and implement a system in between. could there be benefits to removing a resonator, sure, but to say it hands down makes a difference or doesnt will depend on the application. removing a muffler or resonator does not always result in power gains. in fact for a lot of cars, you'll gain 1-2whp up top for 300 rpm and lose 8-12 ft/lbs 3000 rpm in the midrange. IE, no likey.
dynos can be set up and configured however the operator wants. you input a number of variables and from that comes the calculation that takes into account the rollers. its not about "awd vs 2wd dynos" its about what type of dyno it is and how its set up.
furthermore, backpressure is not some power robbing thief, it is a component of a proper design...removing exhaust backpressure isnt like removing a stain, the more you get out the better off you are, thats not how it works. there is a proper amount of backpressure needed to make optimal power. a car manufacturer will walk the balance between performance and exhaust noise and implement a system in between. could there be benefits to removing a resonator, sure, but to say it hands down makes a difference or doesnt will depend on the application. removing a muffler or resonator does not always result in power gains. in fact for a lot of cars, you'll gain 1-2whp up top for 300 rpm and lose 8-12 ft/lbs 3000 rpm in the midrange. IE, no likey.
05-07-2008, 11:11 AM
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[QUOTE=rory breaker;2809671]man there is some dirt on this post...i dont proclaim to know it all but let me add some insight here...
dynos can be set up and configured however the operator wants. you input a number of variables and from that comes the calculation that takes into account the rollers. its not about "awd vs 2wd dynos" its about what type of dyno it is and how its set up.
I agree with you on the dyno. Its all up to the operator of the dyno, even when strapping down it can make a difference. About the rwhp those # seem correct. The resonator is a straight pipe with some muffling thing around the inside but does not obstruct the pipe and just quites down the exhuast so there is no (back pressure) to lose. If interested in seeing the inside of it i can post some pics. The headers on this car can get you about 12-16 rwhp & torque so i don't understand why is there so much concern about (back pressure) without some real dyno's to prove you really do lose (hp) or (tq). Btw i have done plenty of dyno runs to see what works and what doesn't and by far the exhuast is the way to go on a C55 i don't know about the rest this is what i have tested. As a matter a fact i don,t even have the primary cats nor the resonator and the car gives me plenty of power with no losses. Hope this helps.
dynos can be set up and configured however the operator wants. you input a number of variables and from that comes the calculation that takes into account the rollers. its not about "awd vs 2wd dynos" its about what type of dyno it is and how its set up.
I agree with you on the dyno. Its all up to the operator of the dyno, even when strapping down it can make a difference. About the rwhp those # seem correct. The resonator is a straight pipe with some muffling thing around the inside but does not obstruct the pipe and just quites down the exhuast so there is no (back pressure) to lose. If interested in seeing the inside of it i can post some pics. The headers on this car can get you about 12-16 rwhp & torque so i don't understand why is there so much concern about (back pressure) without some real dyno's to prove you really do lose (hp) or (tq). Btw i have done plenty of dyno runs to see what works and what doesn't and by far the exhuast is the way to go on a C55 i don't know about the rest this is what i have tested. As a matter a fact i don,t even have the primary cats nor the resonator and the car gives me plenty of power with no losses. Hope this helps.
05-07-2008, 12:13 PM
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after doing some reading... I did see that Dyno Dynamics is called "The Heart-breaker" But all I've read said it was the best when it came to streetable HP numbers. Ive also read that Dyno-jet can yield 10-15% higher dyno numbers?, as it factors in other things to come up with its HP numbers. my car showed a 19% loss from the crank HP. Thats assuming that K&N filters yielded no HP gain. Since i didnt run a dyno before adding them its just easier to say the motor has 362hp at the crank. As for the res-delete i've never felt a loss of TQ or HP.... And being at peak torque at 3000rpm's and holding that for most of the rpm rang shows me i've not given up anything from a res-delete
05-07-2008, 12:22 PM
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2006 BMW X5 4.8is and 2005 C55 AMG
c55 isn't a drag car, its a road car.
Drag cars disconnect there exhaust because there always going to be at full throttle since there racing for times.
