taxi driver

Do we judge the C43 stock differential as being weak, seems like many here
think so. I am going to upgrade my C43 to a 210mm diff, in this case it is a
3.06 ASD diff from a W124 E320.

I think we should reffer to the MB terminology i.e the size of the carrier,
168mm,185mm or 210mm.

The 3.07 in the case of our cars is the 185mm type, if it was the rare
w202 C55 then it is the 210mm diff as in the for ex. E55 W210 and W208
CLK55 they also have the 2.82 gearing.

So in order to reinforce the weak point the idea to build one LSD unit from one
185mm ASD diff as you can read about in the W124 section, limited slip differential for W124,
AMG Dave has a very thorough explanation there.
Now when I came across this 210mm diff w ASD there is one good thing
the right gearing tougher internals, but how do I make it fit?

As I see it there are two ways to do it, if it is possible to rebuild this one
the way you can see the 185mm ASD is done by removing the ringcylinders
and using the open diff output shafts w other flange seals.
I don't know yet if it is possible do do the same to the 210mm ASD eight
bolted ringcylinders by converting the output shafts to open diff shorter type
in order to make the diff narrow between the output flanges.

If it's too complicated to change over, then I will keep the ASD diff as it is
and shorten the halfshafts to copensate for the wider flange to flange messure.

If the locking action lsd will be by resetting the preload or by operating the
ringcylinders I dont know.. any objections?? Roger

money-one

By no means is the rear differential weak. It is just the fact it's lacking an LSD in an AMG car.
To be honest I never measured any of the rings when I had them apart. I went soley by the diff. housings. If the part # were the same then I knew the internals would swap around. The diff. I swapped to would be categorized as the WEAK one. The best one to go to in our chassis would be the 210mm diff.
I wasn't aware that the w124 came with 210mm
My C43 came with the 185mm. That was removed and I swapped in the 165mm LSD internals from the w201 chassis and the 165mm diff. from a w124 coupe. I never cross swapped from the different sizes. Not to say it is not possible.
The 210mm would be best because you would be able to get a Quaife to fit in it. The E430 also has the 2.82 ratio and looks like it has the driveshaft flange that would work with our stock driveshaft. The AMG flanges have 4 bolt holes not 3 like ours. You will need the rear diff. cover from a CLK55 (208) Once together it would just bolt right in.
I don't know what you are refering to when you say resetting preload and the ringcylinders

michealjackson

The car now seems to drift from side instead of steering like a normal car.
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taxi driver

Hi AMG DAVE did explain very good about converting the ASD 185mm diff
to LSD *restting the preload* does concern the clutchpack after removal
of the hydraulic ringcylinders, quite an easy job it seems for the 185mm unit
if the same goes for the 210mm ASD diff I don't know yet, thanks for your
reply and work, the 210mm or not from the W124 I'm not 100% sure
but it has the eight bolted ringcylinders and flange seal instead of the
twobolted in the 185mm diff .. Roger

taxi driver

Hi , trying to clearify the DIFFerence in ratio and the medium vs large diff
housing 185 to 210mm.

The 185mm diff ASD or open W124 does have the two bolted hydraulic ASD
cylinders or when open diff it has two unused threaded holes beside the
flange seal. The 185mm does not have the same ratio # forinstance 3.07
when the 210mm diff has 3.06, 3.67 vs 3.69 , 2.87 vs 2.82 if the 2.65 has
a 185mm counterpart i'm not sure but obviously to separate the housings
by different gearing # is the only explanation.?

The 210mm on the other hand has ringcylinders or flangeseal housings eight
bolted respectively. Maybe other contemporary models
W202 even W208 W210 W140 R129 has the same as long as the output
driveshafts were mounted in the diffhousing newer differentials have the
complete driveshaft w splined inner end pushed into the housing.

It seems MB was using the same housing for ASD and open diff application,
the ASR housing was unique and only came with 210mm gear set.

I found some pictures to make things a bit more clear..Roger

E55 2.82,124 320 3.06, 185vs210mm, 124 320 3.06ASD

taxi driver

Here is the 185mm ASD W and WO ASD cylinders thanks Amg Dave.

kennedyusa

Interesting thought, i completely agree with your perspective

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money-one

The gearing from diff. to diff. has varied from ultra low to super high. The different size engines, diesel or gas, transmission auto or manual, and model specific and year in which it was produced had a bearing on it. Mercedes didn't want lower level cars to beat their higher level , so they altered their rear ends to slow them down or speed them up. They slowed down on the huge amount of ratios because they now can electronicly limit power output. That is why you can have the exact same engine in 3 different cars producing 3 different outputs.

Thank you and thank AMG Dave too. I was not fully aware of the ASD and its internals. I have yet to come across one and only heard of how it operated.
That 210mm is also located in the E420 (W210) and S420. ASD equipped I dont know

The hard part about doing any of our swaps is locating the parts. As time goes buy it only becomes harder especially in the U.S. ASD or viscous clutching LSD's are super rare so making one fit anyones specific application has only pushed people to think outside of the box. Mercedes really screwed up on thinking all their high powered cars didn't deserve a respectable rear end. Electronics can only take you so far.

Side note: I so wish they imported the C43 wagon here. Nothing like a touring sleeper with a V8 under the hood. Your Sig only makes me want to move out of the country.

Jake

taxi driver

Side note: I so wish they imported the C43 wagon here. Nothing like a touring sleeper with a V8 under the hood. Your Sig only makes me want to move out of the country.

Jake

Jake, I guess we are lucky here in Europe also in Sweden where you can
find a lot of donor differentials esp. w ASD and some earlier LSD from the
W126 series ( for my 500E ) I'm also fond of the sporty compact estate
esp this with it's rare interior combination walnut/ blue/black seats.

