c32 amg or bmw m3? which is better and why?
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2002 C32
Originally posted by MacPhisto
Race cars don't have slushbox automatic transmissions.
Race cars don't have slushbox automatic transmissions.
Last edited by Franco; Dec 13, 2002 at 06:08 PM.
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From: Vienna, Austria
Audi S4
Originally posted by MacPhisto
A F1 transmission bears no mechanical resemblance to the slushbox, torque converter equipped, automatic on an C32.
An F1 transmission is mechanically a MANUAL transmission that is hydromechanically shifted.
A F1 transmission bears no mechanical resemblance to the slushbox, torque converter equipped, automatic on an C32.
An F1 transmission is mechanically a MANUAL transmission that is hydromechanically shifted.
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
Originally posted by Franco
Why compare the M3 and the C32. Both are great cars aimed at different people. Drive a C32 and you will notice that the C32's transmission is nothing like a slushbox. If a manual transmission is a must then why bother comparing the M3 to the C32. The exercise is pointless!
Why compare the M3 and the C32. Both are great cars aimed at different people. Drive a C32 and you will notice that the C32's transmission is nothing like a slushbox. If a manual transmission is a must then why bother comparing the M3 to the C32. The exercise is pointless!
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From: San Fernando Valley Ca
C32 AMG
If one is judging purely on speed............
C32 rips the M3 apart in a drag race and on the freeway. I know from lots of experience.
On the turns its somewhat difference. M3 gets the upperhand due to its better handling ablities. THe c32 is no dog though. It can hang very well with the M3 on the turns.
From a reliablity standpoint.
Not many C32 drivers have had major problems. Nothing but little bs that requires a few hours in the shop to fix. Blown motors on M3's though.....kinda scary.
Tuning wise. The C32 has much more capabilities of being tuned as its supercharged. Pulleys and chip increase power a lot. THe M3 engine is already tuned almost to the max. So if you are into the aftermarket scene......although mb's have less companies working the aftermarket. the c32 would be the better choice.
C32 rips the M3 apart in a drag race and on the freeway. I know from lots of experience.
On the turns its somewhat difference. M3 gets the upperhand due to its better handling ablities. THe c32 is no dog though. It can hang very well with the M3 on the turns.
From a reliablity standpoint.
Not many C32 drivers have had major problems. Nothing but little bs that requires a few hours in the shop to fix. Blown motors on M3's though.....kinda scary.
Tuning wise. The C32 has much more capabilities of being tuned as its supercharged. Pulleys and chip increase power a lot. THe M3 engine is already tuned almost to the max. So if you are into the aftermarket scene......although mb's have less companies working the aftermarket. the c32 would be the better choice.
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From: Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
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The rumour that BMW M cars may only come with SMG transmissions in the future because of over-revs in manual cars is wrong. In fact, in the whole M3 blown engine debâcle:
1) BOTH SMG II and manual cars showed over-revs in the ECU;
2) None of the blown engines showed any valvetrain damage;
3) All of the blown engines showed big end bearing failure.
Over-revving will cause valvetrain damage (ie: Mr. Valve, meet Mr. Piston) long before any damage to the con rod bearings becomes evident. So the modest over-revs recoded on some of the failed M3 engines were not a factor in the failure.
The problem with the M3 engine is that BMW has got some aspect(s) of the design horribly wrong. They've made three in-stream design changes to try and correct this problem. The latest, which kicked in a very short while ago, includes a new engine block and crankshaft design, not to mention many other parts. Have they got it right finally, 2 years into production?
The effective difference between SMG II and the AMG automatic gearbox, with steering wheel button shifter that exists on some M-B cars, is minimal. It's more or less a semantic argument about what the underlying technology is, because in practice these two gearboxes are an example of convergent evolution. That the AMG is the better solution from the point of view of everyday road use is obvious enough. The SMG II is a very rough shifting gearbox, and I would not be surprised to see BMW going to a torque converter because real-world clutch lifespan is perhaps not what they had hoped for.
If you haven't figured it out yet
, I'd go for a C 32 
1) BOTH SMG II and manual cars showed over-revs in the ECU;
2) None of the blown engines showed any valvetrain damage;
3) All of the blown engines showed big end bearing failure.
Over-revving will cause valvetrain damage (ie: Mr. Valve, meet Mr. Piston) long before any damage to the con rod bearings becomes evident. So the modest over-revs recoded on some of the failed M3 engines were not a factor in the failure.
