Installed JBS CF spoiler, front lip and Ebay rear diffuser on my C32 (PICS!)
#26
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GT, sorry but posting a wiki link doesn't prove that you have any knowledge or understanding of the material.
I understand the carbon fiber used on our lip spoilers, diffusers, etc, is carbon fiber overlayed on fiberglass. This however is not. That's what I've tried to discuss here. I guess we can consider it off topic, and I understand your point of view. I hope you understand now what I'm talking about when I say solid carbon fiber.
Last edited by gt4awd; 12-13-2010 at 11:35 PM.
#27
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white and whiter
The link initially describes a specific formulation of carbon fiber. That is what I'm referring to. Carbon fiber-reinforced polymer or carbon fiber-reinforced plastic (CFRP or CRP). This material is used often in Aerospace structure. I consider this to be solid carbon fiber. It is an epoxy compound that can be shaped in molds, and does not require a base such as fiberglass. This is used in the LFA. That is why I mentioned the LFA... It is 65% CFRP. Lexus is selling for nearly $400k. At that price the company makes no profit. Mainly due to use of CFRP.
I understand the carbon fiber used on our lip spoilers, diffusers, etc, is carbon fiber overlayed on fiberglass. This however is not. That's what I've tried to discuss here. I guess we can consider it off topic, and I understand your point of view. I hope you understand now what I'm talking about when I say solid carbon fiber.
I understand the carbon fiber used on our lip spoilers, diffusers, etc, is carbon fiber overlayed on fiberglass. This however is not. That's what I've tried to discuss here. I guess we can consider it off topic, and I understand your point of view. I hope you understand now what I'm talking about when I say solid carbon fiber.
there's nothing called solid CF. The CFRP is layers and layers carbon fiber cloth layed into a mold and then high pressure and high temp baked. it's how the F1 car cockpit are made and how the SLR, Enzo, Carrera GT are made. The epoxy compound is laid into the cloth when they are made. nothing is solid until they are layed and baked.
#28
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2002 C32 AMG
The link initially describes a specific formulation of carbon fiber. That is what I'm referring to. Carbon fiber-reinforced polymer or carbon fiber-reinforced plastic (CFRP or CRP). This material is used often in Aerospace structure. I consider this to be solid carbon fiber. It is an epoxy compound that can be shaped in molds, and does not require a base such as fiberglass. This is used in the LFA. That is why I mentioned the LFA... It is 65% CFRP. Lexus is selling for nearly $400k. At that price the company makes no profit. Mainly due to use of CFRP.
I understand the carbon fiber used on our lip spoilers, diffusers, etc, is carbon fiber overlayed on fiberglass. This however is not. That's what I've tried to discuss here. I guess we can consider it off topic, and I understand your point of view. I hope you understand now what I'm talking about when I say solid carbon fiber.
I understand the carbon fiber used on our lip spoilers, diffusers, etc, is carbon fiber overlayed on fiberglass. This however is not. That's what I've tried to discuss here. I guess we can consider it off topic, and I understand your point of view. I hope you understand now what I'm talking about when I say solid carbon fiber.
Bry
Last edited by Autotechnica; 12-14-2010 at 09:35 PM.
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Aston Martin V8 Vantage
My point was that carbon fiber must always use a fiberglass base. There is no such thing as solid carbon fiber. You have to take a look at the manufacturing process in order to understand. You can't roll a peice of cloth over nothing to form a shape, it has to be applied to something before it can reinforce that structure. You could say that carbon fiber is just a stronger version of fiberglass. However, to say that it's not real carbon fiber because it contains fiberglass as a base is incorrect. At any rate, quality and strength of either one of these materials has everything to do with quality of materials, craftmanship and the actual materials being used. It's pointless to debate what is stronger than what. A CF peice that contains more layers of CF could easily be weaker than a properly made peice of fiberglass. I think a lot of people don't understand how strong fiberglass really is. There's too many cheap ricer body kits out there made of poor quality fiberglass. That's a very poor example of the materials abilities.
Bry
Bry
#30
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the spoilers etc are not overlays. they are wet-layed carbon fiber with fiber glass back. depends on the craftsmanship they are made thick or thin.
The CFRP is layers and layers carbon fiber cloth layed into a mold and then high pressure and high temp baked.
If anything we are getting some good information about fiberglass...
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I did research the LFA, and it was described as having a new advanced carbon fiber structure. I guess this isn't the case?
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white and whiter
Overlay is the incorrect word to use I guess. They do call the sticker type overlay... Was saying I know it's layered carbon fiber, and resin on a base.
So it's the same layering process just higher quality and more involved with stronger finished product?
If anything we are getting some good information about fiberglass...![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I did research the LFA, and it was described as having a new advanced carbon fiber structure. I guess this isn't the case?
So it's the same layering process just higher quality and more involved with stronger finished product?
If anything we are getting some good information about fiberglass...
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I did research the LFA, and it was described as having a new advanced carbon fiber structure. I guess this isn't the case?
cfrp products are much more expensive to make then the typical wet-lay or dry-carbon products. dry-carbon products are usually only 2-3 layers at most. cfrp I have a r/c off-road buggy that has the cfrp chassi and i can't even tell how many layers they put into them. r/c itself was like $160-170 ...the cfrp chassi was like $100 LOL...
#32
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My point was that carbon fiber must always use a fiberglass base. There is no such thing as solid carbon fiber. You have to take a look at the manufacturing process in order to understand. You can't roll a peice of cloth over nothing to form a shape, it has to be applied to something before it can reinforce that structure. You could say that carbon fiber is just a stronger version of fiberglass. However, to say that it's not real carbon fiber because it contains fiberglass as a base is incorrect.
For example take a look at this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgD9oVw3GJw
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAdVO8Rkv6c
No fiberglass used.
Last edited by RLx02; 12-15-2010 at 04:06 PM.