Autocar: M3 v C55AMG
05-18-2004, 04:32 PM
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BMW Z4 M Roadster
Autocar: M3 v C55AMG
M3-more fun to drive, better cabin & the last of the great pre-bangled cars!!
C55-1-dimensional, not quicker than C32 & slower than M3 but better cruiser!!
C55-1-dimensional, not quicker than C32 & slower than M3 but better cruiser!!
05-18-2004, 05:44 PM
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'14 428i M-Sport, '02 C32 AMG
they confirmed it's not quicker than C32?
is it at all slower? this calms some of my fears that C32 would be completely obsolete. i have heard though, that the C55 is much better handling.
is it at all slower? this calms some of my fears that C32 would be completely obsolete. i have heard though, that the C55 is much better handling.
05-18-2004, 08:25 PM
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2002 C32 Black/Charcoal
Life is full of shades of grey, not blacks and whites. IMHO, the C55 is a SLIGHTLY prettier shade of grey than the C32. Certainly not black vs. white.
To even consider that the C32 would be made totally obsolete by the C55 is loco. The only way that the C32 would've been castrated by the C55 is if MBZ had dropped the supercharged 5.5 from the E55/SL55 into it. The normally-aspirated C55 is a little nicer than the C32, but it is also proportionately more expensive. If they were side-by-side for the same price, I would take the C55. With a 5K price difference, it would be a toss-up. With a 10K price difference, I would snap up the C32 faster than a hooker in a sausage factory.
The C32 is a very fine vehicle, and I am absolutely certain that it will go down in vehicle history as a classic sporting Benz (fast, comfortable, tuneable). From the outset I have stated that the C55 is, at best, a marginal improvement over the C32. If anything, I think that the value of the C32 will go UP with the introduction of the C55, because of the higher price of the new C55 forcing some to consider the used C32 as a more economical option. Indeed, alot of people can afford 40K for a used C32, but another 20K weeds out alot of "sortofmakingits."
I would be far more concerned if I owned a SLK32. The new SLK is a pretty significant visual and dynamic improvement over the old model.
To even consider that the C32 would be made totally obsolete by the C55 is loco. The only way that the C32 would've been castrated by the C55 is if MBZ had dropped the supercharged 5.5 from the E55/SL55 into it. The normally-aspirated C55 is a little nicer than the C32, but it is also proportionately more expensive. If they were side-by-side for the same price, I would take the C55. With a 5K price difference, it would be a toss-up. With a 10K price difference, I would snap up the C32 faster than a hooker in a sausage factory.
The C32 is a very fine vehicle, and I am absolutely certain that it will go down in vehicle history as a classic sporting Benz (fast, comfortable, tuneable). From the outset I have stated that the C55 is, at best, a marginal improvement over the C32. If anything, I think that the value of the C32 will go UP with the introduction of the C55, because of the higher price of the new C55 forcing some to consider the used C32 as a more economical option. Indeed, alot of people can afford 40K for a used C32, but another 20K weeds out alot of "sortofmakingits."
I would be far more concerned if I owned a SLK32. The new SLK is a pretty significant visual and dynamic improvement over the old model.
05-19-2004, 02:26 AM
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white and whiter
Re: Autocar: M3 v C55AMG
Originally posted by Gabri343
M3-more fun to drive, better cabin & the last of the great pre-bangled cars!!
M3-more fun to drive, better cabin & the last of the great pre-bangled cars!!
05-19-2004, 03:53 AM
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C32
[i
From the outset I have stated that the C55 is, at best, a marginal improvement over the C32.
[/B]
From the outset I have stated that the C55 is, at best, a marginal improvement over the C32.
[/B]
Eventhough the C55 has a much sportier setup, will be no match for an M3 on the track, it is still at its best for those who like power and comfort.
They should have put the compressor version in ...
05-19-2004, 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by bverotti
I agree Vomit. Although a V8 sounds much better, the C55 is not really faster than the C32. The minor touch ups on the inside and outside are nice, but not world shaking.
