Lou Zer

Hello all,

I'm looking for any advice you folks might throw my way for my meeting with the MB regional rep. on Monday (20th). My car has developed the 1500 to 2000 rpm jerk in second gear. When I first purchased the car there was no jerk, ever. Over time there was a subtle jerk that happened infrequently. It is at the point now that it jerks every time I travel through 1500 to 2000 rpm in second gear. It is also no longer subtle, sometimes violent enough to provoke startled looks from passengers as if to say "were we rear ended?". That scenario is usually when I have to slow almost to a stop and then get back on the gas reasonably aggressively.

It is completely ruining my ownership experience. It happens every single time I turn a corner. Slow, turn, power out jerk. It completely takes the wind out of any non-point a to b fun driving. It robs any sport from the car. It also makes the "W" mode actually counter productive. Today w/snow and ice on the ground here I tried to use W. Big mistake, as the backend want to kick out at the jerk that happened ever time I accelerated away from a stop. Didn't matter if I used light or heavy throttle.

It feels as if the car is brutally locking up the torque converter for no apparent reason. My car is an '02 and read here that some '02 owners had their transmission PCM replaced w/a '03 to address this issue. I took a printout of the post to my dealership and they agreed to perform this attempted fix. Sadly, the PCM change did nothing at all. My service writer called me and said the car jerked pulling it up from the service bay At this point I have to think that they either botched the repair (used a '02 module instead of '03), that repair does not in fact work, or I have another problem.

My ride-along w/the rep on Monday is my 4th one. It will be my 5th visit to the dealer for this problem. The last ride along was w/the dealers senior mechanic who tried to half heartedly sell me the "it's a performance car, it'll run rough" song and dance.

I'm really at my wits end, I mean the problem is blatant and totally out of character w/the rest of the smooth behavior of the car. It is also far removed from the "Velvet Hammer" mythos that MB wielded to sell me the car. I mean, do I have to have Paul Halata or God Almighty himself come ride along in my car next? What will it take to get my dealership/MB to take my problem seriously and either say "yes it's not what we sold you and we'll fix it" or "yes it's not what we sold you and we can't fix it"?

I got all of the hammer and none of the velvet

oggle

Hey I notice that about my C320 too! Are you sure it's not just the gear downshifting and giving you more power?

C32Andy

My 02 C32 used to have the jerking problem, but it's corrected after the dealer replaced the 03 C32 transmission ECU...It is possible that they may have changed yours w/ a 02 model ECU 'cause the part number is the same (I think)......My mechanic first ordered a 03 unit, but they received a 02 ECU from factory. So I ended up waitting for an extra week for the right ECU

blando

and raise hell at that level too. This is ridiculous. 5 trips to the dealer?!? Tell 'em your going to start the lemon law process. That usually gets a response...

Lou Zer

C32Andy, how was your mechanic able to verify that the ECU was an '02 and not an '03. Perhaps armed with this information I can have my dealership verify that the replacement they used was an '03. TIA.

As far as calling MBUSA, I did after the last ride along w/the dealer mechanic. I let them know that I did not feel this problem was "normal/to be expected" and that I was beginning to sense the dealership was reluctant to invest the time to fix it. The MBUSA rep suggested the ride along with the rep (my service writer suggested the same thing a week prior) and I told her that was already in the works. She told me that they would relay my concerns along to the dealership. I think at this stage there really isn't anything else MB could/would do for me.

Collin

Very good explanation of the EXACT same problem that I am having. I will definitely be taking a copy of this thread with me to the dealership in a couple of weeks when I get an A service done and have them look at the problem.

You are exactly right that it ruins the driving experience altogether! I feel we are on the same page about "all of the hammer and none of the velvet". This abrupt jerk is COMPLETELY out of character for this type of car, IMHO.

Please keep us updated of the ride-along on Monday.

Thanks,

Collin

Lou Zer

Well, had an interesting time dropping off my car today. My service advisor told me the shop foreman that rode along w/me in December was no longer with the dealership (or MB I believe). He also informed that their new shop foreman worked directly for MB engineering/technicians w/something like 30 years experience. He said that the regional rep would not be in till later in the day but that the new foreman would like to ride along.

I put the car in "W" mode and used the manu-matic to hold 2nd gear and we lurched out of the parking lot and down the road. The new foreman, in contrast to the old one, immediately identified the problem as the torque converter. He then explained to me how the converter was controlled by the ECU and that the regularity of the problem indicated it was most likely software and not mechanical (all info I gleaned reading here, but great to hear him pick up on it w/out prompting).

I then explained to him that the PCM/ECU had been replaced in Dec. but that unlike every other owner I've corresponded w/it did not fix the problem. I also told him of Andy's experience receiving the wrong part. I asked if this would be a reasonably easy thing to verify in my case. He concurred and said he was interested in researching what updates etc. were available. He was surprised when I told him other people were having whole PCM/ECUs replaced v.s. flashing.

