C36 buying advice needed
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 19
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From: Utah USA
2008 BMW 335xi
C36 buying advice needed
I apologize as you probably get a lot of requests like this but I need some C36 buying advice. I'm in the market for another car and would like something interesting but don't have a lot of money. Locally there is a 1996 C36 for sale for $5800 with 130k miles. I've always wanted an AMG and have actually been to Affalterbach Germany.
FYI I've previously had a 1985 Porsche 944 (87k to 160k miles), 1994 Porsche 968 (60k-72k miles), and 2001 Audi S4 (new to 36k miles).
I did a little research and at first I saw comments like they were bulletproof and cheap to repair due to the use of off-the-shelf parts but then I found costly concerns on this forum such as the following, and one mentioned that 140k miles was about the time they start to go:
transmission
head gasket
wiring harness
crank sensor (not a big deal)
I don't have any information on the car yet but will obviously check the history. I don't want to spend a ton of money on repairs but am OK with some. Reason tells me not to buy the car but emotion tells me the opposite. So I need some evil influences to help me! Thanks.
FYI I've previously had a 1985 Porsche 944 (87k to 160k miles), 1994 Porsche 968 (60k-72k miles), and 2001 Audi S4 (new to 36k miles).
I did a little research and at first I saw comments like they were bulletproof and cheap to repair due to the use of off-the-shelf parts but then I found costly concerns on this forum such as the following, and one mentioned that 140k miles was about the time they start to go:
transmission
head gasket
wiring harness
crank sensor (not a big deal)
I don't have any information on the car yet but will obviously check the history. I don't want to spend a ton of money on repairs but am OK with some. Reason tells me not to buy the car but emotion tells me the opposite. So I need some evil influences to help me! Thanks.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: netherlands
Carlsson CM60 EX:C36AMG'96
transmission problem is only for the 5 speed late models, if it has been flushed every 60k km it's ok I wouldn't worry about it if it drives right. Head gasket pretty commen not really a big deal, wiring harness for all models with the 4speed gearbox. I would say go for it if it's in good condition you will love it 
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 19
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From: Utah USA
2008 BMW 335xi
OK, thanks. How much do things like the wiring harness and head gasket cost to replace? I've done heads on OHV motors but not OHC, so would probably have someone do it. Do you rebuild the head at that time or just replace the gasket and maybe resurface the head?
Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 228
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C36 AMG
-transmission only the 5-speed had issues which is only the '97 year C36 but like previously stated, if it was flushed and changed at the regular intervals it should be fine.
-head gasket was a defect from the factory and is only an oil leak and NOT an actual blown head gasket, not a big deal aslong as the oil is kept topped up,
And If you do plan on changing the gasket eventually they now have the updated gasket for the M104 anyways.
-Wiring harness only effected the '95's and some early '96's UPTO January 1996 build date, then after that it was updated properly again from Mercedes. But realistically by now most average mileage early C36's with the bad wiring have been changed anywas, and if not you can definitely tell just by looking at the crumbling harness in the engine bay.
-crank sensor? Not a common problem on these engines
At all.
Like w202mylove said, if it's in good condition I'd say go for it aswell! It's an amazing AMG and rare, you will love it.
Had mine for more than 3 years now and will not be selling.
Good luck!
-head gasket was a defect from the factory and is only an oil leak and NOT an actual blown head gasket, not a big deal aslong as the oil is kept topped up,
And If you do plan on changing the gasket eventually they now have the updated gasket for the M104 anyways.
-Wiring harness only effected the '95's and some early '96's UPTO January 1996 build date, then after that it was updated properly again from Mercedes. But realistically by now most average mileage early C36's with the bad wiring have been changed anywas, and if not you can definitely tell just by looking at the crumbling harness in the engine bay.
-crank sensor? Not a common problem on these engines
At all.
Like w202mylove said, if it's in good condition I'd say go for it aswell! It's an amazing AMG and rare, you will love it.
Had mine for more than 3 years now and will not be selling.
Good luck!
Last edited by BenzMaster19; May 30, 2012 at 02:16 PM.
Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 228
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C36 AMG
If its just weeping oil from the gasket and NOT mixing in the coolant then it's just a leaky head gasket (like 95% are) and you don't have to resurface the head and only change the gasket, which will be less expensive.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 19
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From: Utah USA
2008 BMW 335xi
Awesome, thanks. That's right, I saw something about the wiring harness being the early cars. I guess I must have mixed up the crank sensor issue with another car. When I went to write this I couldn't find all the posts I had originally found.
I also meant to mention that I plan to drive this car every day but I have a really short commute. Which isn't necessarily good for the engine either so I may have to find a curvy detour between home and work!
I also meant to mention that I plan to drive this car every day but I have a really short commute. Which isn't necessarily good for the engine either so I may have to find a curvy detour between home and work!
Member
Joined: May 2009
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C36 AMG
A short commute is fine aslong as its atleast longer than about 8 kilometers one way, these AMG engines LOVE to be "driven", and over time if your trips are overly short you can start to build up carbon and condensation in the engine. Also for oil only use Mobil 1 0W-40 full synthetic, it will not cause leaks and will further protect the engine and lubrication, and it's recommended by Mercedes aswell. I have used it for 3 years now and the inside of my
3.6 M104 is brand spanking new and loves it.
3.6 M104 is brand spanking new and loves it.
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Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Salt Lake City
C32, 911 SC
I actually saw that one for sale on KSL. There were two for sale last month with the same color combination and year I believe.
I was looking to pick that up as a fun car, but decided to go with 87 924S instead
I cannot offer direct feedback specific to C36, because I never owned one before. I heard things to be worried about are the stuff you mentioned (wiring harness and head gasket). The pre-97 4-speed auto is indeed bullet proof and as long as wiring harness and head gaskets have been replaced, then you have nothing to worry about.
From the regular w202 perspective though, I used to own a 97 C280 Sport and had issues with the speedometer needles sticking, but that was an easy diy project to fix. That was the only problem I had before I sold the car with 190K miles on it.
Either way, good luck with it! They are very rare indeed and I have only seen them once or twice in Salt Lake area ever.
I was looking to pick that up as a fun car, but decided to go with 87 924S instead
I cannot offer direct feedback specific to C36, because I never owned one before. I heard things to be worried about are the stuff you mentioned (wiring harness and head gasket). The pre-97 4-speed auto is indeed bullet proof and as long as wiring harness and head gaskets have been replaced, then you have nothing to worry about.
From the regular w202 perspective though, I used to own a 97 C280 Sport and had issues with the speedometer needles sticking, but that was an easy diy project to fix. That was the only problem I had before I sold the car with 190K miles on it.
Either way, good luck with it! They are very rare indeed and I have only seen them once or twice in Salt Lake area ever.
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Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 19
Likes: 1
From: Utah USA
2008 BMW 335xi
Yeah, there was another with 20k fewer miles that appeared to be meticulously maintained, but he wanted twice as much for it.
The 924S is a good car, not as fast but very engaging to drive. One of the best handling cars ever. I had a friend who raced one and regularly beat people with twice the HP; he said he never braked.
The 924S is a good car, not as fast but very engaging to drive. One of the best handling cars ever. I had a friend who raced one and regularly beat people with twice the HP; he said he never braked.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 468
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From: Salt Lake City
C32, 911 SC
I would offer around $5000. It's getting harder to find these cars in a good shape and the one you're looking at looks great.
The 924s is a lot of fun to drive. The seating position however is too close to the windshield. I ended up not driving it much. Good luck either way and keep us updated!
The 924s is a lot of fun to drive. The seating position however is too close to the windshield. I ended up not driving it much. Good luck either way and keep us updated!
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 19
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From: Utah USA
2008 BMW 335xi
Thanks. I was initially going to offer 5 but don't want to low-ball him. Unfortunately he doesn't have maintenance records; he just bought it recently and is just flipping it. Carfax shows that it was serviced at the dealer during the warranty period but that's it. There is a business card from an independent shop in it and I called them but the guy didn't seem to know the car. It was hard to communicate with him due to his strong eastern european accent. Tomorrow I am hoping he can find something.
