AMG FANATIC

Quote: "You haven't lived until you've gone down the mineshaft". I have been down the mineshaft many a time: I used to race in the VW Challenge for about 4 years, and did many track days as well. My e-mail is golfwagen@mweb.co.za.
Cheers

M&M

Sweet, but actually I think the mineshaft isn't the most challenging corner at Kyalami. Once you have overcome the mental side you can take it flat. I think the Vodacom sweep is more daunting. Have you been around the new Gosforth track yet?

Vadim @ evosport

First of, M&M welcome to the board.

Second, this topic has been beaten to death over a number of years. If you simply did a search, you would of found the answer to your question.

Most of previous threads covering this topic ended up in mudslinging, so to us you are just another troll trying to steer up some emotion.

Here are several examples:


Thread #1



Thread #2


Thread #3

And there are many more..............

FrankW

hahah...funny stuff....you guys should do stand-up comic

BenzoAMGpower

funny but true... C32 Vs M3 has been a very touchy subject over the years...... we had a rivalry (what started out as friendly ending up very unfriendly) going on here b/w owners of a couple of E46 M3s in south FL and my cousins Stage 1 RENNTech C32.....

at the end of it, I got jumped at a car hangout by some punk kids who love to hit people with who have their backs turned walking away and then one night their fastest E46 M3 was raped by the C32!!! Some of you might know these kids from other forums!!! And some of you might remember that fight that went on b/w us!!! Not to bring up ancient history but what happend happend!!! Its what happens when people get c0cky!!!

1313

Hi guys,

I own a Euro Spec C32 and M Coupe. I have tested both of them on quarter mile and these are the best timings I've got:

M Coupe: 13.7s @ 106mph
C32: 13.8s @ 106mph

I'll say they are pretty equal on qtr mile, however it's not easy to duplicate the best time on the M coupe as you need a perfect launch to get this kind of timing. A bad launch can be as bad as 14.0-14.2. (Pls don't question my skill. I had done some drag competitions before and most of my cars are/were manuals.)

C32 on the other hand is very consistent on every run because of its auto tranny. If an auto and a manual had the same performance, the auto will be the faster car in real life street driving. I know someone who owns a E39 M5 and 540i. Believe it or not, he claims the auto 540i is faster in daily driving.

Take all magazine's reviews with a pinch of salt. I have came across Autocar Nov 2001 posting C32 quarter mile in 13.0s and 0-160km/h in 10.8s and M3 in 11.5s. They claimed C32 is faster in the straight. EVO has tested a M coupe with 0-60mph in 4.6s but I can't get mine to do better than 5.2s.

M and AMG are two different animals. They each have their own merits, so don't compare them. A M/BMW lover will probably never like an AMG/MB and vice versa. But I'm quite sure most of us didn't buy M or AMG just for it's performance. I enjoy their comfort, luxury features, prestige etc as well. Else might as well get a Japanese sports like WRX, EVO or GTR instead.

FrankW

That's right on the money...

although I would love to have both the AMGs and the Ms

Thai

Well, technically speaking, only half of M3's are hard to launch...the other half has SMG, which has a built-in launch control program. Launch control will provide a perfect launch everytime.

s4iscool

Let it go man. No one cares anymore.

Thai

Now, i know that you feel important and all, but i did not think that i was talking to you...thanks for responding anyway!

FrankW

true, but then the ones with the SMG is slower to 60 than it's manual counterpart and it's only as quick as the C32 if the C32 don't have perfect launches every time.

this might be the only case, according to motor trend, the C32's good for 4.77 0-60mph..., but of course you have to consider that at the same time they ran the new S4 at 4.99 0-60mph under the same condition.

anyhow, these are different cars for people with different needs. I'd be glad to have both in the garage or even in the family if my sister decide to get rid of her 00 CLK320 for a new ride.

Thai

Well, according to direct comparo (in the same test) in Road & Track, M3 SMGII was SLIGHTLY faster than C32. You assume that R&T got the best launch from the C32. SMG is slower than manual because the MT launches better off the line. However, SMGII is generally regarded as quicker down the road due to the lightening quick shifts (faster than professional manual shifts), with higher 1/4 mile speed.

I would only compare 0-60 times, 60-0, etc. if the cars are on the SAME test. Otherwise, you can't compare the times due to differing altitude, weather, drivers, etc..

FrankW

actually you would never know if they didn't use the same driver for all the cars in the same test...

oh wellz...it's all good. that's why I mentioned even the S4 was running 4.99.

AWDman

I'm a bit late and some of what i'll say was echoed before...

