cntlaw

Improvize
Truly, I must say I enjoy the way you write. You must be a lawyer.
Keep going
cnt

Improviz

Thanks! No, not a lawyer, not yet anyway...I have been contemplating a career change, and am planning on taking the LSAT later this year. Thanks for the encouragement!

cntlaw

Honestly, I have no idea whether M3 or C55 which is faster. My only experience with m3 was once I was one of the passengers at the back seats on a trip to the Fuji Mt. But I do feek that I should support the experts here to shut some BMW owners big mouths. I am getting less and less convinced that BMWs are reliable cars; they are just full of minor problems. While I have the privilege as an owner being in the MB forum; I hate someone throw a BMW to my face and tell me to eat it.

ProjectC55

LOL! I think you're all nuts! But you guys sure love your MB's.I do too.

cntlaw

Improviz
Just noticed......one more of your post , you will be a MB fanatic!!

Improviz

It's official!!

cntlaw

Considering the length of each of your post, your 1000th is virtually 10000th

M&M

Mmmmm, you sure got me there man. BUT WAIT? WHAT'S THIS. MM&FF magazine did a feature on Lee's car (with the seats in this time Chimp) & it ran 12.8. You want me to point you to the issue? Thanks for coming have a nice day my boy.

Improviz

Sure. Post it. Because I've read the article, and it was not a test, merely a secondhand claim. Further, liar monkey boy, it was not a "feature" about his car at all.

Post it. And while you're at it, post a link to any instrumented road test from any car magazine on the planet where a stock M3 on stock tires ran in the 12's.

AgentQ

The nice thing to know is that it'll never be hard to find an M3 to race.

There's one on every corner.

jtc55

hey improviz, you are the debating f**kin king!!! your posts are precise, to the point, and backed up by facts. don't let that trolling M&M get the last BS word!! BTW, off-topic, what ever happened to the other troll APK? did he ever race any 55ers at the track?

Improviz

Thanks, and don't worry!! What this guy is trying to do and who he represents are clear enough to see, given his three-year history of trolling BMWs competitors' forums and posting disinformation. And he's not the only one...consider:

1) both he and a newly-arrived troll, one "the hawk" (presumably here to hawk BMWs), have posted the same road test results from the same magazine using the same thread title in our forums, months apart:

2) have a look at the threads started by another guy who comes here to market BMWs, one gabri343:
gabri343's posting history

Now, compare the thread titles with Monkey & Moron's posting history:
Monkey & Moron's posting history:

Wow, it's almost like they're reading from the same script...but I'm sure it's a coincidence, and not a marketing campaign at work, that these guys frequent BMW competitors' forums day in, day out, for years, and post the same articles, repeatedly.

Naw, he refused to show, despite first talking tons of trash, promising to take on any & all comers....we invited him on six or seven separate occasions, and got a new excuse every time. Read through those posts and watch him wiggle!! :-)

M&M

Improman, I didn't say that a magazine got 12's with a stock M3. I said it's POSSIBLE for a stock M3 to run 12's. There are a few guys that have done it already stock. Of course I can't prove that to you, & even if I could you wouldn't believe me. But I don't know why you have some kind of complex or something. If you showed me evidence of a stock C32/C55 running 12's, I would believe it. I know its easy to change the pulley & no-one will know its modified, but I'm not that type of person to go around saying everyone on earth is a liar.

Anyway, back to my point that its POSSIBLE under goos conditions for a stock M3 to run 12's. HEre's SPort Auto's test of the M3. I don't think you can get a more credible source that this. If you want to discredit SPOrt Auto then you are an idiot.

This M3 is fully loaded with moonroof, electric seats, Satnav, etc. They did not adjust the tyre pressures, they did not cool the manifold. They did not run race fuel. They did not run it on low fuel. Its just a magazine test at a testihg venue that has no VHT or other preparation done on the surface. They use the VBOX GPS based equipment to measure performance so the clock starts as soon as the car moves. At a drag strip you would have a few inches of roll-out before the clock starts, which would make th time better.

Now, the car ran 13.0 despite all of this. I ask you know, is it not possible for a stock M3 to run 12's?

AgentQ

What those numbers show is that the M3 got a better launch by .2s and every other number shows that the C55 accelerated at exactly the same rate after that. And that is NOT a 1/4 mile run, it's a run to 200km/h (124 mph) regardless of distance. Neither the M3 nor the C55 is going to hit 124mph in the 1/4 mile.

Wow. I just noticed that the S4, M3, and C55 in this test take exactly 9.5s from 80-200kph. That's very interesting.

1313

Take Magazines reviews with pinch of salt. British Autocar shows C32 is faster in ALL departments. 400m, rolling start, 0-100 etc....

400m is C32 13.0s vs M3's 13.4. Check out the trap speed at 1000m. 142mph vs M3's 139mph. The higher the speed goes, the more advantage AMG has.

