I dont think it will fit my car, 
sl55 intake vs stock intake vs needwings cfm numbers
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
sl55 intake vs stock intake vs needwings cfm numbers
Hey guys, I know not everyone checks the srt6 forums. Needswings flow tested the sl55, c32 and needswings intakes and posted there cfm numbers. here's the repost
here's the link
http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/...tml#post521279
Originally Posted by NeedsWings
so today i took a customer loaned sl55 airbox setup to the flow bench to be tested as well as being tested with our devil horn setup.
we have previously tested several combo's of our CAI/DCAI's along with the stock srt6 intake system, that data is here...
http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/...flow-data.html
todays testing was also done at ~ 15in/h2o
the sl55 setup we recieved had some trimming/damage to one of the "snorkle" tubes in which i assume he trimmed to fit on the srt6. we did however had a brand new identical (without the trimming done) air snorkel tube here that we did up for a sl600 a while back, anyways i substituted that in place so that both snorkle tubes would be OEM sl55 so the trimmed/broken inlet end would not squew the results. the sl55 setup had paper filters installed (not k&n drop in's) so thats what we did the testing with.
the results were what i was expecting and saying for the past few years but today i ponied up and dropped some coin for the flow bench time so this could be put to rest.
stock sl55 setup with paper filters and stock snorkle tubes flowed between 513-515cfm @ 15 in/h20
i then went for the devil horns setup. now i do not have any of the aluminum tubes that customers have been using to connect the devil horns to the sl55 airboxes so i did make a substitution. the tubes anthony sells have 2 bends in them, the tube i substituted had only 1 bend in it. sorry i made due with what we had here today. to once the substitued snorkle tubes went on we connected up our devil horns. with the horns on and the same flow rate we made 529-533cfm.
the attachment to the flow bench was identical to the setup we used on our previous trip there with the straight 3" tube heading up and then a 90deg silicone coupler to another straight section of 3' tubing aiming towards the back of the bench, this enabled us to attach the entire intake systems. yes the number for all tests would have been increased if that setup was not used for the adaptor to the bench but at that point we wouldnt have been able to test most of these setups. the important point is that all tests were performed the same in a climate controlled environment even though they were done on different days. im sure there is a very slight difference in humidity from then to now but we are talking a very slight difference in numbers if any.
so there is the data, the sl55 setup does indeed flow better then the oem srt6 air intake system but it is no where near the flow numbers of even our single CAI system.
so to get the important numbers together...
stock srt6 intake = 446cfm
sl55 intake = 514
sl55 with devil horns = 531
single CAI with teflon = 602
dual CAI with teflon and big filters = 748
i should have brought in a dcai setup with the normal filters to slap on there today also but we didn't have any ready, i'll have to do that next time we do testing.
we have previously tested several combo's of our CAI/DCAI's along with the stock srt6 intake system, that data is here...
http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/...flow-data.html
todays testing was also done at ~ 15in/h2o
the sl55 setup we recieved had some trimming/damage to one of the "snorkle" tubes in which i assume he trimmed to fit on the srt6. we did however had a brand new identical (without the trimming done) air snorkel tube here that we did up for a sl600 a while back, anyways i substituted that in place so that both snorkle tubes would be OEM sl55 so the trimmed/broken inlet end would not squew the results. the sl55 setup had paper filters installed (not k&n drop in's) so thats what we did the testing with.
the results were what i was expecting and saying for the past few years but today i ponied up and dropped some coin for the flow bench time so this could be put to rest.
stock sl55 setup with paper filters and stock snorkle tubes flowed between 513-515cfm @ 15 in/h20
i then went for the devil horns setup. now i do not have any of the aluminum tubes that customers have been using to connect the devil horns to the sl55 airboxes so i did make a substitution. the tubes anthony sells have 2 bends in them, the tube i substituted had only 1 bend in it. sorry i made due with what we had here today. to once the substitued snorkle tubes went on we connected up our devil horns. with the horns on and the same flow rate we made 529-533cfm.
the attachment to the flow bench was identical to the setup we used on our previous trip there with the straight 3" tube heading up and then a 90deg silicone coupler to another straight section of 3' tubing aiming towards the back of the bench, this enabled us to attach the entire intake systems. yes the number for all tests would have been increased if that setup was not used for the adaptor to the bench but at that point we wouldnt have been able to test most of these setups. the important point is that all tests were performed the same in a climate controlled environment even though they were done on different days. im sure there is a very slight difference in humidity from then to now but we are talking a very slight difference in numbers if any.
so there is the data, the sl55 setup does indeed flow better then the oem srt6 air intake system but it is no where near the flow numbers of even our single CAI system.
so to get the important numbers together...
stock srt6 intake = 446cfm
sl55 intake = 514
sl55 with devil horns = 531
single CAI with teflon = 602
dual CAI with teflon and big filters = 748
i should have brought in a dcai setup with the normal filters to slap on there today also but we didn't have any ready, i'll have to do that next time we do testing.
here's the link
http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/...tml#post521279
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2002 C32, 2012 S550
Yup, either way, we're much more limited.
