KC36AMG

I just replaced my head gasket, but prior to that, the car sounds like a diesel or a typical mercedes sound. The dealer said that it is the Camshaft Adjuster Assembly, that part is $2,000 and it has to come from Germany. I contacted AMG in Germany and they said that it is normal and don't worry about it because it won't do any harm. The dealer said the same thing.
Any thoughts?

steve s

i grew up with a 1977 300D diesel...a beauty (ok..maybe brown isn't the best color, but it has its moments) and a tank of a car...the shell and paint was so darn tough..it outlasted the engine ... i can tell u it's an old mercedes diesel miles away.. i don't think the c36 is quite near that... i do know the engine has never idled smoothly from day 1 and there is always a very quiet and soft ticking noise behind the dash that the dealer said something about the valves or head clearing themselves (can't remember)...

CynCarvin32

Had a 1995 C36 for 7 years and that car had 3 (short block, long block and a create motor) motors, 2 camshaft adjusters, various oil pumps etc... It is a sound that is coming from a minor case of piston slap and loud cam adjusters. The cam adjusters did help but there is a design issue with the bottom end that causes the C36 to have a distinct clatter at idle.

I hated the sound but I still miss that car. It is a great car with a great motor so have no fear!

pointman

100% normal, don't worry.

J Irwan

I have a 1997 C36 for about 4 years now.

As long as I can remember, I never have the ticking noise or diesel ticking (what everybody refer for the noise)..

And I have been using Mobile One 0W40 oil ever since I own the car.
The Idle always smooth.


What makes me curoius is you're not the first person to notice about the noise.
There has been quite a few owners with the similar noise on their C36.

So I can't really say whether it is harmless or harmfull for the engine.

But I would probably dyno your car to see if it pull the hp as it should be.
And if it does, then nothing to worry.


Regardz,

steve s

really?...hmm, i guess i never really pay attention when driving it (200 miles in the last year...it's hard to get in touch with a car )...but ever since we got it in july of 96...u start the engine and when it drops down to nominal idle rpm, it kinda goes rumpity rumpity...and the rpm fluctuates ever so slightly... and the ticking noise, not sure if kc is talking outside under the hood or inside... u'll have to find a quiet spot...but sometimes, u can here this really soft tap noise inside the cabin, like right behind the vents. and it comes at very evenly spaced intervals...kinda like tapping ur nails against a table top very very softly...

narci

I hear that too!

KC36AMG

You really notice the noise at idle in the garage, but the noise isn't as loud when you increase the RPM's. Another note, my previous 190E 2.3-16V made a very similar noise.

Benzini

"And I have been using Mobile One"

Yours did not come with the on-board telephone?

Seriously, the racket comes simply from a lubrication problem. It takes a while for the oil pump to establish normal pressure through the whole cam chain system after the lubricant has dripped in the sump overnight, and this is where the clatter comes from. Nothing to worry about, and no need to replace the tensioner unless you have been using Wesson instead of Mobil 1 or Valvoline Synthetic, equally as good.
Also if you are in a state where they put corn booze in the gas (like in Kalifornia, thank you very much for the money under the table, Archer-Midland, Gray Davis and the fanatics at the AQMD), the alcool has a tendency to dilute and precipitate the additives in synthetic oils, and it takes a few seconds for everything to mix and put itself back in proper molecular order.
At least this is what the chief scientist for Elf racing oils told me, eh.

CynCarvin32

THe sound he is talking about occurs when the car is warm. It is worst right after a run through the gears or an extended freeway drive (when the motor is very warm). Given that the sound is a form of piston slap and a case of a slightly loose rod bolt, when the metal expands due to heat, the sound gets worse.

As for oil, using NON synthetic makes the motor more quiet for it is more viscous and this quiets down the sound.

Believe me that it is not an oil pump problem. MB made a custome C36 oil pump with a drive wheel from a E300D (spun at a higher rpm to make more pressure) and this did not quiet down the sound at all.

My car had everything replaced to try and solve this issue. It never went away. Finally after 2 motors from AMG, tehcs from the factory researched the issue and said it was normal, that all C36's do ot and tha there is no reason for fear.

I still loved that car! Who cares if it sounds a little funny!

Benzini

"THe sound he is talking about occurs when the car is warm."