M&M you said "The one major think you forget is the shape of the power curve & transmission losses. In a sprint an M3 in always between 6000-8000rpm after 1st gear. I assume a C32 is between 5000-7000rpm. Have a look at how the C32 power drops off after 5500rpm. Roots type blowers are great for low down torque but not so good at high rpm with the parasitic losses associated with them."


The c32 makes peak power at 5500 rpm, but you forget redline is 6100 rpm. It's a more efficient lysholm not a roots supercharger....if you look at area under the curve assuming redline shifts both cars then the c32 has more usable power. (ie - look at power/torque under the curve between redline and lower rpm shift point in the higher ratio).

look- these are two different cars. i deliberated for 9 months before picking the c32- based on my intended use- effortless, comfortable, quick, distance touring. if i han an m3, it would be stick and damm sure i would not be drag racing, that car is meant for lap days.. i'd be at every event NASA, SCCA or EMRA ran.

it's amazing how folks buy something and attach themself to it. guys, we're not married to the cars we own. It's a tool, use it appropriately. i wish we all had enough money so as to afford and m3 AND c32. And a bunch of other cars as well. :-)

bottom line- they are both fantastic cars.

simonlam168

I raced with M3 this morning.
There were 3 people in my car. (including me) and 1 people in M3.
I dust him at least 5 cl from 65mph to 130mph.
I think his M3 is stock.

Thai

Yeah...ok...FIVE car lengths with 3 people on board! You must have a freak C32 even with all those mods! Or, the M3 driver was Jabba-the-Hut!

FIVE car lengths! Geez!

simonlam168

I got 367 HP in 4th gear.

(Pulleys + Powerchips + IC + SL55 full intake + Dual Exhaust <no mufflers> + 98 Octane + Gold Mobil One 0W50)

AWDman

power aside.....the Cd for the e46 m3 is 0.32. the c32 is 0.27....this becomes a factor as speed rises..........

simonlam168

A friend of mine C32 (Only ODPS) raced with his friend Porsche 996 C4 from
0 mph to 65 mph. He dusts his friend 4 to 5 cl.
So I think I won 5 cl is resonable even though I had 3 people sitting on my car.

simonlam168

BTW, I have owned E46 M3 manual before. I know M3 too well.
No low end torque.

Thai

Ok...sure...now i believe you!

yeah, no torque...how about gearing?? Or how about the 6-speed manual ratios?? I can be in the powerband at any speed with the manual tranny...so, no torque becomes much less of an issue if i stay in my powerband + final drive ratio. Look, no matter what tests you look at, M3 is faster than C32 by A TINY BIT from any speed. 0-30, 0-60, 0-100, 0-130, 0-100-0, etc.. So, a C32 can definitely beat an M3 and vice-versa...but NOT BY 5 CAR LENGTHS...even with modified 367 HP!

Vomit

I can personally verify Simonlam's claims. Getting on the15 freeway onramp today with a silver E46 today. . . we had been playing traffic hockey for 5 minutes or so. . . trying to find an opening to run the beasts. We both had to turn right onto the freeway. . . he turned and I was right behind him. He and I punched it at the same time, and I practically ran him over. I swung left into the carpool lane, which I saw ended and merged back with his lane in about 100 yards. A moment's doubt (but not enough to actually take my foot off the accelerator) while I decided whether to risk trying to pass him before the lanes merged. Figured that the emergency lane was always the last resort, and went for it. No problem at all. Even got to watch him madly rowing gears as I blew past him. . .

He was a scrawny dude with a tiny chickie in the passenger seat. Probably weighed 260-270 between the two. The Vomit-hass displaces 230, so it wasn't a huge weight diff.

Granted, my car is Evosported (Pulley, ECU, SL55 Intake, K&Ns), but my point is that a modded C32 can really open up some WOOPASS on a stock E46. Especially given Simonlam's conservative postings, I have no doubt that his description of his encounter is 100% accurate.

Thai

Ok, that story made me a believer!

EDIT: why are even talking about modded cars?? BTW, you do realize that Dinan and AA are coming out with superchargers for the E46 M3...rated at least 420 hp at the crank; Dinan claims 460 hp. They "claim" perfect tractability and good reliability...i have my doubts, but until then, it sure sounds good!

KL316

but thats crank, they rate it 360 at the wheels, a stage II C32 runs like 370 crank and is cheaper than the AA supercharger

KL316

i thought only AA was coming out wit a supercharger, i read somewhere that dinan stated he would not develope a supercharger for the S54