*sigh* post tune up problems...
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Joined: Jun 2013
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
*sigh* post tune up problems...
So, aside from just spending 3+ weekends polishing the hell out of my new C43 (pics coming soon, looks a-mazing), I also did the valve cover gaskets, plugs/wires, air filters, fuel filter, crank position sensor, oil cooler/filter housing gaskets.
So I'm all excited to get him back on the road, I take him for a drive, and he's stumbling/stuttering a but when getting on the gas. He's sluggish below ~4500 rpm, then picks up a bit, but not like before I changed everything out.
I had the battery disconnected for a while when repairing some battery acid rust in the spare tire area, and the car had to re-learn all the sunroof/window positions, etc.
Is it likely that it's the plugs/wires? It doesn't feel like it's missing, but then again I don't know if it's easy to tell if these engines are missing or not. Could it be the crank position sensor?
The plugs I used are the FR8DPP33+ that AutohausAZ had listed as the OEM plug. The wires were genuine Bosch wires, all correctly labeled for position, etc.
Does the fuel pump usually make a hissing if you're standing behind the car?
I'm worried it's the plugs or something else I did, so any thoughts/input welcome, where do I start? Anyone else experienced this after a tune up?
Thanks
Edit: just found this post about the CPS (http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w163...-sensor-2.html), is it really possible that the CPS can cause so many problems? Could it be causing the hesitation in the engine?
So I'm all excited to get him back on the road, I take him for a drive, and he's stumbling/stuttering a but when getting on the gas. He's sluggish below ~4500 rpm, then picks up a bit, but not like before I changed everything out.
I had the battery disconnected for a while when repairing some battery acid rust in the spare tire area, and the car had to re-learn all the sunroof/window positions, etc.
Is it likely that it's the plugs/wires? It doesn't feel like it's missing, but then again I don't know if it's easy to tell if these engines are missing or not. Could it be the crank position sensor?
The plugs I used are the FR8DPP33+ that AutohausAZ had listed as the OEM plug. The wires were genuine Bosch wires, all correctly labeled for position, etc.
Does the fuel pump usually make a hissing if you're standing behind the car?
I'm worried it's the plugs or something else I did, so any thoughts/input welcome, where do I start? Anyone else experienced this after a tune up?
Thanks
Edit: just found this post about the CPS (http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w163...-sensor-2.html), is it really possible that the CPS can cause so many problems? Could it be causing the hesitation in the engine?
Last edited by jgro1976; Aug 4, 2013 at 01:55 AM.
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12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG + Ultima Can-Am sold)
Sorry to hear you have post tuning problems. If the CPS was dead the vehicle wouldn't start when hot and be OK cold. Have you checked for air leaks in the intake? Your MAF could be faulty. Try getting the codes checked for faults.
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Joined: Jun 2013
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
Thanks, talk about a drag, was so excited too. That's kind of how I figured the CPS worked, either the car would run or it wouldn't. Only places there could be leaks is in the filter box, right? MAF was fine before, but we did take it off to do some of the breather hoses and a bracket that broke. He's going in on Wednesday to have the suspension swapped out and control arm bushings replaced, so I'll have them check codes and see if they can figure it out then.
Do you guys recommend a good code reader? I have one of those cheap bluetooth ones for an app on my phone, but it apparently doesn't read as good as it should/could. My indie found 4 pages of old, stored faults when I had them look at the car the very first time, and cleared them. Car was fine until I touched it, haha.
Do you guys recommend a good code reader? I have one of those cheap bluetooth ones for an app on my phone, but it apparently doesn't read as good as it should/could. My indie found 4 pages of old, stored faults when I had them look at the car the very first time, and cleared them. Car was fine until I touched it, haha.
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So, aside from just spending 3+ weekends polishing the hell out of my new C43 (pics coming soon, looks a-mazing), I also did the valve cover gaskets, plugs/wires, air filters, fuel filter, crank position sensor, oil cooler/filter housing gaskets.
So I'm all excited to get him back on the road, I take him for a drive, and he's stumbling/stuttering a but when getting on the gas. He's sluggish below ~4500 rpm, then picks up a bit, but not like before I changed everything out.
I had the battery disconnected for a while when repairing some battery acid rust in the spare tire area, and the car had to re-learn all the sunroof/window positions, etc.
Is it likely that it's the plugs/wires? It doesn't feel like it's missing, but then again I don't know if it's easy to tell if these engines are missing or not. Could it be the crank position sensor?
The plugs I used are the FR8DPP33+ that AutohausAZ had listed as the OEM plug. The wires were genuine Bosch wires, all correctly labeled for position, etc.
Does the fuel pump usually make a hissing if you're standing behind the car?
I'm worried it's the plugs or something else I did, so any thoughts/input welcome, where do I start? Anyone else experienced this after a tune up?