This is where street cars and race cars are different. I assume your not always going to be driving your c55 at full throttle every time, AMG assumed this as well.
This is why they optimized the exhaust system with the cat and reasonator in mind. They used the back pressure created from the cat and reasonator to add the low to mid end torque.
You see this trick seen on lot of economy cars, hence why there exhaust system is usually around 2''-2.25.
Why do you think there no real aftermarket exhausts for the c32 and c55? Its because the stock exhaust system is already tuned really well from the factory.
Yes a larger exhaust is better for making more power out of a engine when it warrants it...ie FI or a higher end NA Build. If you lose too much back pressure, you can't maintain any kind of velocity through the system, so you lose power.
Going off the logic in your example, switching to a 3'' exhaust system should yield greater power since there's less back pressure robbing the car of its power. In real life, you'll end up losing power on a stock engine.
Just search the threads of other people that deleted there reasontor. They all talk about how they lost some mid to low end torque from stock. I agree the power difference from the reasonator delete probably wouldn't yield 300hp, but you never know. Its really easy to lose power when you mess with a finely tuned optimzed system created by AMG.
Drag cars disconnect there exhaust because there always going to be at full throttle since there racing for times.
This is where street cars and race cars are different. I assume your not always going to be driving your c55 at full throttle every time, AMG assumed this as well.
This is why they optimized the exhaust system with the cat and reasonator in mind. They used the back pressure created from the cat and reasonator to add the low to mid end torque.
You see this trick seen on lot of economy cars, hence why there exhaust system is usually around 2''-2.25.
Why do you think there no real aftermarket exhausts for the c32 and c55? Its because the stock exhaust system is already tuned really well from the factory.
Yes a larger exhaust is better for making more power out of a engine when it warrants it...ie FI or a higher end NA Build. If you lose too much back pressure, you can't maintain any kind of velocity through the system, so you lose power.
Going off the logic in your example, switching to a 3'' exhaust system should yield greater power since there's less back pressure robbing the car of its power. In real life, you'll end up losing power on a stock engine.
Just search the threads of other people that deleted there reasontor. They all talk about how they lost some mid to low end torque from stock. I agree the power difference from the reasonator delete probably wouldn't yield 300hp, but you never know. Its really easy to lose power when you mess with a finely tuned optimzed system created by AMG.
Your just flat out wrong. I've dyno'd my car about 30 plus times on a dyno-jet with resonator on and off and secondary cats on and off. With the res off it made NO difference, however on one run though it showed a 1.5hp gain, but that means nothing. With the secondary cats off I actually gained 8hp and 12tq, but I put them back on after awhile because I didn't like the sound it made.
05-07-2008, 01:37 PM
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I don't see how a resonator is going to create any backpressure at all. It's there for sound tuning not power..
As for the dynos- I'm just going from what I heard the majority of the time when I spent an extended amount of time at a speed shop a few summers ago. I also had my turbo s2000 dyno'd at a place that had both an AWD Mustang dyno and a dyno pack. The owner of the facility told me I could have strapped my car on the dyno pack after using the mustang and yielded 30 more hp for bragging rights if I had the time.
I fully agree that how the dyno is set up also has a huge roll in everything. Even how the pull is set up can alter the numbers.
As for the dynos- I'm just going from what I heard the majority of the time when I spent an extended amount of time at a speed shop a few summers ago. I also had my turbo s2000 dyno'd at a place that had both an AWD Mustang dyno and a dyno pack. The owner of the facility told me I could have strapped my car on the dyno pack after using the mustang and yielded 30 more hp for bragging rights if I had the time.
I fully agree that how the dyno is set up also has a huge roll in everything. Even how the pull is set up can alter the numbers.
