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I just wanted to let the community know that I have started a m113k top swap build to my 5.4 swapped C43.
I have gather enough info to get started and talking the major modifications.
The parts for the swap build or as follows :
M113K supercharger (580)
VRP conversion kit
VRP 550 CC injectors
AEM FIC8 piggy back will be ran with the ME2.0 (I have evidence that it is possible to run with no issues my 2 different people, the trick is manipulating the voltage to the MAF)
BOSCH 044 Dual pump (Although I have been told one is enough)
ZZP coolant pump
ebay heat exchanger
Additonal MB coolant expansion tank
M113K fuel filter/regulator @ 6 bar.
Waiting for fuel rail - will be modified for loop and the fuel inlet will be modified to be centered
Fuel line - TBD, might run 4 or 6 AN steel braided for high quality plastic through the interior
ebay heat exchanger
1 step colder plugs (NGK)
Pending purchases :
BOOST GAUGE
AFR GAUGE
OIL PRESSURE GAUGE (NOT SURE WHERE I WILL TAP TOO)
I may be missing some things that I'm not thinking of right now,..
If you would like to follow the build, my Instagram is RETRO_DEL_FUEGO, I will be documenting step by step with picture/videos and general description of what I did so that future guys who plan to do this have a reference. This will take months and I will be taking my time not cutting any corners.
I also want to give a shot @Kaleb Bailey and @alexis lehavre who have been answering my consistent questions when ever I reach out.
I am also part of a chat with some pretty knowledgeable guys who are helping me when they can.
Right now, I am looking for the ECU wiring diagrams that will help me identify the wiring of the following:
I believe 500 hp is where I want to be around, it can def go higher, but from research the longevity will be shortened, I actually have a K motor i have my eye on, so the whole project may change if I sell this super charger.. getting a lot of interest. But no one has committed yet..
Sounds like a fun project. FWIW, the regulators on the fuel filter/regulator on my W211 E55K are stamped 5.1 Bar. If you zoom in on the photo, you can read the stamped specs.
It will be interesting to see how this works out for you. Best to you.
any k swap will do, the one i had my eye on is out of an e55, but if the supercharger doesnt sell by this weekend i will continue forward, are you JON? back from PR? LOL
From: Land of mountains, cheese, chocolate and watches
12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG + Ultima Can-Am sold)
Great project, specially if you can get all the electronics to talk together. This conversion has been done by a very small number of owners in the past, but sometimes they play their cards very close when discussing how to get things to work correctly
The NA 5.4 has a higher compression ratio than the K 5.4, which makes boost a risky proposition on the top swap path, or so I'm told. Staying below 500hp might be a smart play.
From: Land of mountains, cheese, chocolate and watches
12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG + Ultima Can-Am sold)
Originally Posted by Sulaco
The NA 5.4 has a higher compression ratio than the K 5.4, which makes boost a risky proposition on the top swap path, or so I'm told. Staying below 500hp might be a smart play.
Ah yes, I didn't read well the OP's start of discussion thread, by using the N/A M113 and slapping on a supercharger, I would have worries regarding the compression ratio as mentioned by Sulaco
I seem to recall reading that the M113K had stronger? Rods & Crankshaft also. Perhaps bigger oil pump? Those are the bottom end issues to worry over. There seem to be 4 or 5 different girdle/oil pan configurations for M113s depending on chassis used, etc...
I am in total agreement with you guys however i have yet to find a top swap build blown up, i do see many Ks with rod coming out the block, i want to be clear i am not a all saying that the m113 is just as strong as the K, but I know of 2 builds that have been running the top swap for many years with no issues, my consensus that with a good tune and no going overboard with he hp numbers it will be fine.
At least you are seeking input from the Borg...
Photo of W210 M113 E55 spark plug reach:
Photo of W211 M113K E55 spark plug reach:
I really want to see you succeed at this project. Brings back good memories to me. If I may, I would recommend lower boost for the higher compression N/A engine. Will still give great power yet leave headroom for reliability. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
Please keep us posted and provide updates often so we can cheer you on.
Here is progress report 1, I will try to upload a report every Sunday! I am currently studying the wiring diagrams some more,... I know what to do, but understanding what to do and why you are doing are 2 different things!!!!