About the diff upgrade, initially because I found it's rearend being quite
sloppy and banging when kicking down, severe backlash in the differential
gear carrier.
When the *new* diff is in place there will be the obvious E55 engine swap,
sometimes I wonder why I should have 50hp more, but as we know power
is corrupting. Pictures from the office and when recieving new motor and
gearbox mounts. Roger

money-one

Not one to be waking up old threads but I figure puting all my information on as few a threads as possible would cut down on the clutter and misinformation that is rampant on this forum.

For those not aware I had managed to shear 5 teeth off of the drive pinion in my 190e LSD about a month ago. This prompted an upgrade I was hoping to put off for the future. I discovered that the 210mm diff. was capable of being installed into my chassis with a few factory parts. As many have come to know this is the upgrade that was offered to the few owners that opted for the C55 package offered by Mercedes AMG division. They came with the CLK55 (208) E55 (210) differential with the standard 2.82 ratio. This was the route I went in. I located and ordered one and contacted Kleemann in hopes of purchasing a software upgrade with the new ratio. Sadly my car is not capable of a new flash. So...If you own a vehicle with a 722.6 trans with no tip-shift your in the same boat as me. FYI: Your car will go into limp mode when you introduce a wrong rear end ratio n not shift. This is where I took a gamble and ordered a diff. from a CLK55 (209) C32 (203) with a 3.06 ratio. Peiced it together and installed it with fingers crossed. The road test came up good. The car shifts and reaches top speed fine. Only draw back I found was a slight delay in shift but it has been slowly going away as I drive her.

Oh and the old LSD that I broke I salvaged the LSD section and installed it in my C230. She works beautifully coupled with the ASP pulley. 2 tires turning is a sight to be seen. After a few hundred miles I will be putting it up for sale along with the pulley. I like to ensure quality before sale.
Here are some pics




These are the diffs. 1st Note the driveshaft flange from the stock C43 will fit on the larger housing so you will not need to change rear driveshafts. Pictured installed on the 208 housing. 2nd Note the rear cover from the 208 is the only one that will allow for this housing to mate up with the subframe of a 202. The 208 is the rusty/dirty one


The 209 accepts push in axles while the 208 uses stub axle flanges held in with circlips accessed by removing the rear cover. The funny part is that the stub axles can be swapped into the 209 and clipped in. Note: There is a difference in thickness between the ring gear. Have no clue why.


Stock Axle shafts bolt up no questions asked.
Quaife will be coming soon once i figure out if the ring gear thickness has any bearing on the Quaife application. QDF7V (208) QDF9V (209)

Here is the new home of the old LSD

Ausmbtech

So basicly what your saying is that a CLK55(209)/C32 diff along with a diff cover from a 208 CLK55 can accept the original C43 drive shaft and axle flanges and then bolt straight in. Is that right?

florent78

I ask a phantom grip resseller


it's 499 $ for the phantom grip, fitted in the differential

for me it's a good price

austinholloman

Contact info and slip %?


And I didn't realize until late last night, the only reason his failed was the 55k motor ate it alive, not the 55na motor.

money-one

You will also need to exchange the factory c43 input flange on to the diff. your making. Then it will bolt in no problems.

Last I heard there was a crossfire group buy trying to have a supplier make a quaife style center section that would drop in the original differential. C43 share the exact same diff as them and the slk32. Just something to think about and research.

austinholloman

Very nice! Going to update us on that MONSTER you have built for yourself?

money-one

From the last update there has been many conflicts with scheduling. The short story is my car was down since early September. Week before Thanksgiving the car made it to my Tuner and she lived once again. My current issue is my ignition system is getting blown out on blip throttle. I'm waiting on a new ignition system that is suppose to be released in January from Haltech. Running 16 spark plugs is uncommon especially using wasted spark. I'm also creating a fuel return system for the car. This is where I stand.

Ausmbtech

I've already got a deposit down on the wavetrack diff, I should have it about Feb 2011, once I get it I'll post photos. Was just wondering about a larger diff for long term reliabilty/lower temps on track day for when I finally get around to the N/A 55 conversion.

Saaboteur

Is the Wavetrac deal going to be an ongoing production, or is it a one time, made to order thing?

jstrat85

i bought a c36 dif to put in my turbo charged c220 but it required a lot more work. So now im selling the diff.

florent78

I've got the C36 4 gears gearbox

I hesitate keeping actual diff (2,87) or fit the 3.07 diff (later C36 and C43)

when driving sportly, gear change from the gearbox is evaluated with the rpm of the engine or with the speed

with the speed = can not change diff ratio
engine rpm = I can take a shorter diff ratio


and I will fit after the phantom grip

Ausmbtech

It should be an ongoing production as there is a bigger market for crossfire performance gear than benz. Technically it should be bolt in but we will wait and see.

austinholloman

You are a true pioneer! Good luck and I cant wait to see once its up and running track times!

Saaboteur

I opened up the EPC, the actual diff part number (the insides, not the case) is 129 350 20 23 for an SLK32. It's the same number for a C43, but then there is another number listed for the C43 too, 202 350 01 23.

If it's the same diff and drops in no problem, then it should be a good solution and kudos to the Crossfire community for getting the Wavetrac to production.

florent78

quaife offer the C32 differential

I doubt they forget to offer the C43 and C36 quaife differential if it was the same as the C32

nd4spd13

so a small sidetrack here. I'm talking to a dealer in Delaware about a trade for a C43 for my C36 (plus some dough, of course) and in the description of the car he put that one of the options was a "locking differential". Just to make sure before I question the validity of this sale, mb definetely never offered a locking diff for the 43 right? What on earth could that ever be used for on a rwd sport sedan.