Hi Boost C55
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2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
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I've heard from Kleemann and also spoken to BlkBnzz and others who have the 113 SC'd and they all seem to advise that 10 psi is ok for a "stock" engine. Like AMG SC says, its above that where the issues are. The stock Kleemann SC installed in the C55 pumps out about 5-7 psi and can go to about 10-11 with a smaller pulley. Mine ranges , depending on the fuel and the dyno between 5-7 psi. The biggest issue is the MAF seems to not like high boost on our cars and also fuel delivery. If anyone knows of a smaller pulley available for my Kleemann and has one to sell, let me know in a PM please. I'd like to go to 10 where Alumar's was before he sold his car.
I've heard from Kleemann and also spoken to BlkBnzz and others who have the 113 SC'd and they all seem to advise that 10 psi is ok for a "stock" engine. Like AMG SC says, its above that where the issues are. The stock Kleemann SC installed in the C55 pumps out about 5-7 psi and can go to about 10-11 with a smaller pulley. Mine ranges , depending on the fuel and the dyno between 5-7 psi. The biggest issue is the MAF seems to not like high boost on our cars and also fuel delivery. If anyone knows of a smaller pulley available for my Kleemann and has one to sell, let me know in a PM please. I'd like to go to 10 where Alumar's was before he sold his car.
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I think the SC pulley will start to slip once you get down to 62mm. My HPS SC pulley was that size and I know it slipped because I frequently felt the RPM suddenly Rev to redline while the car didn't accelarate at all on the highway. After a few months, the belt shredded and snapped leaving me stranded on the side of the freeway. My suggeston is to get a modified crank pulley from ASP. I got my 170MM for $250 shipped from ASP.
Ahmad , I believe, didnt have those problems with his "smaller" pulley on the Kleemann?? My fear is that I go with the ASP crank pulley and then I run into the same issues as the C32 with the pulleys and bearing??
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2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
Do you mean that all the other pullies will spin too fast? Why not go with smaller water pump and alternator pullies (i.e. Evosport underdrive pullies) to offset in increase in crank diameter. It works on my car. As for possible shorter life-span of the bearings on these other pullies, I don't know if has ever been proven that a larger crank pulley caused the bearings to fail on any of the other pullies. Anything smaller than a 60mm pulley will guarantee belt slip unless an extreme wrap tensioner pulley is added but this will cause more stress on the SC shaft and may cause it to crack.
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From: Texas
C63 507 AMG DA Car #19
I have a smaller pulley on my eaton to get me back up to stock kleemann psi after p/p heads. 1000 miles and not belt dust, slipping, or shredding.
My boost dropped almost in half with the installation of the p/p heads.
This sounds like a BEAST OF A BUILD! Forging new ground in the benz mod world is NOT cheap, so I have much respect for your intiative, and flowing of the fun-fundage
Having recently come from the vortech centrifugal _non-intercooled_ mustang world I'm very impressed with my kleemann setup as a daily driver in 105 deg F Heat.... no noticable heat soak, idles/drives near stock, 23mpg on the highway.... and whoa the power is sick. I can only imagine how it will feel in 40 deg air this fall!
Great Build.
My boost dropped almost in half with the installation of the p/p heads.
This sounds like a BEAST OF A BUILD! Forging new ground in the benz mod world is NOT cheap, so I have much respect for your intiative, and flowing of the fun-fundage
Having recently come from the vortech centrifugal _non-intercooled_ mustang world I'm very impressed with my kleemann setup as a daily driver in 105 deg F Heat.... no noticable heat soak, idles/drives near stock, 23mpg on the highway.... and whoa the power is sick. I can only imagine how it will feel in 40 deg air this fall!
Great Build.
Last edited by betrezra; Aug 3, 2011 at 09:15 PM.
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Robert...you need some type of trophy or award. Good or Bad you need one.
I remember you strapping your car to Josh's dyno at HOP like 5 years ago with an HPS II and good intentions. That and you bought me some Del Taco thanks again. I can't beleive I'm still reading about this car.
Good luck with everything. You handle your hobby very well, I know I would have lost it a long time ago.
