msq

Hello:
I have a '99 C43 that I have had since new. The car has 82K miles but engine has 53K miles (Mercedes had to do engine replacement at 29K due to manufacturing defect). I am thinking of adding a Kleeman supercharger. I have read pretty extensively on this forum regarding this topic. A couple of questions (ideally to people who have put a Supercharger on their engine for this kind of mercedes engine).
- What kind of HP & Torque performance can I realistically expect (vs. what's advertised)?
- What kind of gas mileage reduction should I expect?
- Will it affect life of transmission? (I changed mine at 60K miles)
- How much more often should I do transmission maintenance if I put on the supercharger?
- Will if affect the life of the engine?
- The Supercharger would be put on by a Kleeeman shop here in CA but 5 mos from now car would be moved to MA permanently (there is no Kleeman shop in MA)...is this a big issue to consider?
- Do I need to do things like oil changes more often?
- What other things should I consider?

I have also seen posts about turning C43 into C55....vs. supercharging C43. WHat is involved in this and at approx what cost?

thanks in advance for your help.
Mark

silence

Lots of questions there-

for the cost of Kleeman I would be strongly suggesting the 5.5L swap. Recently I've been seeing/hearing about those motors going for 2.5-4k and if you find the right people you should be able to get it in for another 2k or so. (for what it's worth that is MUCH more than I spent on my SC set-up thus far, even with the tweaks I've made... but still enough less than a Kleeman install/sc will cost you to make the swap a better idea)


Otherwise a supercharger will work great on your car- I would expect to see the manufacturers claims so far as HP gains.

Gas mileage reduction will be minimal- I still get 25 mpg on freeway

transmission life will be hurt but with fluid changes should be reasonable

engine life with 5 or 6 psi probably isn't hugely effected at all

I change my transmission fluid and oil once a year in the spring (so once every 5-8k miles). If you are daily driving it I would feel comfortable with stretching the changes out quite a bit.

Hope that helps



-Drew

msq

Thanks Drew, this really helps. I had no clue the 5.5L swap could be done for so reasonable (compared to Kleeman SC, which I though would be 1/2 the price of an engine swap). I talked to a Kleeman dealre/installer and they have a 50% off the actual part, but even with that, when you'll all said & done (with ecu reprogramming etc.) it's still $12K or so.

silence

yeah, I think you'll be able to get the motor into the car without doing any work yourself for 6-10k (obviously less if you are willing to wait for the right deals on things and or do some work yourself) depending on miles on the motor, who you have do it etc.

Plus you can sell your 4.3 for 2500 or so out the back end

You might be able to find someone who would almost perform the swap for your stock motor- might...

msq

for the 5.5L - meaning I should look for a 5.5L AMG engine or one from a 550 model? (apologies for so many questions, I simply don't know)

silence

Look for the naturally aspirated "55" motor from a w210 E55 (or similar).

In your position I would start the search with finding an installer- they will drive the process from there and may have leads for where to get the motor from etc.

that or I would just put in an offer on one of the existing cars (or my own.. heh)

msq

ok thx, that makes sense.

silence

also, for what it's worth... I know of C55s being born on both coasts (but none around me) and owned by members here. You may find installer information posted here on this thread in the next few days?

renntech c55

I live in Wisconsin and I own a c55. Actually I drove through Rochester last year for the Hot rod tour. well have to chat

AMS Performance

+1 on 5.5L swap, makes MUCH more sense, plus its all OEM and its easy to transplant (relatively speaking). Technically the W210 E55 engine makes the most power stock of the 5.5L NA AMGs, but that could just be b/c of the design of the exhaust system. W208 CLK55 or W210 E55 engine should do fine.

silence

no way- wish I had seen you. We sat on the hood of my Tahoe and watched cars for hrs that day.

How much of the tour did you make?

I've thought about making a leg many times- although primarily with one of my other past vehicles. I'm sure we'd make it out for a couple of days if there were a group of Euros (or even just another couple cars) we knew were going.

suicidal4life

Correct me if I'm wrong here but doesn't a C43 put down about 300HP from the factory and a W210 E55 around 350? This means a 55 swap will gain you around 50hp. A Kleemann kompressor should pick up 100+ HP right? I'm not sure about torque figures so maybe the 55 beats the 43 kompressor in the torque department and also the 55 probably has a slight weight savings over the Kleemann 43 but I'd have to imagine the Kleemann kompressor is quicker then a 55 swap. Of course on the other hand if you do the 55 swap and it comes out cheaper then adding a Kleemann kompressor to your 43 you could spend the $ on additional mods for the 55 such as headers, ECU, etc and at that point perhaps the 55 is the better choice.