If we had the room, I'd for sure have the NeedsWings manifolds and intake already....
But we'd still never be as fast as those freakin SRT-6's!!
If we had the room, I'd for sure have the NeedsWings manifolds and intake already....
But we'd still never be as fast as those freakin SRT-6's!!
Last edited by Gramma_Benz; Sep 22, 2010 at 08:41 PM.
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G55, G500 & SLK55
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Now, if we could just get these things to fit???
His air flow test does beg the question though. Is there enough "ability" in the stock throttle bodies and SC to handle these flow rates and is there a bottleneck here?? Does anyone know the max flow of "air" these engines will handle??
Last edited by Newzchspy; Sep 23, 2010 at 08:58 AM.
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From: Houston, TX
C32/C55 AMG
I am thinking the dual CAI with the FMU throttle body set-up (pending more info on that) on the C32 would be the ticket for better air flow. So we do know now that the stock C32/SRT-6 set up sucks (literally) for air flow and that aftermarket is the way to go.
Now, if we could just get these things to fit???
His air flow test does beg the question though. Is there enough "ability" in the stock throttle bodies and SC to handle these flow rates and is there a bottleneck here?? Does anyone know the max flow of "air" these engines will handle??
Now, if we could just get these things to fit???
His air flow test does beg the question though. Is there enough "ability" in the stock throttle bodies and SC to handle these flow rates and is there a bottleneck here?? Does anyone know the max flow of "air" these engines will handle??
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
well i think the question is whether you can find a map sensor to boost past 22psi. Because the srt6 guys just use a code3 and intake which still boosts below 22psi. There putting in better quarter mile times since there cars basically weigh 400lbs less then ours.
But until you can find away past the 22psi limit, i think the throttle body and needswings intake is a waste since people are already hitting 22-23psi on a 185crank and code3 intake mod.
But until you can find away past the 22psi limit, i think the throttle body and needswings intake is a waste since people are already hitting 22-23psi on a 185crank and code3 intake mod.
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well i think the question is whether you can find a map sensor to boost past 22psi. Because the srt6 guys just use a code3 and intake which still boosts below 22psi. There putting in better quarter mile times since there cars basically weigh 400lbs less then ours.
But until you can find away past the 22psi limit, i think the throttle body and needswings intake is a waste since people are already hitting 22-23psi on a 185crank and code3 intake mod.
But until you can find away past the 22psi limit, i think the throttle body and needswings intake is a waste since people are already hitting 22-23psi on a 185crank and code3 intake mod.
They are only past the 22 psi limit because that's the ability of the SC modified by higher speeds of crank and/or Code 3 pulley to push air! My question is, does the current "intake" systems limited abilities/capacity to flow air really make a difference since the SC/throttle body and MAF can only handle so much any way. An analogy is a funnel, no matter how big the opening at top, the bottom "neck" can only handle so much liquid and thus limits the ability to actually pass fluids.
I still maintain that the SC on our cars C32/SRT6 is the major limiting factor in the ability for force more air into the cylinders. Thus, running a 185 plus a Code3 is illogical since it takes the SC beyond the 22 psi limit. This is where all of the guys are throwing CELS.
Last edited by Newzchspy; Sep 23, 2010 at 11:52 AM.
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
I was hitting 23psi with my 185crank and code3 mod intake. Usually when i go WOT in cold weather..IE around 60degrees or driving 125mph in mexico.
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From: Snellville, GA
'03 C32, '08 ML63
S/C is definitely a limiting factor in our cars. EC converted an SRT-6 over to turbo and was putting down some 4xxwhp. I think the kit was a one-off though... Too bad they didn't fully develop it for the srt6/slk32/c32. The more the prices drop on these cars the more I can see people willing to drop a few grand for a big HP boost.
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C32/C55 AMG
So why would a 3.7L M112 with our kompressor and a few other things produces a good amount of horsepower, but I think we can work with our current set up.