Eventhough the C55 has a much sportier setup, will be no match for an M3 on the track, it is still at its best for those who like power and comfort.
They should have put the compressor version in ...
I agree Vomit. Although a V8 sounds much better, the C55 is not really faster than the C32. The minor touch ups on the inside and outside are nice, but not world shaking.
Eventhough the C55 has a much sportier setup, will be no match for an M3 on the track, it is still at its best for those who like power and comfort.
They should have put the compressor version in ...
C55 is still a nice car, and I dont think its going to sway M3 buyers away from the E46 to the C class. The buyers are a bit different.
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05-19-2004, 11:26 AM
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From EVO
For 95% of the time, the C55 makes a better road car for most people. But on those odd occasions when you really want to feel alive, the C55 fails to involve you like an M3. The new AMG C-class is an improvement alright, but not the fundamental stepchange that would tempt enthusiasts out of their M-cars.
IMO pretty fair comments to me
For 95% of the time, the C55 makes a better road car for most people. But on those odd occasions when you really want to feel alive, the C55 fails to involve you like an M3. The new AMG C-class is an improvement alright, but not the fundamental stepchange that would tempt enthusiasts out of their M-cars.
IMO pretty fair comments to me
05-19-2004, 12:04 PM
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CLK63 Black Series
having the opportunity to drive both engines back to back on a daily basis, i would have to stick with the V6 Kompressor over the V8 anyday. Though the exhaust note on the V8 is to die for over the V6k, i feel that the C32 has alot more kick to it then the CLK although on paper they are about even. The suspension, compared stock to stock, the CLK has the advantage over the rather subtle C32.
05-20-2004, 05:09 AM
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Originally posted by Jon200
From EVO
For 95% of the time, the C55 makes a better road car for most people. But on those odd occasions when you really want to feel alive, the C55 fails to involve you like an M3. The new AMG C-class is an improvement alright, but not the fundamental stepchange that would tempt enthusiasts out of their M-cars.
IMO pretty fair comments to me
From EVO
For 95% of the time, the C55 makes a better road car for most people. But on those odd occasions when you really want to feel alive, the C55 fails to involve you like an M3. The new AMG C-class is an improvement alright, but not the fundamental stepchange that would tempt enthusiasts out of their M-cars.
IMO pretty fair comments to me
05-20-2004, 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by AMG BRED
having the opportunity to drive both engines back to back on a daily basis
having the opportunity to drive both engines back to back on a daily basis
05-20-2004, 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by Jon200
It was also mentioned in the article that the M3 have out sold the C32 in the ratio of 10 to 1
damn.....
It was also mentioned in the article that the M3 have out sold the C32 in the ratio of 10 to 1
damn.....
05-20-2004, 03:56 PM
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white and whiter
Originally posted by Jon200
It was also mentioned in the article that the M3 have out sold the C32 in the ratio of 10 to 1
damn.....
It was also mentioned in the article that the M3 have out sold the C32 in the ratio of 10 to 1
damn.....
05-20-2004, 10:34 PM
#15
I can't wait until Mercedes begins to relize that "No Replacement for Displacement" only works for so long, and then you actually have to throw in a matching gearbox as well.
Why not get a Getrag 6 speed, mate it to a fast (read: at least 150ms shifts) auto, and bam, sell it as an AMG line instead of throwing a damned supercharger into everything!
I want my performance car, I want my Mercedes, and I want them both in one fast sedan-looking vehicle!
Why not get a Getrag 6 speed, mate it to a fast (read: at least 150ms shifts) auto, and bam, sell it as an AMG line instead of throwing a damned supercharger into everything!
I want my performance car, I want my Mercedes, and I want them both in one fast sedan-looking vehicle!
05-21-2004, 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by vraa
Why not get a Getrag 6 speed, mate it to a fast (read: at least 150ms shifts) auto, and bam, sell it as an AMG line instead of throwing a damned supercharger into everything!
Why not get a Getrag 6 speed, mate it to a fast (read: at least 150ms shifts) auto, and bam, sell it as an AMG line instead of throwing a damned supercharger into everything!