Money wise initially the Kleemann is more but down the road if you ever sell the car I doubt the 55 swap will add much value but you could always pull the Kleemann off and get some decent money for it (assuming you keep the stock parts)

Just thinking out loud here.

silence

yea- I"m not going to say the sc cars aren't faster... they definitely are!

AMS Performance

The HP isn't what makes the two engines so different, its the torque. C43 only has 302. The W210 E55 engine has 391 (so 89 more ft lbs of torque). Also the 55 engine's torque comes on sooner. In addition to that, its very easy to unlock a lot more power out of the E55 engine naturally aspirated, you can easily get more power out of them getting very close to SC43 numbers for much less cost.

Either way they are quick cars however I feel the NA E55 engine is more in line with the cars character, but its up to the driver to decide what he or she wants.

msq

I'll have to give you a shout if you don't mind. It would be great to understand what you went through to do the conversion and to understand what the performance (rwhp etc.) came out to be.

ECTurboGSX

The big gains are in torque. The C43 makes 302 ft lb of torque and I believe the E55 makes 391 ft lb. I believe the spread is pretty even across the rev range. And who says you can't add a blower to a 5.4 ...

msq

I talked to a shop that is an authorized Kleeman dealer/installer this weekend. He was a good guy and really practical. He mentioned a couple of key things to me:
a. if I put on a supercharger that no Mercedes Dealer will service my car (i.e. I knew no MB dealer would touch the sc, but he indicated they would not service the car at all). This is relevant to me because in my home state where my car will ultimately reside, there is not Kleeman shop.
b. while it would make my C43 a lot faster and the transmission could easily handle it etc., his opinion was that "the chassis of the C43" is not really made to handle all that power (I wasn't clear if he meant suspension etc.) and the Kleeman installed probably costs as much as the car is worth today (I wasn't using that as one of the criteria anyway)

I am not so much worried about the cost part, but I am concerned about getting the care serviced by a competent tech if I get an sc installed. He also made it sound like an MB dealer would not service the 5.5L engine swap.

silence

the tq gains are where the huge difference comes in with 4.3 vs. 5.4- however, add some boost and the tq matches the 5.4 numbers or slightly betters them...


you are absolutely right that the dealers will avoid the vehicle.- it's a scary thought at times.

the chassis has absolutely no issues with the power- think of how fast the car was designed to be driven safely?

you will likely be able to find a dealer who would work on the car if you called around- but more likely you would have to do work yourself, or find an independent tech who was interested.

msq

thx, good suggestion. I will call the dealer in MA that services my C43 and see if they would be willing and call others. I like the idea of the torque & HP gain. I was thinking of selling my C43 and getting a 2003-2005 S55, as I could use a bigger car, but people I know that have them tell me about how expensive maintenance is and something always seems needing replacement that $x thousand on those cars. My C43 is not as complicated and it has been a great car and I've mainatined it meticulously, that's what has made me think of adding the sc. Sold my Viper after having kids and have been trying to find a way to get high end performance without lots of complicated or expensive maintenance.

silence

well, not the BEST car for that- but decently reliable and cheaper than some other AMGs to fix.

you will never replicate Viper performance without spending too much, but if you can be happy with 400hp and a bit more tq you can get there a few different ways with these cars and it will handle it great!

msq

this was a good suggestion.....I just called the MB dealer in MA who has maintained since new, they said they would be glad to service the car even if I had a Kleeman put in. They also suggested getting wider rims and tires and having Z-rated tires put on the car. Now the sc seems like a viable option for me.

silence

cool- the sc shouldnt do too much to the effort for most maint. and repairs. i run 18x9 and 18x8s with 255s/225s bfg kds iis respectively and eiback pro kit suspension. very hapy with that stuff. stock brakes are up to the task for sure. i would try to spend less on the sc and install then u are talking tho- i mean i know it can be done for much less.

msq

yea, even though they said it's 50% off the part since Kleeman is not making it anymore (i.e. $7500 vs. $15000 for the part) with install, ecu reprogram it comes out to about $12K. It does seem like a lot. I have a call into the guy to see if they can do better (or do more things for the car plus the sc for that price).

silence

ya- i would sell my car for what that plus wheels/tires and springs will cost u at those rates... and thats with the stereo equipment in it.

msq

yea at those rates I would be into the car for more than its worth today.