Thanks
Edit: just found this post about the CPS (http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w163...-sensor-2.html), is it really possible that the CPS can cause so many problems? Could it be causing the hesitation in the engine?
So I'm all excited to get him back on the road, I take him for a drive, and he's stumbling/stuttering a but when getting on the gas. He's sluggish below ~4500 rpm, then picks up a bit, but not like before I changed everything out.
I had the battery disconnected for a while when repairing some battery acid rust in the spare tire area, and the car had to re-learn all the sunroof/window positions, etc.
Is it likely that it's the plugs/wires? It doesn't feel like it's missing, but then again I don't know if it's easy to tell if these engines are missing or not. Could it be the crank position sensor?
The plugs I used are the FR8DPP33+ that AutohausAZ had listed as the OEM plug. The wires were genuine Bosch wires, all correctly labeled for position, etc.
Does the fuel pump usually make a hissing if you're standing behind the car?
I'm worried it's the plugs or something else I did, so any thoughts/input welcome, where do I start? Anyone else experienced this after a tune up?
Thanks
Edit: just found this post about the CPS (http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w163...-sensor-2.html), is it really possible that the CPS can cause so many problems? Could it be causing the hesitation in the engine?
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1995 C36 AMG, 1998 C43 AMG
Do you guys recommend a good code reader? I have one of those cheap bluetooth ones for an app on my phone, but it apparently doesn't read as good as it should/could. My indie found 4 pages of old, stored faults when I had them look at the car the very first time, and cleared them. Car was fine until I touched it, haha.
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
kowalski, nope, it's a "he", as is my "MINI". Gunther, if you're wondering =)
nd4spd, ok, thanks. not seeing a CEL, but may try to pull codes just in case.
one other thought/question, I had wd40 in the plug tubes to try and ease the new plugs back in (rusted), could the wd40 have borked my O2 sensors?? I've been reading that bad sensors can cause this as well, and there was a ton of smoke when I first started him up after changing everything out.
nd4spd, ok, thanks. not seeing a CEL, but may try to pull codes just in case.
one other thought/question, I had wd40 in the plug tubes to try and ease the new plugs back in (rusted), could the wd40 have borked my O2 sensors?? I've been reading that bad sensors can cause this as well, and there was a ton of smoke when I first started him up after changing everything out.
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From: MN, USA
C43 5.4, ML320CDI, Fords
I'd suspect you have an air leak after the work you did. there is a large breather hose from the left side valve cover that goes to the intake elbow below the MAF, could be unplugged or cracked. These hoses often crack at this age. There are also a smaller hose on each valve cover that go right past the throttle motor on the intake, could be unhooked or cracked again. Also a hard line from purge valve that goes to the same spot. otherwise, I'd check to make sure nothing is wrong with the airbox/MAF connection since you had that off. I'd also make sure you put the fuel filter hoses back onto the filter in the correct locations.
It's an internal combustion engine, you'll know if it's missing. It would also be turning on your check engine light and the engine management would completely shut down that cylinder until the next key cycle.
It's an internal combustion engine, you'll know if it's missing. It would also be turning on your check engine light and the engine management would completely shut down that cylinder until the next key cycle.
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
Thanks for the input benzslo. I replaced all of the breather hoses when I did everything else, I ensure they were securely fastened to their respective places as well. When revving the engine standing by/in the engine compartment, there's no evidence of a vacuum/air leak anywhere, audibly or otherwise. Similar with the MAF connection, ensured it was securely put back together, but I'll double check things later today. When I replaced the fuel filter, I did it one hose at a time to ensure I didn't mix the hoses up.
No CE light, it's not missing, just poor performance. I'm starting to lean towards the MAF or oxygen sensors, just not sure which to start with first, or do both, replace one piece at a time and see what fixes it I guess.
No CE light, it's not missing, just poor performance. I'm starting to lean towards the MAF or oxygen sensors, just not sure which to start with first, or do both, replace one piece at a time and see what fixes it I guess.
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C43 5.4, ML320CDI, Fords
the maf will cause power/driveability problems 100x more often than an o2 sensor. But, I'm not sold that it is it for sure, if the problem started right after work was done, I'd look at what was done. I don't like the parts replacing approach to diagnosis, but it's your money.
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1999 C43, 2008 P30 E63, 2014 SQ5, 2024 Model Y Performance
Thanks for the input benzslo. I replaced all of the breather hoses when I did everything else, I ensure they were securely fastened to their respective places as well. When revving the engine standing by/in the engine compartment, there's no evidence of a vacuum/air leak anywhere, audibly or otherwise. Similar with the MAF connection, ensured it was securely put back together, but I'll double check things later today. When I replaced the fuel filter, I did it one hose at a time to ensure I didn't mix the hoses up.
No CE light, it's not missing, just poor performance. I'm starting to lean towards the MAF or oxygen sensors, just not sure which to start with first, or do both, replace one piece at a time and see what fixes it I guess.