The problem with the M3 engine is that BMW has got some aspect(s) of the design horribly wrong. They've made three in-stream design changes to try and correct this problem. The latest, which kicked in a very short while ago, includes a new engine block and crankshaft design, not to mention many other parts. Have they got it right finally, 2 years into production?
The effective difference between SMG II and the AMG automatic gearbox, with steering wheel button shifter that exists on some M-B cars, is minimal. It's more or less a semantic argument about what the underlying technology is, because in practice these two gearboxes are an example of convergent evolution. That the AMG is the better solution from the point of view of everyday road use is obvious enough. The SMG II is a very rough shifting gearbox, and I would not be surprised to see BMW going to a torque converter because real-world clutch lifespan is perhaps not what they had hoped for.
If you haven't figured it out yet
, I'd go for a C 32
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
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MIKE T is the right.
you won't get a blown engine in the M3 if you drive the car properly.
anyway, i had a 2000 328Ci before. I looked and tried and compared many times between M3 and the C32. My final decision was the C32. The answer was simple. 4-DOOR is much more pratical and the Speedo display is cool. Keep in mind that my 328Ci is the E46, not E36, so it's essentially the same with the M3 in interior spaces and features (except the engine, suspension, aggressive look).
btw I'm still a much bigger BMW fan in general. But between M and AMG, AMG is the way to go.
you won't get a blown engine in the M3 if you drive the car properly.
anyway, i had a 2000 328Ci before. I looked and tried and compared many times between M3 and the C32. My final decision was the C32. The answer was simple. 4-DOOR is much more pratical and the Speedo display is cool. Keep in mind that my 328Ci is the E46, not E36, so it's essentially the same with the M3 in interior spaces and features (except the engine, suspension, aggressive look).
btw I'm still a much bigger BMW fan in general. But between M and AMG, AMG is the way to go.
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From: Houston,TX-moving to The Woodlands,TX SOON!!!
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the C32 is a great compromise if you need the 4 doors and still want the performance, otherwise I'd get the M3. (M3 is a compormise if you just need a backseat...otherwise for the money I'd get a Corvette...which will kill the M3).
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Clearing some incorrect statements
The M3 SMGII is not a "rough-shifting" transmission as someone stated. It has 6 degrees of shifting (1 being the slowest/smoothest, 6 being the quickest/harshest). The 6 level is definitely harsh, but the 1 level is probably smoother shifting than anyone doing it themselves with a conventional manual. Try driving an SMG before you make up your own theories.
And I'm not sure what F1 series you guys watch, but I ALWAYS see the drivers shifting for themselves....esp when the show the ****pit views of MS or JPM. And don't try to compare an F1 transmission to the AMG auto tranny.
And I'm not sure what F1 series you guys watch, but I ALWAYS see the drivers shifting for themselves....esp when the show the ****pit views of MS or JPM. And don't try to compare an F1 transmission to the AMG auto tranny.
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Re: Clearing some incorrect statements
Originally posted by autobarn
And I'm not sure what F1 series you guys watch, but I ALWAYS see the drivers shifting for themselves....esp when the show the ****pit views of MS or JPM.
And I'm not sure what F1 series you guys watch, but I ALWAYS see the drivers shifting for themselves....esp when the show the ****pit views of MS or JPM.
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Re: Re: Clearing some incorrect statements
Originally posted by Matt230K
I don't know when you last watched F1, but they are not ALWAYS shifting for themselves. The still can, but they also can program the electronics to shift for them. It is still a manual transmission, but the shifts can be done for them, up or down shifts, with the electronics.
I don't know when you last watched F1, but they are not ALWAYS shifting for themselves. The still can, but they also can program the electronics to shift for them. It is still a manual transmission, but the shifts can be done for them, up or down shifts, with the electronics.
I understand that some of the shifting is done automatically, but the point of my previous post was to show that even though some of the shifting is programmed, it doesn't make it similar to a slushbox.
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Re: Re: Re: Clearing some incorrect statements
Originally posted by autobarn
You need some reading comprehension skills. I didn't say that the drivers are ALWAYS shifting for themselves, but whenever they show driver ****pit views, I ALWAYS see them shifting themselves.
I understand that some of the shifting is done automatically, but the point of my previous post was to show that even though some of the shifting is programmed, it doesn't make it similar to a slushbox.
You need some reading comprehension skills. I didn't say that the drivers are ALWAYS shifting for themselves, but whenever they show driver ****pit views, I ALWAYS see them shifting themselves.
I understand that some of the shifting is done automatically, but the point of my previous post was to show that even though some of the shifting is programmed, it doesn't make it similar to a slushbox.
