achristina

I drove a 98 C43 for the first time today - I own a 97 C36. A few things I noticed (things that I wish I could have had insight on a year ago when I bought my 36):

On surface streets - the C43 felt better. From stoplights, low RPM driving, the extra torque of the V8 seemed to make a difference.
Advantage: C43

On the freeway - the two cars felt almost identical. Dissappointingly so actually - I thought the C43 would feel stronger than my C36. Surprising to me since the C43 has 23 or so more hp and 100 lbs or so less weight.
Advantage: draw

The transmission on the C43 felt quite a bit quicker.
Advantage: C43

The exhaust noise on the C43 was...what exhaust noise? I couldn't barely hear it! My C36 sounds MUCH, MUCH racier, raspier, louder, better. I loved the V8 rumble - but I had to concentrate to hear it. The C43 only sounded better at idle...
Advantage: C36

So how much does an exhaust you can hear cost for a C43?

scorchie

I agree with almost everything you said... especially how both the C43 and C36 are disappointing on the freeway. Try a CLK55 on the freeway for some oomph. Of course, a supercharged V8 will have even more.

Where I disagree is the exhaust. Stand behind a C43 when it starts. It's quite a bit louder than a C36. And if you stand at the side, you can barely hear the exhaust of a C36 over all the engine noise (those 24 valves and DOHC create a lot of valvetrain noise). And again, if you want a louder exhaust, the CLK55 is fitted with a slightly larger (2.75" instead of 2.5") exhaust that should bolt on to the C43.

-s-

moedigga

This has nothing to do with the performance aspect, as I have never driven a c36 or even heard exaust from one but I must admit I think i like the styling lines of the trim better on c36. Just my thoughts...-MOE

achristina

...Where I disagree is the exhaust. Stand behind a C43 when it starts. It's quite a bit louder than a C36. And if you stand at the side, you can barely hear the exhaust of a C36 over all the engine noise (those 24 valves and DOHC create a lot of valvetrain noise). And again, if you want a louder exhaust, the CLK55 is fitted with a slightly larger (2.75" instead of 2.5") exhaust that should bolt on to the C43.

-s-
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Ya, like I said, at idle the C43 sounded nice. But on the freeway, or surface streets, from the drivers seat, she sounds pretty docile.

Like your idea about a CLK55 exhaust...how can this be a simple bolt on with the chassis of the two cars being so different?

scorchie

The chassis of the C43 and the CLK55 are identical. Parts bolted to the chassis of the two cars differ...




-s-

FrankW

from the driver seat the C43's V8 will overtake the sound coming from the exhaust that's for sure. But if you are outside of the car, what you will hear is the mixture of the two.

I drove my friend's 208 CLK55 twice, when I drove it honestly, I could care less about the exhaust note because the rumble of the V8 is just amazing.

When I drive my C32 however at low speed the rumble of the exhaust is there all the time, but once the rpm picks up, the engine + the kompressor noise takes over. That's from inside of the car. From the outside, I had my bro drove it once with me following in my sis's CLK320, all you hear is a very loud roar mixtured of the exhaust and engine noise by the time you differenciate the noise the car is gone.

MBdragracer

From a technical purest standpoint, the C36 is a far superior vehicle (engine-wise) when compared to the C43. Much of this has to do with the fact thatm from a mechanical engineering standpoint, the straight-six is a consistently and incredibly efficient configuration (so are V-12s). This is quite evident when comparing 1/4 miles times and MPHs with each model - as well as engine longevity. It's a shame that MB did away with the straight configuration and adopted the "V" (for a variety of reasons including cost and hood height). I'd never swap the 36 for the 43 powerplant. Although, I would consider the less efficient (from an engineering standpoint) 55...just for the added hp and torque.

scorchie

That's making it too simplistic... because then everything in the engine would have to be identical except for the configuration (I6 v. V8), and it's not.

Then, maybe you don't consider the longer crankshaft issues of the large I6, nor that the pistons (which are larger on the C36 v. the C43) carry more inertia and will also reciprocate millions of times more in 100,000 miles. This greater movement causes more cylinder wall wear. Having just looked at the cylinder wall wear on a 125,000 mile C36 vs. a 100,000 mile 4.3L engine (non-AMG, but it's mostly identical right?), made me realize that there are far more considerations than just cylinder layout.

Finally, it depends on one's goals in engine design, which you didn't really state when pointing out the superiority... I think the variable length intake runners and dual-SOHC design is quite ingenious (as a mechanical engineer myself), where the M104 employs the traditional route of DOHC, which isn't very innovative. But then, is the goal innovation? Ingenuity? Blandness? Reliability? Emissions? etc.

-s-

MBdragracer

I respectfully disagree with some of your technical statements but, point taken scorch. Your a pretty young mechanical engineer. My apologies to everyone. I certainly didn't mean to start a pissing match. I guess I should have just said that after a good number of years studying different facets of engine design (not as a professional in the field of mechanical engineering but as a pure fanatic and racing enthusiast) I prefer the 36 to the 43. Biased opinion...I own a 36 - but, of course, only after considering the purchase of a 43.

scorchie

No pissing match intended! I thought we were discussing the merits one way or another. I agree on the fact that the C36 has a more "tuned" engine. No dispute there...

-s-

steve s

yeah...too bad mb went to v6...only people using an i6 in the states, at least, is bmw and volvo... oh well...

scorchie

I think you're being overly pessimistic. Chevrolet/GMC have a newer all-aluminum inline 6, and Jeep has the venerable one in their Grand Cherokee. The Lexus GS300 still is available with the popular-with-tuners Toyota inline six.

There may be more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

-s-

steve s

knew i'd miss a few...hehe... but that's just a good indication most have gone to a v6....