Then my service writer, who was riding along also, mentioned that the former foreman tried to sell me the "it's a performance car, it'll run rough" song and dance. His response was "I certainly wouldn't put up with this."

So, though I've yet to meet a rep, at least I appear to have some skilled people interested in my issue again. Wish me luck.

Collin

Thank goodness, Lou. It feels good to have someone (new foreman) who actually UNDERSTANDS the problem not just guessing about what it might be. Please keep us updated since I'll be taking this whole thread with me in a couple of weeks. I must say that I have yet to deal with my local dealer yet since I bought this car used out of state. I'm looking forward to a good experience with the dealer as I have heard really good things.

I guess I feel a little skeptical b/c of what I just went through with MINIUSA, my local dealer, and my Cooper S about three or four months ago but I'm sure MB will be much better.

Good luck with MB rep. but it sounds like you're on the way to getting it fixed for good.

Collin

C32Andy

2 days after dropping my car off to the dealer, I got a call from them saying that they've received the wrong ECU and I might have to wait an extra week before getting the the right one to come in....So I don't exactly know how they determine the ones from 02 to 03. But the drive is totally different and smoother after they finally agreed to replace the new ECU.

I feel your frustration. I took my car in on 3 different occastions and fortunately resolved the problem. I hope they can finally fix your problem and let you enjoy the C32 as much as it should be.

Collin

I'm sorry Andy, but are you saying that they replaced your entire ECU (like the computer brain for the motor) or just the electronic tranny module with an '03? Just trying to clarify so I'll know what to tell my techs.

"EDITED" Nevermind, Andy, I reread your first post in this thread where you stated it was your tranny module

TIA,

Collin

C23K

Sorry to hear about your misfortune Lou,

I know when something happens to my car (even when its very menial) I am totally crushed. Hopefully all works out for the best.

Regards,
Matt

eyuan23

It's funny how someone brought this topic up again since I just took my car to MB this weekend to finally get the ECU module replaced. However, like Lou Zer, it unfortunately did not solve the "jerk" problem. The car feels nearly identical as before I brought it to MB. I'm pretty dissapointed and running out of possible solutions .

C32Andy made a good suggestion to make sure the module that was replaced was, in fact, a '03 one and not '02. I will call my service guy to confirm it. Other than this, I'm pretty stumped. I'll let MB know that I still have that problem and maybe the technicians there can think of other culprits. I'm pretty doubtful they can solve this problem, but it's worth a shot.

One question for C32Andy. When you said there was a big difference in the drive after the replacement, how noticeable was it?

C32Andy

After replacing the 03 ECU module, the car still jerked for couple days and I thought the new ECU is not making any improvements. But the technician told me to give it a couple days for the new ECU to learn my driving style. After that, the transmission is smoother when it shifts and no more jerking at accelerations. When I went in to get it fixed, I specifically requested them to put in the updated 03 ECU module (cause many 02 C32s have a faulty ECU that causes jerking). Check and see if the dealer replaced yours w/ a 03 ECU module or 02 model.

Lou Zer

It is interesting that Andy says he had to drive a while to get the ECU to adapt. I asked my service writer if this was the case when I was still jerking after my last attempted repair. He said that the technicians actually cleared any "learned" behavior and would not expect it to need to adapt to get rid of the jerk.

There may be hope yet eyuan23! My service writer just left a message saying a new ECU was installed yesterday and that the cars was "...soooooo smooth now." This is great, because the same writer told me after the last repair that he knew it was not fixed just from pulling the car up from the service bay; so he knows the problem well. I'm just waiting on a new brake booster switch to clear the random BAS/ESP warnings and it looks like I'll be back in business jerk free

P.S. my E320 loaner is cool in a Cadilac sort of way :o

Collin

Sounds good, Lou! Looking forward a full review when you get your car back. I hope that is the solution.

Collin

eyuan23

Thanks guys. I will most likely have to send my car in again to get everything checked out. It's been 2 days since I've had the module replaced and I still feel a noticeable jerk. The drive doesn't feel any different.

Wow Lou Zer, looking pretty optimistic. I will definitely work harder with my technician to try and get this solved.

Thanks again everyone!

C32Andy

Hey eyuan23.......what part of S. Cali are you from.....are you in the rowland heights area?

eyuan23

No I actually live in San Diego, but I go to my parents house in Upland frequently. I do spend quite a bit of time in Rowland to eat . Looks like you live pretty close to me. I bought my car from Penske. Love their service (...if they eventually fix the problem :p).

I've "met" one person here. It was FrankW at some chinese restaurant in Rowland. Didn't realize I saw him until he asked me about it online lol. I notice there are a good number of C32 owner in the So-Cal area. Always have my eye out just in case .