05-21-2004, 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by s4iscool
Why does that bother you? I like that stat because i see at least 3-4 m3's a day in town...never seen another C32.
Why does that bother you? I like that stat because i see at least 3-4 m3's a day in town...never seen another C32.
05-21-2004, 10:37 AM
#18
AMG is supposed to be for the enthusiast right? More so then the MPower (I see it that way because "everyone" knows what an M3 or M5 is, but the 32's, 55,'s 65's etc., are like.. *blank faces*) so we should have higher quality, quicker stuff. Things that make our car.. well our car. Not some sub-standard gearbox with a substandard engine that has some sort of forced induction which some may view it as *cheating* on it.
The pure driving machine should be an AMG. They have the ability and they have the followers, I sure as hell would buy one, and I know a lot of yall would buy one too! And we'd get a few of those Bimmer guys also. Sales go up, R&D gets goes up, better car, less problems more power in the end.. through some flawed logic
The pure driving machine should be an AMG. They have the ability and they have the followers, I sure as hell would buy one, and I know a lot of yall would buy one too! And we'd get a few of those Bimmer guys also. Sales go up, R&D gets goes up, better car, less problems more power in the end.. through some flawed logic
05-21-2004, 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by vraa
AMG is supposed to be for the enthusiast right? More so then the MPower (I see it that way because "everyone" knows what an M3 or M5 is, but the 32's, 55,'s 65's etc., are like.. *blank faces*) so we should have higher quality, quicker stuff. Things that make our car.. well our car. Not some sub-standard gearbox with a substandard engine that has some sort of forced induction which some may view it as *cheating* on it.
The pure driving machine should be an AMG. They have the ability and they have the followers, I sure as hell would buy one, and I know a lot of yall would buy one too! And we'd get a few of those Bimmer guys also. Sales go up, R&D gets goes up, better car, less problems more power in the end.. through some flawed logic
AMG is supposed to be for the enthusiast right? More so then the MPower (I see it that way because "everyone" knows what an M3 or M5 is, but the 32's, 55,'s 65's etc., are like.. *blank faces*) so we should have higher quality, quicker stuff. Things that make our car.. well our car. Not some sub-standard gearbox with a substandard engine that has some sort of forced induction which some may view it as *cheating* on it.
The pure driving machine should be an AMG. They have the ability and they have the followers, I sure as hell would buy one, and I know a lot of yall would buy one too! And we'd get a few of those Bimmer guys also. Sales go up, R&D gets goes up, better car, less problems more power in the end.. through some flawed logic
Well I don't think we should bash the speedshift so much. It is honestly the best automatic I have driven. Better than Audi's, BMW (can't comment on the porsche but I heard it is not even that good). So in that way we do have the sportiest automatic available. Also our engine is not exactly substandard as well as many porsche drivers i know will begrudgingly admit to. With the steering shift buttons i would be happy with it as a performance car. To be a true pure performance car you need a manual and a clutch, there is just no substitute - SMG and F1 paddle shifters be damned.
The problem with the car is it just feels soft. The throttle application feels soft and a little unpredictable. The brakes aren't precise and consistent and also the suspension is very soft and squirrely. Add to that the fact that we are undertired and smaller size wheels and that is why we can't compete with sharper cars like the m3. Fix those problems and AMG will be closer to the M3. But is that what people want? How many people who own AMG cars aren't on the message board. How many people just want a car that can go fast as heck
my .02
Prasith
05-21-2004, 03:13 PM
#20
Originally posted by Prasith32
Well I don't think we should bash the speedshift so much. It is honestly the best automatic I have driven. Better than Audi's, BMW (can't comment on the porsche but I heard it is not even that good). So in that way we do have the sportiest automatic available. Also our engine is not exactly substandard as well as many porsche drivers i know will begrudgingly admit to. With the steering shift buttons i would be happy with it as a performance car. To be a true pure performance car you need a manual and a clutch, there is just no substitute - SMG and F1 paddle shifters be damned.