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Re: Clearing some incorrect statements
Originally posted by autobarn
The M3 SMGII is not a "rough-shifting" transmission as someone stated. It has 6 degrees of shifting (1 being the slowest/smoothest, 6 being the quickest/harshest). The 6 level is definitely harsh, but the 1 level is probably smoother shifting than anyone doing it themselves with a conventional manual. Try driving an SMG before you make up your own theories.
The M3 SMGII is not a "rough-shifting" transmission as someone stated. It has 6 degrees of shifting (1 being the slowest/smoothest, 6 being the quickest/harshest). The 6 level is definitely harsh, but the 1 level is probably smoother shifting than anyone doing it themselves with a conventional manual. Try driving an SMG before you make up your own theories.
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Re: Re: Clearing some incorrect statements
Originally posted by Mike T.
That would be me. When I wrote that, I was comparing it to the AMG automatic gearbox. The SMG II is definitely harsher than the AMG even in candy-a$$ mode.
That would be me. When I wrote that, I was comparing it to the AMG automatic gearbox. The SMG II is definitely harsher than the AMG even in candy-a$$ mode.
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Re: Re: Clearing some incorrect statements
Originally posted by Mike T.
That would be me. When I wrote that, I was comparing it to the AMG automatic gearbox. The SMG II is definitely harsher than the AMG even in candy-a$$ mode.
That would be me. When I wrote that, I was comparing it to the AMG automatic gearbox. The SMG II is definitely harsher than the AMG even in candy-a$$ mode.
Having said that, I would say the AMG speedshift auto tranny is probably the best auto tranny out there.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Clearing some incorrect statements
Originally posted by Matt230K
I understand what you mean but that ISN'T what you said, so you should try to comprehend what you are thinking before you decide to write it.
I understand what you mean but that ISN'T what you said, so you should try to comprehend what you are thinking before you decide to write it.
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Re: Clearing some incorrect statements
Originally posted by autobarn
And I'm not sure what F1 series you guys watch, but I ALWAYS see the drivers shifting for themselves....esp when the show the ****pit views of MS or JPM. And don't try to compare an F1 transmission to the AMG auto tranny.
And I'm not sure what F1 series you guys watch, but I ALWAYS see the drivers shifting for themselves....esp when the show the ****pit views of MS or JPM. And don't try to compare an F1 transmission to the AMG auto tranny.
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Re: Re: Clearing some incorrect statements
Originally posted by Matt230K
This is what you said, with ALWAYS in caps. Obviously you aren't going to see them shifting if they aren't showing you the in-car view. Duh!! Do you think they are only shifting for themselves when they know the camera is watching. So if you understand that they don't always shift for themselves, why do you think that you are always seeing it? Just because their hands are on the wheel does not mean that they are shifting for themselves. Sometimes it's hard to tell since they don't have to move the shifters very far.
This is what you said, with ALWAYS in caps. Obviously you aren't going to see them shifting if they aren't showing you the in-car view. Duh!! Do you think they are only shifting for themselves when they know the camera is watching. So if you understand that they don't always shift for themselves, why do you think that you are always seeing it? Just because their hands are on the wheel does not mean that they are shifting for themselves. Sometimes it's hard to tell since they don't have to move the shifters very far.
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Re: Re: Re: Clearing some incorrect statements
Originally posted by autobarn
Again, try hookedonphonics.com. Did I say that the drivers shift ONLY when they show the in-car view? No. Saying that I always see the drivers shifting when they show in-car views doesn't mean they aren't shifting at other times. You seem to confuse the word "always" with "only". Then again, if you could afford a real education, you wouldn't be driving a cheapo C230k.
Again, try hookedonphonics.com. Did I say that the drivers shift ONLY when they show the in-car view? No. Saying that I always see the drivers shifting when they show in-car views doesn't mean they aren't shifting at other times. You seem to confuse the word "always" with "only". Then again, if you could afford a real education, you wouldn't be driving a cheapo C230k.
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Re: Re: Re: Clearing some incorrect statements
Originally posted by autobarn
Then again, if you could afford a real education, you wouldn't be driving a cheapo C230k.
Then again, if you could afford a real education, you wouldn't be driving a cheapo C230k.
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From: NYC/NJ.
W209 - W163
hey autobarn, i have a job for you... how about you stop trolling the forums and jump in the god damn ocean and help retrieve some of those BMW's that are rotting on the ocean floor. Maybe you could bring your good ol' pals at MBWorld.org back a rusted SMG gearbox. Thanks!
P.S. Dont drown like those bimmers did...
P.S. Dont drown like those bimmers did...