I remember you strapping your car to Josh's dyno at HOP like 5 years ago with an HPS II and good intentions. That and you bought me some Del Taco
thanks again. I can't beleive I'm still reading about this car.Good luck with everything. You handle your hobby very well, I know I would have lost it a long time ago.
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Do you mean that all the other pullies will spin too fast? Why not go with smaller water pump and alternator pullies (i.e. Evosport underdrive pullies) to offset in increase in crank diameter. It works on my car. As for possible shorter life-span of the bearings on these other pullies, I don't know if has ever been proven that a larger crank pulley caused the bearings to fail on any of the other pullies. Anything smaller than a 60mm pulley will guarantee belt slip unless an extreme wrap tensioner pulley is added but this will cause more stress on the SC shaft and may cause it to crack.
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2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
91 Oct Map is done
A little dissapointed with the peak power but the AFR looks good.
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
I might sell you my 65mm after I make a smaller one. I will wait for the final 100 Octane dyno results today or early next week before asking Rich to make a 62mm pulley.
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C63, SL55, E55, CLS55, ML63, C55
its really not bad power numbers considering its a 91 octane map. Keep in mind the thats a summer blend fuel too. The summer blend gas out here sucks to say the least. Lastly it is a 110 degrees out today.
Keep in mind Rich is only going to give you the power he feels it safely can put down. Also the driveability of your car is going to be at a place it hasn't been in years. I think you are really going to enjoy the car when its all said and done.
The more I read this thread, the more I want a C55 with a true 55k motor. if I was doing it again I would just do a whole motor swap with a trans build.
Keep in mind Rich is only going to give you the power he feels it safely can put down. Also the driveability of your car is going to be at a place it hasn't been in years. I think you are really going to enjoy the car when its all said and done.
The more I read this thread, the more I want a C55 with a true 55k motor. if I was doing it again I would just do a whole motor swap with a trans build.
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
its really not bad power numbers considering its a 91 octane map. Keep in mind the thats a summer blend fuel too. The summer blend gas out here sucks to say the least. Lastly it is a 110 degrees out today.
Keep in mind Rich is only going to give you the power he feels it safely can put down. Also the driveability of your car is going to be at a place it hasn't been in years. I think you are really going to enjoy the car when its all said and done.
The more I read this thread, the more I want a C55 with a true 55k motor. if I was doing it again I would just do a whole motor swap with a trans build.
Keep in mind Rich is only going to give you the power he feels it safely can put down. Also the driveability of your car is going to be at a place it hasn't been in years. I think you are really going to enjoy the car when its all said and done.
The more I read this thread, the more I want a C55 with a true 55k motor. if I was doing it again I would just do a whole motor swap with a trans build.
A 55K motor transplant caused alot of ECU compatibility issues for quite a few people on this forum. Do you know of anyone that had a 100% successfual transplant (all electronic and engine functions working flawlessly? If so, then a transplant might be the easiest and cheapest way to go on this chasis.
Last edited by AMGSC; Aug 4, 2011 at 07:40 PM.
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C63 507 AMG DA Car #19
It will be a BEAST! Congrats.
I don't get too caught up in dyno sheets.... too many variables with software, weather, etc..
I used to work with a guy (f-body stroker dude)..... who carried around a copy of his dyno sheet in his shirt pocket..... he'd whip it out for anyone who would listen or doubted how fast his car was..... get real>
Please post up some pics/vids when you get her in your hands.
Jeff
I don't get too caught up in dyno sheets.... too many variables with software, weather, etc..
I used to work with a guy (f-body stroker dude)..... who carried around a copy of his dyno sheet in his shirt pocket..... he'd whip it out for anyone who would listen or doubted how fast his car was..... get real>
Please post up some pics/vids when you get her in your hands.
Jeff
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Thanks for pointing that out. Actually the more I think about it. I think DynoComp did an amazing job. They increased the power by +50rwhp in triple digit heat and they are still not done yet. The car runs super smooth and performs flawlessly according to his entire team. I'm a happy camper so far.
A 55K motor transplant caused alot of ECU compatibility issues for quite a few people on this forum. Do you know of anyone that had a 100% successfual transplant (all electronic and engine functions working flawlessly? If so, then a transplant might be the easiest and cheapest way to go on this chasis.