My C32 is no where 13.0s and M3 is also no where near 13.4s.

Btw, they picked M3 for overall balance between handling and power and a more engaging drive. But that doesn't mean it is faster in the straight line.

M&M

Ummmmmm, there's a line under ther that says

400 metre standing start

400m = 1/4 mile (give or take a few feet)

And I still can't believe the amount of flak I get for having an opinion. I believe a stock M3 can do 12's under ideal conditions. I think there is ample proof of that. A few people have done in a few different countries. Obviously Chmproviz is going to come here & say they were lying & they had hidden mods, etc. So if that's what he believes then I'm happy for him. GO on living in a dream world & block your ears.

BTW, I also believe a stock C32/C55 can also get into the 12's. It is highly unlikely that a C32/55/M3 can do 12's stock, but it is possible. But that's just my opinion.

M&M

YEah you see. C32 does 13.0 under different conditions. So I beleive a C32 can also do 12's stock. What's the best Improviz isn't going to argue with me about that. Here's another review while we're at it:

M&M

M3 SMG, which is slower than the 6MT.

1313

Dear M&M,

That's why I say take magazines' reviews with a pinch of salt. I believe in what I personally see. That's why I pulled both my M3 and C32 side by side to see it for myself. I think 5:0 is a very good indication.

We can argue till the cows come home. At the end of the day, they are very close in reality. A good driver will usually make the difference. If both drivers were similarly skilled, the C32 will have a slight advantage. Having said that, I won't rule out that possibility of some M3s edging ahead of some C32s or C55s out of the factory.

From personal experience, I come across more cases of AMG being faster. My friend who is driving s STI told me recently he could stay with a M3 up to about 100mph. But I always pull away from him when I'm driving my C32.

M&M

1313, I have no problem believing what you say. In fact I have heard the same from my buddies that have C55's. The silver one in the pics, he has a C55 & an M3 (E36 Euro 321hp), so he isn't biased. He says that a few times he has had on-road encounter with M3's he has edged them slightly.

And yet when we run I edge him. EVen my other buddy with an E46 M3 edges away from the C55 on a rolling run. This is provided you are in the right gear & your revs are up. And yet we once had some tests & a 3rd E46 M3 was there. This time around the C55 was edging away from the M3.

So, no 2 cars are the same. Even at the strip, you see a huge variance in trap speeds. Besides driver, there's also state if the clutch, tyres, how much fuel in the car, what fuel, state of oil, pluls etc. When 2 cars are so closely matched maybe, even having a full tank of gas & a set of golf clubs in the trunk might make a difference.

AMG///Merc

I thought that it should be mentioned that most magazine times are "corrected numbers", meaning that they use a correction formula that is supposed to represent what the particular car will do under ideal circumstances (Usually correction factors for altitude and temperature).

However, I have to side with M&M in that I believe that it is possible for a stock M3 to run a high 12 second quarter mile, but I also believe that those are particularly healthy M3's driven in perfect conditions and by an excellent driver. I don't think that it's a fair representation of your average M3's performance. As I had mentioned in my last post, having owned an M3 before, I believe that the M3 is quicker from a standing start (Note: Quicker than my CLK55 which is fractionally slower than the C55 due to more weight), and bear in mind that a tenth or two saved at the start equates to several tenths to half a second over the quarter mile.

Acceleration from a roll is a different story, and I firmly believe that the C55/CLK55 is the faster car in that regard. The difference is greater when you roll from higher speeds, and once you're at freeway speeds (75-80 mph), the AMG cars have a definite advantage.

Here's another point that I think some people fail to mention... While the M3 may be quicker off the line (For those who still aren't convinced), and while the M3 has a clear handling advantage (Albeit not by nearly as much as most people seem to think), the C55/CLK55 will still "win" in most street encounters, which are usually highway roll-ons (At least around here anyway), or engagements on relatively windy roads where it's just not tight enough for the M3 to capitalize on its superior handling. The C55/CLK55 handle very well in high speed sweepers, and are extremely stable at speed.

I'd like to hear how an M3 driver would explain to his girlfriend about how his M3 "Would have won if we were on a racetrack..." after he just got beat by a C55. It's going to sound like a whole lot of "woulda, coulda, shoulda" in her opinion...


Best regards,
Matt

FrankW

I guess M&M is too retarded to realize the DAMP next to the C55's test numbers.

M&M

OK Frank, here's one done in the dry. You want more? I have 3 more.

http://www.autozeitung.de/index.php?...tb=8&current=2

ultraseven

I've seen those slips and articles on several occasions already. It seems like this is a decent part time job my friend. Where can I apply and which forums do I need to put a mark on ?

Bigdot

SMG 1 is POS, SMG 2 is acually AMAZEING!! it is faster shifting than the F1 tranny on the Ferraris. but if you were talking about SMG 1 than yes, it sucks, but SMG 2 blow my mind!!


Mark