No CE light, it's not missing, just poor performance. I'm starting to lean towards the MAF or oxygen sensors, just not sure which to start with first, or do both, replace one piece at a time and see what fixes it I guess.
You would know if a cylinder was shut down from missing, you would throw a CEL and your AMG would sound like a Subaru.
Both MAF and o2 sensor issues would throw a CEL as well
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
I don't like throwing money at the car either, the MAF did come out to take care of the breather hoses, but I was careful with it, made sure I didn't drop it or anything, plugged up the intake port below, etc. Again, I'll double check there's no gaps/leaks this afternoon.
Main work done was the fuel filter/plugs/wires/VC gaskets (complete with sensor safe gasket material). I don't have the old plugs/wires anymore, tossed'em already. I do have the old fuel filter I could try swapping out I guess, but the replacement was MANN and I'm 100% sure I got it back on the way the old one was set up.
It starts fine, runs smooth, no CEL, drives fine if you're not stoping the pedal, but as soon as I stomp the pedal, it's slow/sluggish below 4500rpm, and then it improves a bit from there.
Main work done was the fuel filter/plugs/wires/VC gaskets (complete with sensor safe gasket material). I don't have the old plugs/wires anymore, tossed'em already. I do have the old fuel filter I could try swapping out I guess, but the replacement was MANN and I'm 100% sure I got it back on the way the old one was set up.
It starts fine, runs smooth, no CEL, drives fine if you're not stoping the pedal, but as soon as I stomp the pedal, it's slow/sluggish below 4500rpm, and then it improves a bit from there.
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C43 5.4, ML320CDI, Fords
Maybe have your guys look at it when they do the rear main. You could easily rule out the filter by watching fuel pressure when driving.. I doubt that is your problem though.
I have seen maf problems before without a check engine light, you can go in with a tester and check your fuel mixture adaptations and see if they are drifting from where they should be. However usually when you have these problems, the car is ok under lower rpm and load, but falls on it's face on the higher end.
It really just needs a real diagnosis. But I would check everything you did and also for any vacuum leaks and also un-metered air leaks. I've seen many air leaks before that you can't hear, you can have an air leak that doesn't make any noticeable noise.
I have seen maf problems before without a check engine light, you can go in with a tester and check your fuel mixture adaptations and see if they are drifting from where they should be. However usually when you have these problems, the car is ok under lower rpm and load, but falls on it's face on the higher end.
It really just needs a real diagnosis. But I would check everything you did and also for any vacuum leaks and also un-metered air leaks. I've seen many air leaks before that you can't hear, you can have an air leak that doesn't make any noticeable noise.
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99 C43 AMG
Thanks again, great info benzslo. I'm going to re-check the maf connections and breather hoses again this afternoon. I don't think it's the fuel filter either. The car is ok at low load, it's when your get on it that it falls on its face. One way or another I'll get this figured out.
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12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG + Ultima Can-Am sold)
I see you changed the fuel filter. Did you fill it up with some fuel before assembling into the fuel line? Are you sure you didn't install it the wrong way round? Just my 2cents suggestions...
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99 C43 AMG
DRB, I didn't fill it with fuel, no, the engine took a bit longer to fire up after changing it but it fired right up.
You can kinda only install it one way due to the 3 normal sized lines and the smaller breather/return/whatever line. I did one line at a time to ensure that I got them all on the right ways.
You can kinda only install it one way due to the 3 normal sized lines and the smaller breather/return/whatever line. I did one line at a time to ensure that I got them all on the right ways.
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
I know I installed the fuel filter in the right direction, but can someone please confirm, on the wheel side of the filter, where there's two hoses of the same dia, which hose goes to which nipple?
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
mb, I'm 99.9% sure, yes. I updated with an original Bosch set, alphabetized, etc. Plug wires are plug wires, I think the only significance is the length of the wire, and there are no short/tight wires. I can go back and re-check the upper/lower connections, but I did one cylinder at a time, and am pretty sure that's accurate. That and the engine isn't misfiring/missing, starts right up, runs smooth.
DRB/Johnny, yeah, I'll see what the shop says, I'm super curious too since it was running fine before I swapped stuff out.
DRB/Johnny, yeah, I'll see what the shop says, I'm super curious too since it was running fine before I swapped stuff out.
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From: MN, USA
C43 5.4, ML320CDI, Fords
I didn't take pictures. If you use a MB filter, it would be hard to screw up, on the fitting it say right on the filter, "tank" and "pump". I'd recommend an oem filter since its also the pressure regulator.
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
I'm still 99.999% sure I didn't screw up the fuel filter install. I did one hose at a time, taking it off the old, and onto the new as I went. I'm going to look at checking the plug gaps/connections, and the MAF this weekend hopefully
Last edited by jgro1976; Aug 13, 2013 at 07:18 PM.