A 55K motor transplant caused alot of ECU compatibility issues for quite a few people on this forum. Do you know of anyone that had a 100% successfual transplant (all electronic and engine functions working flawlessly? If so, then a transplant might be the easiest and cheapest way to go on this chasis.
and TCU as well , just ask Rcompart about the SRT conversions he's done. It takes a LOT of time and a LOT of $$$
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2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
Well I called this thread High Boost C55 but now I have the final conclusion for all of you fellow C55 owners.
With lower compression pistons, ported heads, large valves, long tubes, exhaust, etc...this 2.0 litre Kleemann twin screw is running out steam at only 10psi. If you look at the dyno chart from my post up above that the boost is starting to drop after 4500 rpm. This is a sign that the SC cannot keep up with the exhaust system anymore at 10psi. In reality on a stock motor an SC'd C55 with a 170mm crank pulley and a 65mm SC pulley should crank out about 13.5psi. Nevertheless, this SC is maxed out. Sure leaving the pistons at stock compression might get me a few more ponies but not sure it would be safe at 13.5psi over the long run at 11:1 CR ratio.
So this experiment is officially over as far as getting power levels up to a stage 5 E55 which I've seen dynos charts on this forum as high as 570rwhp on a dynojet. I think the final 100 Oct tune will come in officially at around 480rwhp/530rwtq on Dynocomp's DD Dyno by Monday or Tuesday in 109F local temps. Still I'm happy that I'm getting a car back that is going to drive as smooth as stock on 91 octane and with a flip of the RAT switch get me close to 500rwhp on 100 octane map once I get the car back to LA. I will take her to the drags in Sac or Famoso in September or October on a cooler evening and see if it will run some low 11's and maybe even 10's once I install a 150 shot nitrous kit.
With lower compression pistons, ported heads, large valves, long tubes, exhaust, etc...this 2.0 litre Kleemann twin screw is running out steam at only 10psi. If you look at the dyno chart from my post up above that the boost is starting to drop after 4500 rpm. This is a sign that the SC cannot keep up with the exhaust system anymore at 10psi. In reality on a stock motor an SC'd C55 with a 170mm crank pulley and a 65mm SC pulley should crank out about 13.5psi. Nevertheless, this SC is maxed out. Sure leaving the pistons at stock compression might get me a few more ponies but not sure it would be safe at 13.5psi over the long run at 11:1 CR ratio.
So this experiment is officially over as far as getting power levels up to a stage 5 E55 which I've seen dynos charts on this forum as high as 570rwhp on a dynojet. I think the final 100 Oct tune will come in officially at around 480rwhp/530rwtq on Dynocomp's DD Dyno by Monday or Tuesday in 109F local temps. Still I'm happy that I'm getting a car back that is going to drive as smooth as stock on 91 octane and with a flip of the RAT switch get me close to 500rwhp on 100 octane map once I get the car back to LA. I will take her to the drags in Sac or Famoso in September or October on a cooler evening and see if it will run some low 11's and maybe even 10's once I install a 150 shot nitrous kit.
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C32/C55 AMG
So I'm guessing that an E55 supercharger is bit larger than the kleeman. I wonder if you could go with a larger whipple to give you more boost. Does the kleeman kit use an intercooler?
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2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
The E55 supercharger is actually smaller at 1.8 literes vs. the Kleemann 2.0 litre that I have.
Here is the key reason why the AMG/OEM SC's make a bit more boost. The rotors inside the E55 SC are aluminum and hollow vs. the Kleemann SC rotors which are solid steel. This makes the E55 SC lighter and thus takes less crank HP to spin. Secondly there is a 2 to 1 step up gear inside the E55 SC that spins the rotors twice as fast as the Kleemann SC with the same diameter pullies. All this information comes directly from Cory and Brandon at Kleemann USA headquarters.
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Yes, Kleemann SC kits always has a built-in intercooler. In fact the LAMINOVA intercooler is far superior to the AMG SC's intercoolers. That is why the E55s always suffer heat soak but the Kleemann's don't.
The E55 supercharger is actually smaller at 1.8 literes vs. the Kleemann 2.0 litre that I have.