Here's a post of the info I found.
Here's a post of the info I found.
From looking at the price of the M112 3.7L engines, they can be had from $2000 to $4000. Depending on what needs to be done to the engine and probably switching over to m113k pistons and rods for an additional $1000, you could have close to a 530hp C32 for less than what some people have spent modding their cars. While the C63 is a nice car, the C32 would be
a lot cheaper and potentially faster than a C63 with 500hp.
You may have a difficult time reading this website, but take a look at it. I believe this is a C32 estate that has gone with the m112 3.7l block and heads and retained the C32 supercharger and other components. He used a 58mm supercharger pulley and a 182mm crank pulley and he's almost at 1.4bars. He also used pistons and rods from the m113k engine and the c55 exhaust. He's claiming 500hp and it sounds like it could be possible, but you never know. Take in mind it has been translated from Chinese to English, so it may not make a lot of sense.
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate...rUrl=Translate
Here's another cool link that has a c32 with a m112 3.7l engine and different supercharger.
http://translate.google.com/translat...ews%2F12%2F325
If I remember correctly, you may need to switch some pins around in the harness to make it work correctly. Apparently the 80mm throttle body opens in the opposite direction and you need to switch certain pins to make it open in the correct direction. Take a look at this link, it should be the info you are looking for: https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-04-cl600.html I think that the sc inlet is from the E55, take a look at some pics of the one I bought recently. You will see the part number on the inlet.
Here is the link to the thread that I made: https://mbworld.org/forums/c32-amg-c...dy-thread.html
a lot cheaper and potentially faster than a C63 with 500hp.
You may have a difficult time reading this website, but take a look at it. I believe this is a C32 estate that has gone with the m112 3.7l block and heads and retained the C32 supercharger and other components. He used a 58mm supercharger pulley and a 182mm crank pulley and he's almost at 1.4bars. He also used pistons and rods from the m113k engine and the c55 exhaust. He's claiming 500hp and it sounds like it could be possible, but you never know. Take in mind it has been translated from Chinese to English, so it may not make a lot of sense.
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate...rUrl=Translate
Here's another cool link that has a c32 with a m112 3.7l engine and different supercharger.
http://translate.google.com/translat...ews%2F12%2F325
If I remember correctly, you may need to switch some pins around in the harness to make it work correctly. Apparently the 80mm throttle body opens in the opposite direction and you need to switch certain pins to make it open in the correct direction. Take a look at this link, it should be the info you are looking for: https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-04-cl600.html I think that the sc inlet is from the E55, take a look at some pics of the one I bought recently. You will see the part number on the inlet.
Here is the link to the thread that I made: https://mbworld.org/forums/c32-amg-c...dy-thread.html
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Does/would the SC even make a difference in this case , as the heads, valves and cylinders will only flow "so much" anyway. So, even if we go with a higher BAR SC, will the upper end of the engine be able to handle the volume of air and gas being forced into there, and this doesn't even include the issue of injectors and fuel delivery??
I believe that Kleemann has addressed this issue on the C55 and have found that both fuel delivery, (MAF sensor) and also compression of the 5.4 engine are limiting factors in the ability of the Autorotor SC they used to use to push more volume into the engine. In other words, the std Autorotor I believe runs about 5 and Mike's (Alumar) is at 6-7 with the smaller SC pulley. Even if he goes above that, gains are negligible if any. In addition, too much air volume on any engine is going to nuke it.
I believe that Kleemann has addressed this issue on the C55 and have found that both fuel delivery, (MAF sensor) and also compression of the 5.4 engine are limiting factors in the ability of the Autorotor SC they used to use to push more volume into the engine. In other words, the std Autorotor I believe runs about 5 and Mike's (Alumar) is at 6-7 with the smaller SC pulley. Even if he goes above that, gains are negligible if any. In addition, too much air volume on any engine is going to nuke it.
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
Does/would the SC even make a difference in this case , as the heads, valves and cylinders will only flow "so much" anyway. So, even if we go with a higher BAR SC, will the upper end of the engine be able to handle the volume of air and gas being forced into there, and this doesn't even include the issue of injectors and fuel delivery??
I believe that Kleemann has addressed this issue on the C55 and have found that both fuel delivery, (MAF sensor) and also compression of the 5.4 engine are limiting factors in the ability of the Autorotor SC they used to use to push more volume into the engine. In other words, the std Autorotor I believe runs about 5 and Mike's (Alumar) is at 6-7 with the smaller SC pulley. Even if he goes above that, gains are negligible if any. In addition, too much air volume on any engine is going to nuke it.