Lou Zer

Those teasers, they call me up telling me how smooth it is, taunting me, and won't give it back They say they are still waiting for the brake booster switch. On the plus side, I was much happier plowing through the winter time muck here in eastern NC in their loaner than my C32 (as long as their not out doing the same thing in my C32, perish the thought).

I'm going to get kind of bent out of shape if it is not ready tomorrow though. I made this appointment a month in advance and they knew about the ESP/BAS issue.

03ML350

Just for clarification has your "jerking problem" been resolved with the 2003 C32?

On a brighter note, just think if you had gotten a M3 you might have a blown engine! BMW is only now recognizing the problem and have started to do research (this is in the latest AutoWeek).

I hope you get her back soon!

Lou Zer

Is the jerk fixed? Right now I don't know personally because they still have the car. Earlier in the week they called to say they resolved the issue w/a new transmission ECU (3rd one, 2nd replacement). I have no reason to doubt them. As I mentioned earlier they didn't hesitate to call me and tell me the last ECU did not fix the problem. I fully expect it to be resolved when I pick it up today.

Spoke with the dealership today and they said the brake booster switch has been replaced and the car was ready. The shop foreman wanted to spend some more time driving the car around to make sure that the ESP warning was really fixed and that the car didn't adapt back into jerking. They were of course slowed down by the snow storm that just passed through here. I plan on picking it up this afternoon and will give a full report.

Thus far my dealership has really pulled this one out of the fire for me. Hopefully that impression will continue when I pick up the car

About the BMW, see that would never happen because I would have been smart enough not to buy the M3 in the first place. I was out on the roadfly BMW forums when the first reports of crank failures were coming in on the BMW endurance test cars. I was also out there when the release of the E46 M3 was delayed due to engine production issues. The cranks were "out of tolerance." I kind of put 2 & 2 together on that one. It's a real shame too because the M3 is a fine automobile, one I would otherwise have snapped up. Having owned my share of M cars though, I know if you have a problem BMW will just hang you out to dry. And that risk just wasn't worth taking on the M3.

Collin

Sounds good, Lou. Looking forward to your report.

You're right about the M3...fine car but I'd be too worried about the motor. Although BMW has just extended all '01-'02 M3 powertrain warranties to 100,000 miles so that should help some. They still need to find out what the problem seems to be and fix it.

I believe that is BMW biggest problem, at least it was with my Cooper S, they will not even ADMIT there is a problem until at least 20% of the cars have a similar problem. It is really unnerving.

Love the Benz, though. I hope my dealer is as straight-forward as yours has been.

Collin

Lou Zer

03ML350, just read your post more carefully and realized that you asking if the '03 C32 has the jerk. I'm not the definitive source for that info, but I don't know of any '03s with the jerk. Further, it is my understanding that what fixes the jerk on the '02 is to install an '03 transmission ECU. Based on that, I'd say the '03 won't suffer the jerk.

rage2

My '03 SLK 32 AMG does not have the jerk. My cousin's '02 SLK 32 AMG does have it.

Lou Zer

At last, my C32 is jerk free. Picked the car up on Fri. The shop foreman wanted to ride along w/me and be sure I agreed that the jerk was fixed. I went for a short drive around the dealership and all seemed well. I told the foreman as long as things stayed this way then the jerk was fixed. I drove through rush hour traffic, and slow residential neighborhoods... some of it in "W" mode. Previously that was a sure recipe for a jerky ride home. But now it was smooth and predictable, no jerk. I kept getting up to 1500, the point where previously I could feel the car resist acceleration as the torque converter began to lock up. Where as before the car would jerk forward at that point, now the torque converter locks up smoothly (I can still see the rpms drop as it locks up). If I was not watching the tach and had previous experience w/the jerk it would be completely transparent to me.

The rest of the transmission behavior seems the same (which is good, because other than the jerk it is nice) with the exception of accelerating from a stop in first gear. It is more linear with the new ECU (where before the car would accelerate harder than what I expected for the given throttle position then back off some). I still have to head back to the dealership for a fastener that they did not have available regarding my ESP repair. Not too big a deal since they could not wash my car Fri since their pipes burst (did I mention its been coooold here) and next week they will be able to give me a complementary detail. To tell you the truth, I'm so happy to have the jerk fixed I'd go back 10 more times

The shop foreman let me in on a few things as well. According to him, the only technical bulletin on this issue that MB has released is eight months old. It states not to attempt any repairs and that they might have a software solution for the issue in the future. He told me they were having a hard time figuring out exactly how they were going to bill the repair work to MB in light of that. Of course he also told me it was not my issue and not to worry, I wouldn't be charged. He said it just shed some light on why dealerships might be having a hard time getting this issue squared away.

He said he did find a brand new TSB on our tail light wiring harnesses while he was researching. Turns out many C32s (actually I'm guessing C class period) have been burning out their tail lights and that MB has designed a new harness to address this. The harness was not available yet, so I'll probably have it done when I do my service A in a few months.