Here is the key reason why the AMG/OEM SC's make a bit more boost. The rotors inside the E55 SC are aluminum and hollow vs. the Kleemann SC rotors which are solid steel. This makes the E55 SC lighter and thus takes less crank HP to spin. Secondly there is a 2 to 1 step up gear inside the E55 SC that spins the rotors twice as fast as the Kleemann SC with the same diameter pullies. All this information comes directly from Cory and Brandon at Kleemann USA headquarters.
The E55 supercharger is actually smaller at 1.8 literes vs. the Kleemann 2.0 litre that I have.
Here is the key reason why the AMG/OEM SC's make a bit more boost. The rotors inside the E55 SC are aluminum and hollow vs. the Kleemann SC rotors which are solid steel. This makes the E55 SC lighter and thus takes less crank HP to spin. Secondly there is a 2 to 1 step up gear inside the E55 SC that spins the rotors twice as fast as the Kleemann SC with the same diameter pullies. All this information comes directly from Cory and Brandon at Kleemann USA headquarters.
I'd love to take the autorotor to at least 8-10. I have the same SC set-up as you, the 2.0 autorotor which is NO longer made.
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C63 507 AMG DA Car #19
I saw a klee video where they showed mfg the rotors and they appeared to be aluminum.... I don't think steel would be a suitable material.
Love your build man! Awesome, can't wait for some 1/4 mile traps/.
Love your build man! Awesome, can't wait for some 1/4 mile traps/.
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
I have not heard back from dynocomp after leaving messages. I hope nothing went wrong with high octane map. I can't wait to get her to the track after I pick her up on Friday.
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Kleemann does not make the blower. They only purchase them from Autorotor and assemble it as part of their kit.
I have not heard back from dynocomp after leaving messages. I hope nothing went wrong with high octane map. I can't wait to get her to the track after I pick her up on Friday.
I have not heard back from dynocomp after leaving messages. I hope nothing went wrong with high octane map. I can't wait to get her to the track after I pick her up on Friday.
The Autorotors were of Swedish design and build I believe. I think Kenne Bell made some that are very similar to the Autorotor as well.
Last edited by Newzchspy; Aug 13, 2011 at 09:26 PM.
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Originally Posted by betrezra;4786744[B
]I saw a klee video where they showed mfg the rotors and they appeared to be aluminum.... I don't think steel would be a suitable material.
[/B]
Love your build man! Awesome, can't wait for some 1/4 mile traps/.
[/B]
Love your build man! Awesome, can't wait for some 1/4 mile traps/.
Autorotor is no longer in business...........
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From: Texas
C63 507 AMG DA Car #19
The kleemann vid on youtube showed them cutting the screw scrolls for the blower..... sure made it appeat they were mfg the parts, they showed acad dwgs of the parts..... perhaps that was from the subcontractor I guess I can't believe everything you see on the net LOL.
I guess I can't believe everything you see on the net LOL.
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
Car is done!
Here are the final Dyno numbers. Given the compression ratios were reduced from 11:1 stock to only 9:1 and only running 10psi instead of the planned 14-18psi, I doubt I have anything to complain about. The dyno was done in 110F temps so I'm sure under better weather conditions and on a DynoJet she might pull a higher number. Does the AFR look too rich on the 100 map?
I know my engine will last a lot longer with a modified lower compression pistons and rods but my concern now lies with how long my SC will last spinning at near maximum capacity. Maybe time to slap a Kenne Bell 2.4Litre on it.
I know my engine will last a lot longer with a modified lower compression pistons and rods but my concern now lies with how long my SC will last spinning at near maximum capacity. Maybe time to slap a Kenne Bell 2.4Litre on it.
Last edited by AMGSC; Aug 18, 2011 at 10:04 PM.
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C55 AMG, 135i, 911 GT3, GLE43 AMG
I think I speak for many people here........TIME TO FINALLY ENJOY DRIVING YOUR CAR!!!
Take it to work, take it to get groceries, take it for a pointless night time or weekend drive, take it to the drag strip, take it to road circuit........it doesn't matter, just DRIVE IT AND TELL US HOW IT FEELS!!!
Take it to work, take it to get groceries, take it for a pointless night time or weekend drive, take it to the drag strip, take it to road circuit........it doesn't matter, just DRIVE IT AND TELL US HOW IT FEELS!!!
Last edited by PC Valkyrie; Aug 18, 2011 at 09:43 PM.