05-08-2008, 08:19 AM
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man there is some dirt on this post...i dont proclaim to know it all but let me add some insight here...
dynos can be set up and configured however the operator wants. you input a number of variables and from that comes the calculation that takes into account the rollers. its not about "awd vs 2wd dynos" its about what type of dyno it is and how its set up.
furthermore, backpressure is not some power robbing thief, it is a component of a proper design...removing exhaust backpressure isnt like removing a stain, the more you get out the better off you are, thats not how it works. there is a proper amount of backpressure needed to make optimal power. a car manufacturer will walk the balance between performance and exhaust noise and implement a system in between. could there be benefits to removing a resonator, sure, but to say it hands down makes a difference or doesnt will depend on the application. removing a muffler or resonator does not always result in power gains. in fact for a lot of cars, you'll gain 1-2whp up top for 300 rpm and lose 8-12 ft/lbs 3000 rpm in the midrange. IE, no likey.
dynos can be set up and configured however the operator wants. you input a number of variables and from that comes the calculation that takes into account the rollers. its not about "awd vs 2wd dynos" its about what type of dyno it is and how its set up.
furthermore, backpressure is not some power robbing thief, it is a component of a proper design...removing exhaust backpressure isnt like removing a stain, the more you get out the better off you are, thats not how it works. there is a proper amount of backpressure needed to make optimal power. a car manufacturer will walk the balance between performance and exhaust noise and implement a system in between. could there be benefits to removing a resonator, sure, but to say it hands down makes a difference or doesnt will depend on the application. removing a muffler or resonator does not always result in power gains. in fact for a lot of cars, you'll gain 1-2whp up top for 300 rpm and lose 8-12 ft/lbs 3000 rpm in the midrange. IE, no likey.
05-08-2008, 10:26 AM
#24
What kind of numbers would i have gotten if i was on a dyno-jet? also they asked me if i had an ECU tune because the numbers seemed high for thier kind of dyno (load dyno). So how would i know if the last owner had an ECU tune in my car I dont want to got out and see if i can go over 155mph to find out.
Also what tool/s does one need to install a Tune via Diag. port Guys?
05-08-2008, 10:32 AM
#25
c55 isn't a drag car, its a road car.
Drag cars disconnect there exhaust because there always going to be at full throttle since there racing for times.
This is where street cars and race cars are different. I assume your not always going to be driving your c55 at full throttle every time, AMG assumed this as well.
This is why they optimized the exhaust system with the cat and reasonator in mind. They used the back pressure created from the cat and reasonator to add the low to mid end torque.
You see this trick seen on lot of economy cars, hence why there exhaust system is usually around 2''-2.25.
Why do you think there no real aftermarket exhausts for the c32 and c55? Its because the stock exhaust system is already tuned really well from the factory.
Yes a larger exhaust is better for making more power out of a engine when it warrants it...ie FI or a higher end NA Build. If you lose too much back pressure, you can't maintain any kind of velocity through the system, so you lose power.
Going off the logic in your example, switching to a 3'' exhaust system should yield greater power since there's less back pressure robbing the car of its power. In real life, you'll end up losing power on a stock engine.
Just search the threads of other people that deleted there reasontor. They all talk about how they lost some mid to low end torque from stock. I agree the power difference from the reasonator delete probably wouldn't yield 300hp, but you never know. Its really easy to lose power when you mess with a finely tuned optimzed system created by AMG.
Drag cars disconnect there exhaust because there always going to be at full throttle since there racing for times.
This is where street cars and race cars are different. I assume your not always going to be driving your c55 at full throttle every time, AMG assumed this as well.
This is why they optimized the exhaust system with the cat and reasonator in mind. They used the back pressure created from the cat and reasonator to add the low to mid end torque.
You see this trick seen on lot of economy cars, hence why there exhaust system is usually around 2''-2.25.
Why do you think there no real aftermarket exhausts for the c32 and c55? Its because the stock exhaust system is already tuned really well from the factory.
Yes a larger exhaust is better for making more power out of a engine when it warrants it...ie FI or a higher end NA Build. If you lose too much back pressure, you can't maintain any kind of velocity through the system, so you lose power.
Going off the logic in your example, switching to a 3'' exhaust system should yield greater power since there's less back pressure robbing the car of its power. In real life, you'll end up losing power on a stock engine.
Just search the threads of other people that deleted there reasontor. They all talk about how they lost some mid to low end torque from stock. I agree the power difference from the reasonator delete probably wouldn't yield 300hp, but you never know. Its really easy to lose power when you mess with a finely tuned optimzed system created by AMG.
Thanks