The BMW driver has an option to chose between manual or SMG. We don't, and seeing how we don't and the SMG can shift within 80ms, it seems kind of obvious to give us something that could shift at least near that speed and efficency. Audi's DSG is great, but still tricky sometimes as it gets confused (or maybe that was just me) and BMW's 11 (I think?) different stages for shifting is perfect. Speedshift is still great, but it leaves a lot to be desired. And the engines? Perfect engines, just not mated to the best of tranny's, chassis' you name it. Even CAR magazine said that when concering why the E55 wasn't one of the finalists. The engine was just too powerful.
Personally, I like the manumatics. I love the fact that when I want, I'll floor it and go without a care, and later on that night I can take it out for a spin with the family.
The problem with the car is it just feels soft. The throttle application feels soft and a little unpredictable. The brakes aren't precise and consistent and also the suspension is very soft and squirrely. Add to that the fact that we are undertired and smaller size wheels and that is why we can't compete with sharper cars like the m3. Fix those problems and AMG will be closer to the M3. But is that what people want? How many people who own AMG cars aren't on the message board. How many people just want a car that can go fast as heck
I agree with everything you said here. It's the minor things that throw in our win against the M3 (vs C32) to a draw (not a loss, we can easily still keep up with them with four doors!)
my .02
Please, your thought out opinion is worth more then just two cents!
Prasith
Well I don't think we should bash the speedshift so much. It is honestly the best automatic I have driven. Better than Audi's, BMW (can't comment on the porsche but I heard it is not even that good). So in that way we do have the sportiest automatic available. Also our engine is not exactly substandard as well as many porsche drivers i know will begrudgingly admit to. With the steering shift buttons i would be happy with it as a performance car. To be a true pure performance car you need a manual and a clutch, there is just no substitute - SMG and F1 paddle shifters be damned.
The BMW driver has an option to chose between manual or SMG. We don't, and seeing how we don't and the SMG can shift within 80ms, it seems kind of obvious to give us something that could shift at least near that speed and efficency. Audi's DSG is great, but still tricky sometimes as it gets confused (or maybe that was just me) and BMW's 11 (I think?) different stages for shifting is perfect. Speedshift is still great, but it leaves a lot to be desired. And the engines? Perfect engines, just not mated to the best of tranny's, chassis' you name it. Even CAR magazine said that when concering why the E55 wasn't one of the finalists. The engine was just too powerful.
Personally, I like the manumatics. I love the fact that when I want, I'll floor it and go without a care, and later on that night I can take it out for a spin with the family.
The problem with the car is it just feels soft. The throttle application feels soft and a little unpredictable. The brakes aren't precise and consistent and also the suspension is very soft and squirrely. Add to that the fact that we are undertired and smaller size wheels and that is why we can't compete with sharper cars like the m3. Fix those problems and AMG will be closer to the M3. But is that what people want? How many people who own AMG cars aren't on the message board. How many people just want a car that can go fast as heck
I agree with everything you said here. It's the minor things that throw in our win against the M3 (vs C32) to a draw (not a loss, we can easily still keep up with them with four doors!)
my .02
Please, your thought out opinion is worth more then just two cents!
Prasith
05-21-2004, 04:24 PM
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2002 c32
cheating and forced induction..
Hey Roozy, how about adding to the list the Ferrari F-40 (with "IHI" chargers -same that make the c32 one)
lap
lap
05-21-2004, 05:18 PM
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white and whiter
Re: cheating and forced induction..
Originally posted by lap
Hey Roozy, how about adding to the list the Ferrari F-40 (with "IHI" chargers -same that make the c32 one)
lap
Hey Roozy, how about adding to the list the Ferrari F-40 (with "IHI" chargers -same that make the c32 one)
lap
05-22-2004, 06:05 PM
#25
Trust me, I'm not one to think it's cheating, hell however you get to the line faster, that's better for us consumers. It's just another argument those MPower Boys love using against us and once we get that fixed, it's another reason to claim that AMG is truly faster in every sense compared to MPower.