I believe that Kleemann has addressed this issue on the C55 and have found that both fuel delivery, (MAF sensor) and also compression of the 5.4 engine are limiting factors in the ability of the Autorotor SC they used to use to push more volume into the engine. In other words, the std Autorotor I believe runs about 5 and Mike's (Alumar) is at 6-7 with the smaller SC pulley. Even if he goes above that, gains are negligible if any. In addition, too much air volume on any engine is going to nuke it.
The injectors on the c32 are the same ones as the e55 and there hitting 460whp+ on a dynojet on stock injectors.
In terms of tuning and getting the electronics to work correctly, it seems easier just to build the block to yield more power per psi using the stock sc.
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From: Snellville, GA
'03 C32, '08 ML63
I know we keep getting further off the original topic but I like this discussion.
So this raises a valid point. Assuming wiki is correct they're saying the E37 is just a bored E32. (From 89.9mm up to 97mm -- same bore as the E55 (m113k) engine). In which case you might be able to just use E55 pistons? Guess that depends if the con rods attach in the exact same fashion.
My only concern would be whether the E37 can handle the boost in a reliable manner. Shaving 7mm off your walls is no joke....while it may be fine for a N/A engine I'd be a bit concerned strapping the supercharger up top.
Which brings back to the main point of leaving the bore alone and using a bigger s/c. I'm with temjin....wonder what they used in that one car you posted earlier....
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From: Snellville, GA
'03 C32, '08 ML63
Answering my own question here. Looking at the URL --> http://www.carnews.com/detail/21750
They used a whipple. Can't use a translator at work but it says 3.8L Whipple...which doesn't make sense... But searching around I see references to a 2.3 whipple used on a 3.8L V6 so maybe that's what they're saying.
They used a whipple. Can't use a translator at work but it says 3.8L Whipple...which doesn't make sense... But searching around I see references to a 2.3 whipple used on a 3.8L V6 so maybe that's what they're saying.
Last edited by Biscuit; Sep 23, 2010 at 05:20 PM.
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W206 PHEV AMG
the black one has a Whipple Supercharger. 3.7 block, m113 pistons/rods, and I forgot what else.
IMO...custom work is cheaper when they're in Asia or Taiwan like those two 3.7 block C32s. custom works in the US of big A....forget about it. whatever price they mention you can double it and then some.
btw, it's saying that since the car is now a 3.8L (3724cc) the guy change the stock supercharger to a Whipple for the bigger engine.
edit: Brabus had a 3.7L option for the C32 engine mod while using the stock supercharger.
IMO...custom work is cheaper when they're in Asia or Taiwan like those two 3.7 block C32s. custom works in the US of big A....forget about it. whatever price they mention you can double it and then some.
btw, it's saying that since the car is now a 3.8L (3724cc) the guy change the stock supercharger to a Whipple for the bigger engine.
edit: Brabus had a 3.7L option for the C32 engine mod while using the stock supercharger.
Last edited by FrankW; Sep 23, 2010 at 05:42 PM.
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Does/would the SC even make a difference in this case , as the heads, valves and cylinders will only flow "so much" anyway. So, even if we go with a higher BAR SC, will the upper end of the engine be able to handle the volume of air and gas being forced into there, and this doesn't even include the issue of injectors and fuel delivery??
I believe that Kleemann has addressed this issue on the C55 and have found that both fuel delivery, (MAF sensor) and also compression of the 5.4 engine are limiting factors in the ability of the Autorotor SC they used to use to push more volume into the engine. In other words, the std Autorotor I believe runs about 5 and Mike's (Alumar) is at 6-7 with the smaller SC pulley. Even if he goes above that, gains are negligible if any. In addition, too much air volume on any engine is going to nuke it.
I believe that Kleemann has addressed this issue on the C55 and have found that both fuel delivery, (MAF sensor) and also compression of the 5.4 engine are limiting factors in the ability of the Autorotor SC they used to use to push more volume into the engine. In other words, the std Autorotor I believe runs about 5 and Mike's (Alumar) is at 6-7 with the smaller SC pulley. Even if he goes above that, gains are negligible if any. In addition, too much air volume on any engine is going to nuke it.
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
i found a s55 supercharger with intercooler and intake manifolds for $1k. Might be worth a shot if someone wants to take the plunge.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-...#ht_500wt_1102
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-...#ht_500wt_1102