Three Point 6

C36 impression - With my 2.87 rear gears('96 models) I am able to walk away from alot of V-8 cars on the freeway! I think the best performance of the car is anything above 60mph in these cars. E36 M3s are a joke & so are E46 330's. I love smoking new Mustang GT's and 350Z's on the freeway. I get to do this in a 6-cyl Benz and my payoff at the bank on the car is less than a new fully loaded Corolla! haha ......

2000 C43 has touchshift/zenons option & the excellent seats. That is why I would want a 43, but I am happy & content w/ my 36 for now.

BMW tuners are getting easy 400hp out of the I6 in the M3 currently. I drive V-6 cars after being used to my silky I6 & feel immediate dissapointment due to all the vibration from the V-config.

What did 43's start life as from MB before being shipped over to AMG??? Did MB purpose build the 4.3 as an assembly line car or was it transplanted into a 2.3 or 2.8 car???

I thought that the C36 intake was some type of variable volume setup taken off the E class platform???(E320??) I know for a fact it is not the C280 intake! So Did the 124 series have an M104 installed????

scorchie

You must not drive cars with a 60-degree V6, as these are as balanced as an inline-6 or V8. It's unfortunate that many manufacturers (MB included) choose to use a 90-degree V6 so as to increase parts sharing possibilities with the V8s in their lineups. GM's second attempt at a V6 in the early 80s (after their "two cylinders chopped off a V8") resulted in their high output 2.8 litre V6, which was the basis of some engines still used today. It was very smooth and relatively powerful for the time.

The 124 chassis cars had the M104 from 1990 in the coupe, and 1993 in the sedan (these are the model years, the start of manufacture would be the calendar year earlier).

My "Introduction to Service C36 AMG" booklet states that the engine is derived from the 2.8 litre engine, not the 3.2 litre... and that the intake manifold has "increased cross section" but it does not make any other statements about the changes. Other changes listed, are precise, such as "modified intake cam adjuster, increased exhaust duration." It also lists that the "exhaust camshaf is unchanged" but that the duration was changed "with new dowel pin locations on camshaft sprocket".

Very interesting reading.

-s-

AMG CE 3.6

Something I have collected on the net, probably from magazines, with some additional information on the subject. Two story´s almost the same but as I said, don´t know the authors.
L.
.........................................

Mercedes-Benz C36

"The designation C36 stands not only for a powerful engine, but for an entire car that has been specially developed in every traction-related discipline and given new suspension, new brakes and new aerodynamics. It is the near perfect interplay of all its component parts that makes it a sports car truly safe to drive!"

The first car to be jointly developed between Mercedes-Benz and AMG. It unites all the qualities of a Mercedes with the experience of one of the most successful racing teams, AMG.

The C36 is based on the C280 Sport with its 6 cylinder, 24 valve engine. At AMG, this power plant is completely rebuilt, from the cylinder head cover to the sump. In the same way as an engine is prepared for racing; not on a production line, but in two days of meticulous hand-crafting by highly qualified experts. The cubic capacity grows by an impressive 800cc to 3.6 litres. This is done by increasing the cylinder bore and lengthening the piston stroke.

The almost identical dimensions for the bore and stroke - 91 x 92.4mm - are an ideal basis for the production of high torque over a very wide engine speed range. Even at 1500rpm the torque is 300Nm, rising to over 380Nm between 2800rpm and 5300rpm. This is very rare for a normally aspirated engine!

To save weight slipper-type pistons made of aluminium are fitted; an extremely lightweight yet particularly strong design. Additional oil-spray nozzles ensure that the pistons are kept cool. Then the crankshaft is precision-balanced, and after that the connecting rods and pistons
are individually selected so as to
determine the best combination
for each engine block!

The same braking system as the
Mercedes-Benz eight-cylinder
models. Internal ventilated discs
and the four-piston fixed caliper
action have been specially
adapted.
The C36 has been given a braking
system that more than matches its
sports-car performance.

-------------------------------------------

AMG Story on C36: Aufrecht and Melcher in Grossaspach (AMG) were two Mercedes-Benz engineers who formed their own company in 1967 to increase the performance orientation of Mercedes cars. A stock C280 platform was modified with a sturdier final drive, bigger brakes, faster-ratio steering, heavy-duty stabilizer bars, AMG-supplied wheels, and larger tires. Then, minus bumpers and skirts, it was shipped to AMG's shop in the small village called Affalterback. There, AMG bored out, beefed up, forged, stroked, shaped, tightened and tuned the luxury sedan, turning up the horsepower from 194 to 268 and slashing the 0-60 mph time from 8.3 seconds to 6.4.
Engine: In-line 6-cylinder; 3.6-liter; 268-horsepower, 280 ft-lbs torque. Hand assembled by AMG with many uprated parts, including: Flat top Aluminum Pistons. High Performance Camshaft. Balanced and lightened Crankshaft. Enlarged intake manifold (from MB E320 model), Sodium-cooled valves, Hand-ground cylinder head with enlarged exhaust ports. Acceleration: 0-60 mph: 6.4-seconds; 0 to quarter mile in 14.7 seconds. Top speed - 155 mph (electronically limited).
Braking: Power vented discs; ABS; Front - 12.75 inch diameter vented rotors (from MB SL600 V12 coupe) with AMG-modified 4 piston calipers,; Rear; 11.5 inch diameter vented rotors (from MB E500) with 2 piston calipers. 60-0 mph in 107 feet.
Transmission: electronic 4-speed automatic (from MB E500 sedan) Electronic Cruise Control.

steve s

yes, scorch and i have gone thru this many times

scorchie

Hahha

-s-