How do you figure this out please? KC36AMG said: "You really notice the noise at idle in the garage, but the noise isn't as loud when you increase the RPM's"

Generally, when one talks about car noise in the garage, it would be when starting the car cold, no? Also it has nothing to do with the oil pump but at the speed in which oil is fed under pressure after overnight dripping and a cold start. Sure enough, it takes 2-3 seconds for the "dry" engine to run smoothly since unlike in my previous MB cars, the C36 (and my C43) start instantly, firing at the very first stroke. Not much time for the pump to...pump.
Regardless, an inline-six with fairly radical valve timing AND chain-driven cams will produce some racket and unless he really has a serious knocking noise that could mean piston slap or even a wrist pin problem (I have a hard time believing that a loose rod bolt would even stay on the rod for more than a few hundred miles) there is little to worry about. Try a Supra turbo, it sounds just as (very slightly) rackety as my C36. As far as oil "noise", pardon me but the viscosity of the oil is what's important, not if it is synthetic or mineral. I run racing engines on both mineral and synthetic and there is absolutely no discernable audible difference.
Now the engine in my C36 has 130K miles on it and sounds completely normal but with the accepted radical valve-timing racket that one has to accept from such an engine. Again, listen to the clatter of a F/Atlantic 4-banger 1600cc Toyota idling, and your C36 will sound like melting ice cream compared to that. Changing engines sound pretty radical to fix such a puny problem on what is after all, a disguised hot rod.
Regards,

Benzini

KC36AMG

Some say to try LUCAS Oil Stabilizer with Quaker State Synthetic because they had the same issue and the noise was drastically reduced or disappered. They also wnet back to complete Mobil 1 Synthetic (what I use) and the noise came back. I just had the dealer complete an oil change, but I might try it before the car goes into storage in September.

CynCarvin32

Ok... not sure what to tell you here but go read my 8 page long net star print out on my C36. The car spent 6 years trying to get the tapping noise solved but after AMG and MB did everything under the sun to fix it the truth came out. They realized it was just a design flaw inherent in the car. Not to be aggressive or rude here but I highly doubt there is any owner here who has gone through what I did to fix this sound. My car has been studied by many engineers and this is what we learned. And could I have been insane making people work for so long to clear an issue? Sure but that is my nature. A motor should not clatter like a diesel when at idle in my opinion. I had an 1990 500SL that did the same thing and it got a new lump as well! Ever listen to a 1992 500E? They have piston slap as well (same as the 1990 500SL).

Go talk to AMG about the motor. The C36 was originally designed as a C34 (M103 with a twin cam head and the 7k redline -- 3.4L motor). Late in design they switched to the C36 motor and there were some changes made to the car at that point and this is where the issue resides. The 3.4L motor had pistons which were made by kolbenschmidt and these pistons are among the highest quality on the market today. At the same time that the designs were changed, AMG was officially acquired my MB and MB began taking over some of the control in vehicle design. Some say that the pistons in the C36 are cheaper quality than that of the C34 for they are made by Mahle. Granted the motor was now called the M104 with a different fuel management system and a revised top end, but some feel that the change in piston manufacturers could be the cause. AMG seemingly rushed the C36 into production in a race with such tuners as Carlsson and Brabus (both making C34's and C36's before the AMG C36 came to market). Having not done enough testing on the C36, some things were maybe over looked. Almost all C36’s are very susceptible to power loss on days with high ambient temps and this too is a known issue for many C36’s which was not “fixable” either.

So with all this going on, the car had an inherent design characteristic that made the motor "tick" at idle when the OIL WAS WARM. It was quiet at start up but this particular noise was FAR worse when the oil was warm and when the motor fell to idle at a stoplight. If the car idled next to a tall curb or a wall with warm oil it sounded completely terrible. Feel free to ask any board members who knew me when I had the C36... the motor was extremely loud. I test drove 4 other C36's with similar miles to compare motors and they all make the same sound. In fact the man who purchased my C36 had a silver C36 as well and BOTH his cars make this ticking sound.

Go listen to a RENNtech built 3.6L M104 motor and you will quickly see a vast difference. That motor purrs like a happy kitty cat with NO cam noise, no bottom end tap or ticking sound, and no loud lifters. Hmmm... That motor uses kolbenschmidt pistons and there is no issue with excess tolerances. Have we the source of the issue?

My C36 would idle perfectly quiet in two specific situations. 1) when the motor was cold just after start up 2) when it was extremely warm (when the expanded metal filled in the excess tolerances). Take the car out and run it up a canyon road at 100% for an hour and the motor purred like the RENNtech motor. When the motor was cold, the thick oil suppressed the ticking until the viscosity decreased.