I had Recaros bolted to the floor in my 944 so probably had a bit more clearance to the windshield, plus I'm fairly tall so could put the seat back quite a ways.
I had Recaros bolted to the floor in my 944 so probably had a bit more clearance to the windshield, plus I'm fairly tall so could put the seat back quite a ways.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 468
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From: Salt Lake City
C32, 911 SC
6k is a lot for a 16 year old car with no service history. Get a ppi done at werners maybe?
I am an average height (5'10") and still feels like I am sitting too close to the windshield, maybe I should just get used to it. But then again I would rather drive the amg anyday of the week.
I am an average height (5'10") and still feels like I am sitting too close to the windshield, maybe I should just get used to it. But then again I would rather drive the amg anyday of the week.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 316
Likes: 6
From: New York
Stg3 B5S4-C55 AMG
Do not buy a C36 or any AMG for that matter without any history or service.
I did that when I bought my first 96 C36. It looked the business, was clean and all that, but wow did that car cost me money
Leaky headgasket after I did a few good pulls, AC stopped working, aftermarket stereo had a slow parasitic drain on the battery, trans seal let go, etc...etc..
Also, buying one that's cheap will end up costing you more than a well sorted one at 7-8K, which is what a turn-key example will and should go for.
These are amazing cars. As the others have mentioned, once the headgasket, timing cover seal, TB actuator,and harness are done, the car will live into the 300K range without flinching.
The M104 internals are forged, and the crank is made to withstand 500+ nm of tq which is why the few that are turbo'd do so well.
I think 96 is the best year in terms of lower cost of ownership. No expensive brakes like a 95, no 5 speed tranny issues of the 97.
I did that when I bought my first 96 C36. It looked the business, was clean and all that, but wow did that car cost me money
Leaky headgasket after I did a few good pulls, AC stopped working, aftermarket stereo had a slow parasitic drain on the battery, trans seal let go, etc...etc..
Also, buying one that's cheap will end up costing you more than a well sorted one at 7-8K, which is what a turn-key example will and should go for.
These are amazing cars. As the others have mentioned, once the headgasket, timing cover seal, TB actuator,and harness are done, the car will live into the 300K range without flinching.
The M104 internals are forged, and the crank is made to withstand 500+ nm of tq which is why the few that are turbo'd do so well.
I think 96 is the best year in terms of lower cost of ownership. No expensive brakes like a 95, no 5 speed tranny issues of the 97.
Thanks. I was initially going to offer 5 but don't want to low-ball him. Unfortunately he doesn't have maintenance records; he just bought it recently and is just flipping it. Carfax shows that it was serviced at the dealer during the warranty period but that's it. There is a business card from an independent shop in it and I called them but the guy didn't seem to know the car. It was hard to communicate with him due to his strong eastern european accent. Tomorrow I am hoping he can find something.
I had Recaros bolted to the floor in my 944 so probably had a bit more clearance to the windshield, plus I'm fairly tall so could put the seat back quite a ways.
I had Recaros bolted to the floor in my 944 so probably had a bit more clearance to the windshield, plus I'm fairly tall so could put the seat back quite a ways.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 19
Likes: 1
From: Utah USA
2008 BMW 335xi
Thanks very much. Still trying to see if I can get service history, but I'm not optimistic. FWIW KBB and Edmunds both put the value at $5k in good condition with no major issues.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 19
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From: Utah USA
2008 BMW 335xi
Just drove the car finally. Interior good, tired seats and some wear on the switches of course, rock chips and scratches on the paint and wheels. Doesn't appear to have leaks, but I was in work attire and couldn't crawl underneath, nor did I have a flashlight. Trans fluid doesn't smell burnt. High beams don't work.
I wasn't sure where to look for the wiring harness but the build date is 6/96 so I guess I don't have to worry about it.
It runs well, although didn't pull as strong as I had hoped. Man does it have a stiff throttle!