First thing to be done is cutting off the SAI bracket and grinding it down smooth so that the SC can sit on top of the motor flush, Take your time doing this, cutting into the timing cover would be bad! Note: I will not be running any EGR valves front or rear, VRP sells the front block plates, Benz force sells the 2 rear ones. I will eventually code out the EGR error codes. Wiring up the FIC, connections are spliced into the ECU harness. The solder connection points should be made inside the control module box as far away from the connections that plug into the module as possible, for multi splice connections, offset the soldering points for a much cleaner look! NOTE: You should download star finder,.... actually you must download starfinder if you don't already have it. YOU NEED YOUR WIRING DIAGRAM FOR YOUR VEHICLE AND THE WIRING DIAGRAM FROM A M113K CAR. MAF sensors will be the main driver of the FIC. 1 MAF for each side (2 air intakes) I went to the junkyard and cut a total of 3 connections out, the 3rd connection was only for extension wiring. NOTE : 1 WIRE WAS COLOR CODED DIFFERENT (all connections were taking from ME2.8 cars, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY THE WIRE I AM TALKING ABOUT WAS RED AND YELLOW ON THE OG HARNESS AND BROWN AND YELLOW ON THE 2.8. Since I will be putting a beautiful supercharger on the car, I wanted to painted the valves covers which were in horrible shape! A thorough cleaning is a must, there are many different methods to doing this, but the points is to degrease, clean, sand, then use self etching primer, let it dry for 3 days, the paint with a high temp paint of your choice, I used wrinkle black to try and hide as much imperfections as possible., I did get it a bit greasy installing it back, very little of the covers will be seen when everything is installed. TESA TAPE! a must, can be found on amazon! your protective tape from the factory is probably as crispy as a ritz cracker, take that crap out and rewrap. Injector and coli harness re-taped. The supa cha!
1998 C43 w/ 55 swap Wavetrac LSD and 6-Speed manual
I haven't done the M113K - just the 5.4NA - but what I learned is that you will rapidly expose other flaws w/ the extra power.
As soon as my 5.4 was swapped it became apparent how the open diff was a problem. The ESP kicked on much much much more frequently then it did with the 4.3. Solution - Wavetrac diff installed. This solved the ESP problem.
BUT...with the 5.4 and Wavetrac the next problem was the transmission. Without the ESP limiting the engine RPMs the 5.4 could rev faster then the transmission could shift. I'd often hit the rev limiter in lower gears when trying to enjoy the power. There are two solutions for this - the 722.6 can be upgraded w/ valve body, solenoids, and TCU changes to speed up the shifting. It's expensive and would be some trial/error to figure out the right combo. The 2nd option is a 6 speed manual swap which is what I did. Slow shifting problem solved.
BUT....now able to harness the full power of the 5.4 it's become obvious how the car is a highway cruiser and not equipped to handle the power in anything but a straight line. I haven't done anything yet - but may go the route of stiffer shocks and Euro road height.
On the positive - the factory brakes are outstanding. You won't need to upgrade those. (Although many people do - completely unnecessary IMO. AMG did not skimp in the brake department and I doubt anyone would ever need more braking power on the street. On a track all you'd need is proper race pads.)
I've been at the same crossroads in mine for a while. I did the 5.4 swap and on top of how much it radically improved the car, it exposed how much of a problem that open diff is.
I've got a bandaid on it now by running Michelin PS4S tires but they aren't enough unless I get super lucky.
One area where I might chip in (this is for x463) is that your auto trans might have needed the sonnax kit. Sounds like it was flaring between shifts. I know this is a moot point because you already swapped it. But my 722.6 in my C43 shifts lightning fast even when compared to my 211 E55 with a TCU tune. No flares between shifts at WOT and just goes and goes. I still consider the 6 speed crossfire swap someday but I don't want to make it a worse daily (or make it so my wife can't even drive it).
I think I definitely will go with the LSD at some point still. I've already gone to Bilstein B8's and it stiffened up a good bit, but I don't race. It's still fun to toss in the turns and the instant torque on exit is never a dull moment.
I haven't done the M113K - just the 5.4NA - but what I learned is that you will rapidly expose other flaws w/ the extra power.
As soon as my 5.4 was swapped it became apparent how the open diff was a problem. The ESP kicked on much much much more frequently then it did with the 4.3. Solution - Wavetrac diff installed. This solved the ESP problem.
BUT...with the 5.4 and Wavetrac the next problem was the transmission. Without the ESP limiting the engine RPMs the 5.4 could rev faster then the transmission could shift. I'd often hit the rev limiter in lower gears when trying to enjoy the power. There are two solutions for this - the 722.6 can be upgraded w/ valve body, solenoids, and TCU changes to speed up the shifting. It's expensive and would be some trial/error to figure out the right combo. The 2nd option is a 6 speed manual swap which is what I did. Slow shifting problem solved.
BUT....now able to harness the full power of the 5.4 it's become obvious how the car is a highway cruiser and not equipped to handle the power in anything but a straight line. I haven't done anything yet - but may go the route of stiffer shocks and Euro road height.
On the positive - the factory brakes are outstanding. You won't need to upgrade those. (Although many people do - completely unnecessary IMO. AMG did not skimp in the brake department and I doubt anyone would ever need more braking power on the street. On a track all you'd need is proper race pads.)
1998 C43 w/ 55 swap Wavetrac LSD and 6-Speed manual
Originally Posted by S6TEN
you have of the underside of your 6 speed swap? Im curious to how you mounted the transmount
I'll try to get pictures next week. It was a SLK x-member w/ the holes slightly modified and lowered with spacers approx 3/4". I ran initially w/ the stock mount but changed to the Real Steel mount. I'm running 211 black series motor mounts.
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