There is also a known problem where some M104 motors have oiling issues and failed lifters and this can cause a terrible clatter upon start up. But this issue goes away in about 10 seconds after the car’s oil pump catches up with the top end. My car had this issue but luckily new lifters and a new oil pump solved it.

steve s

hmm...interesting. just had my oil sending unit replaced too... interesting u say performance is lost on hot days... the fan on the c36 runs so loud it's embarrassing.. my father ran the c36 at sears point near 100f/38c while i ran my wagon... he trapped at 15s @ 98 while i did 14.8 @ 94...

KC36AMG

WOW! You went through the whole process and then some. I thought I had it bad. By the sounds of it, there is no quick fix, but I am going to try the LUCAS oil stabilizer. You guys talk about the loss of power in the heat. I had the same problem with my 190E - 2.3 16V. When it was hot, the car had starting problems and rough idle, especially when I used the AC. The dealer couldn't find anything. I had to make sure to minimize the use of my AC because I did not want to be at the side of the road.

Benzini

"They realized it was just a design flaw inherent in the car."

I can't believe that you have gone to so much trouble to fix a problem that is hardly a reliability issue. I would have dumped the car quickly if I had such a problem. I took my 1996 C36 into psychanalyze yesterday, observing its behavior and sounds in our KA 90-degree weather. I really did not notice anything out of the ordinary, and no loss in performance. The only non-stock feature on my vehicle is a K&N air filter cartridge instead of the more restrictive stock unit. The car uses Valvoline synthetic, no additive, and purrs. It is very comfortable, quick, so far utterly reliable with every switch doing what it is supposed to do, and apparently no head gasket or fron gasket leakage. Its service history reports no engine or tranny trouble. Except for the clutter in the first 2-3 seconds when cold, the engine runs smoothly and idles just fine, almost inaudibly. The fans and the A/C compressor make a lot more racket.
Am I the lucky one? I purchased the car for a ridiculously low price that would not have got me a used Focus at 125K miles feeling and looking like no one ever sat in it, and did so far 6K miles with zero trouble, and I am the kind of person USING the car, not babying it. When I got the car I had the engine flushed with the Bilstein machine, the tranny serviced, new brakes and lower control arms, and that is IT.
I need to find other local C36's to hear what they sound like, because I am a bit at a loss here, sounds completely normal to me...
Regards,

Benzini

CynCarvin32

Im a crazy perfectionist in every way and a motor that is loud at idle drive me crazy. I know virtually all C36's make this sound and I have spoken to AMG as well as other tuners (who work directly with AMG) and the truth is that there is NO solution to the ticking sound in the W202 C36 cars. So I learned to live with it. The current 3 valve motors all sound like cement mixers if you ask me. The new direct injection gas motors should go back to being refined and smooth like the M119 V8's of yesterday.
When I had the C36 I also had a normal C280 sport and that motor was completely smooth and always had a great sound at idle. Not sure else I can say.

AMG cars are not built to be "***** footed" so by all means use your car and drive it hard! They run better at redline than they do at idle!

Regards

tmmesq

I have a 96 C36 with 63K on the clock. I have the same diesel sound at idle. I have even had people state "I didn't know that this was a diesel?" However, I have had the car in to the dealer with no comments on the sound. I have put 12000 on the car in the last year with no problems at all. I run Mobil 1.

steve s

actually..

now that we had a chance to drive around the bay today... after parking in the parking space, left the engine on... boy, i hear the noise. it really sounds like a diesel engine...wow...

Benzini

So does it REALLY bother you now that you have been made aware of it?
I just drove a brand new (gas-powered) Hyundai "Sonata" and the racket is unsupportable at anything above 80. I have little problem with my C36 engine sounding a bit radical at idle as long as it pulls as nicely as it does when I step on it.
Regards,

Benzini

steve s

gimme a shotgun ...where u at benzini? j/k ...luv u all


i don't hear it inside the cabin tho...i guess that's y i never noticed. and i mean, i drove 200 miles on it last year... but yeah, after a good run on the freeway, doesn't even have to be hard running or high speed...u definitely hear it. at least it doesn't seem to affect the car when running thru the revs...still sounds pretty good inside and outside the car when u do that...

steve s

that noise really reminded me of that old 77 300d we had...good memories

CynCarvin32

Well at least you wont think im full of bs any more . It may be loud but it still is one of my favorite MB's of the last 10 years. That and a W124 500E! Great cars!

steve s

Benzini

"gimme a shotgun ...where u at benzini? "

Any reason why I should be dead meat?