He doesn't want to take it to a shop but we'll see. I got the name of the previous owner and will try to contact them tonight. It doesn't seem worth more than $5k even if there are no major issues but he doesn't want to go lower than $5800; apparently he has $6000 into it (just bought it a month ago).
I wasn't sure where to look for the wiring harness but the build date is 6/96 so I guess I don't have to worry about it.
It runs well, although didn't pull as strong as I had hoped. Man does it have a stiff throttle!
He doesn't want to take it to a shop but we'll see. I got the name of the previous owner and will try to contact them tonight. It doesn't seem worth more than $5k even if there are no major issues but he doesn't want to go lower than $5800; apparently he has $6000 into it (just bought it a month ago).
Last edited by hemismith; May 31, 2012 at 05:42 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 468
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From: Salt Lake City
C32, 911 SC
C36/43 doesn't have the greatest take-off, highway pull is where they shine. This is especially true for the 4-speed auto.
Is there a reason why he wouldn't let you take the car to the shop to get a ppi done?
Is there a reason why he wouldn't let you take the car to the shop to get a ppi done?
Just drove the car finally. Interior good, tired seats and some wear on the switches of course, rock chips and scratches on the paint and wheels. Doesn't appear to have leaks, but I was in work attire and couldn't crawl underneath, nor did I have a flashlight. Trans fluid doesn't smell burnt. High beams don't work.
I wasn't sure where to look for the wiring harness but the build date is 6/96 so I guess I don't have to worry about it.
It runs well, although didn't pull as strong as I had hoped. Man does it have a stiff throttle!
He doesn't want to take it to a shop but we'll see. I got the name of the previous owner and will try to contact them tonight. It doesn't seem worth more than $5k even if there are no major issues but he doesn't want to go lower than $5800; apparently he has $6000 into it (just bought it a month ago).
I wasn't sure where to look for the wiring harness but the build date is 6/96 so I guess I don't have to worry about it.
It runs well, although didn't pull as strong as I had hoped. Man does it have a stiff throttle!
He doesn't want to take it to a shop but we'll see. I got the name of the previous owner and will try to contact them tonight. It doesn't seem worth more than $5k even if there are no major issues but he doesn't want to go lower than $5800; apparently he has $6000 into it (just bought it a month ago).
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 316
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From: New York
Stg3 B5S4-C55 AMG
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 19
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From: Utah USA
2008 BMW 335xi
I had read other posts about the C36's strength being at highway speeds. I am really surprised that they could break the tires loose. The owner thought I wasn't being aggressive enough. I need to drive it again; I didn't have a lot of time.
I don't think he would just give me the car to take in, and he wasn't anxious to go himself -- it's about 30 mins to the nearest shop. But he seemed more willing when I said I would pay for it.
I talked to the original owner's son. He claimed it was always serviced at the dealer but the dealer only keeps records for 5 years, and it hasn't been driven much since then. He claims his dad was **** about changing the fluids and doing everything necessary without regard to cost. Carfax has a few things but not much. It had some things done under warranty, such as injectors, O2 sensor, HVAC control unit. The last listed services, 5 years ago, say "engine checked".
I don't think he would just give me the car to take in, and he wasn't anxious to go himself -- it's about 30 mins to the nearest shop. But he seemed more willing when I said I would pay for it.
I talked to the original owner's son. He claimed it was always serviced at the dealer but the dealer only keeps records for 5 years, and it hasn't been driven much since then. He claims his dad was **** about changing the fluids and doing everything necessary without regard to cost. Carfax has a few things but not much. It had some things done under warranty, such as injectors, O2 sensor, HVAC control unit. The last listed services, 5 years ago, say "engine checked".
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 468
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From: Salt Lake City
C32, 911 SC
All AMGs should be able to break their tires loose. it would be a sin if they don't
If you can find which dealer it has been serviced at, probably Ken Garff since Lindon is new and assuming it's a Utah car, you should be able to call them and ask for service history to my knowledge.
If you can find which dealer it has been serviced at, probably Ken Garff since Lindon is new and assuming it's a Utah car, you should be able to call them and ask for service history to my knowledge.
