If you're asking who really cares about the engine assembly, then the answer is quite a lot of people. Doesn't it make sense that the chance of a better finished product is accomplished if one person is controlling the process at every step? You can apply this logic to almost anything made that has value.....from nice leather shoes, to custom fitted golf clubs or medical precision instruments. You expect a better product with Mercedes than with less technological and cheaper cars, in part because you pay for it. Same with AMG. You pay more for it. If all the "special" qualities of your favorite things in life are slowly stripped away or diluted, you might get disenchanted.
AMG's BS marketing is not the CLA45. That 4banger is a technological marvel. You don't seem to grasp the magic that engine is capable of, and whats still on tap for it. The 4banger bests the 6 cylinder. The gearing on start from a standstill is poorly executed, but it isn't really turbo lag. Regardless, there is no fooling people with this engine....it delivers. No, the BS marketing is selling a hopped up C450 as a real AMG. As nice as it is, this iteration falls short of the AMG benchmark.

 

The C is so much better than the CLA, IMHO it is not even close.
I would take a C43 any day over the CLA.


I also drove them at the Academy and there are several things that would not let me buy the CLA. The interior is not even close (lots of hard plastic) and I spend all my time inside and I would have a hard time living in it. The C interior in any configuration is a gem and I love being in it.
I really dislike the sound of the 4 banger and the car is front drive based and pushes badly. I don't care if it is a little faster then the C43 so if I was not stepping up to the C63S I would rather have the C43.

 

+1

 

No denying that the AMG fourbanger is a marvel of engineering, however it just sounds bad. It is what it is, a Turbo 4 cylinder.

Your point about hand assembled products is null. I personally enjoy custom made "Nice leather shoes", however they're hand made, not just hand assembled.

Engine parts are factory line manufactured (unlike V12 Ferrari engines) at Mercedes and they are just assembled by a tech at AMG, and no they are not superior to a machine assembled by several technicians.

Engines are tested after assembly and it's almost impossible to miss a part in assembling modern engines, and no; one man one engine concept is irrelevant in this day and age.

Had the "one man, one engine" meant anything or made a difference in quality, Mercedes would've sold the cars with 10 yr/100,000 miles warranty.

If the current 4.0 V8 turbo slated for G550 is tooled with the same exact parts and tune as the C63 S or GT S, then it will output the same exact numbers and is warranted with the same warranty.

Looks to me that the C43 is sporting AMG parts from "Actual" AMGs...

 

I dont get what the "engineering marvel" is in the 2.0 turbo anyways. Strap a big enough turbo on any engine and it will make power. Mitsubishi did it with their Evo FQ400.

strap a big enough turbo on a honda d16 and it will make 700hp.

 

I was close to buying a CLA 45 last March, then decided to wait because the A45 had its mid-cycle facelift. I planned to wait until Fall 2016 to get a MY2017 CLA because it was also getting the facelift. Now the C43 has entered the fold and I am most likely going to get that instead.

Now, the MY17 CLA will have some nice upgrades on it. Exterior changes such as LED headlights, front and rear fascia changes consistent with new AMG design, some subtle interior changes as well. Output increased to 381hp, torque is up, revised gear ratios in the 7sp DCT, dynamic select added, etc. Overall, a much needed "refresh" to keep up with the competition. It will produce one hell of a ride. The biggest complaint I've read about and experienced during my test drives was the DCT and the new transmission changes appear to have helped along with some changes to the suspension (which was another complaint).

That being said, the C43 coupe also looks like a beast on paper. Twin turbo V6 with 367 hp that is modified (modified ECU, increased boost pressure), the new 9G transmission with some added sport features, AMG 4matic similar to the CLA45 but different torque distribution, AMG sports suspension, AMG dynamic select, AMG exterior parts and interior as well, and a host of other performance upgrades.

I think the CLA is a great car and tech marvel, and the new refresh will help it out as well, but the real CLA to look forward to is in 2019 and beyond, where Tobias Moer already said to expect something spectacular in regards to an engine because the current gen 4L has reached its maximum capabilities. And, lets be real here, the interior needs a complete overhaul. It is very outdated and cheap looking compared to the current gen interiors of any class. On the other hand, the CLA45 has the AMG hand built engine and has more AMG specific parts and tunes.

In comparison, the C43 also has some AMG specific parts and tunes but not all, and does not have the hand built engine. So can it really be considered a true AMG in the sense of the word? No. Does that make it any less of a car in the AMG family? No. I personally think its a great addition to the AMG family, albeit with a less personal touch so to speak. I agree with some of the previous posts in that now that the C43 (and SLC43, E43, GLE43, etc) are all coming, maybe AMG needs to rethink the upper end of the AMG line, but frankly I don't think it really matters. Real enthusiasts will know that a C63, E63, S63 etc has a handbuilt engine, and that the entry level AMG's such as the 43's does not have the handbuilt engine but does have an AMG tune and parts. I mean, is there really a difference between saying one engine was built by one person (CLA45, C63, etc) vs the engine being built/modified by a group of AMG engineers? In addition, both the AMG handbuilt engines like the M178 and the new TTV6 in the C43 are all apart of the BlueDIRECT engine family anyways, just assembled differently.

I wonder how people's opinions or views would change if they introduced the C43 with a hand-built engine but everything else stayed the same. Would it be more acceptable because of the one man-one engine moniker? I dunno. I think its going to be a great car and I personally am going to get this instead of a MY17 CLA.

IMO, they should not have even made the CLA, and instead combined the CLA45 and the C43 into one and called that whatever they wanted with the TTV6. Then you could have had a TTV6 in the 43, a TTV8 in the 63, etc. That would have probably been better!

Anyways, this thread has been interesting to read. Some good viewpoints and exchanges.

 

The W204 C-class is a far superior product in terms of its interior than the CLA/A-Class/B-Class offerings. You get what you pay for.


The W205 C-class is another BIG step forward.


I feel the CLA/A/B Class is very entry level (taking the place of the C-Class) and whilst it has made the brand more accessible it has also diluted its cachet somewhat. Hence why a segment are turning to Porsche, Maserati, Aston Martin and perhaps even Jaguar etc.


I myself have entertained the idea of moving on but I do find Benz's C-Class and up products to be of very good quality. I am very wary of the reliability of the more niche brands compared to Benz!

 

Wrong ! please research the FQ400 it is not a Mitsubishi product - specifically the engine...and is/was restricted for UK consumption only !

It is also a maintenance bug bear and except for total flat out driving, it's an absolute shocker ie terrible as a street car, completely different story for AMG's mass produced M133

Although I 'get' your other point above and quite true these days 400hp from a production IL4 turbo is very possible, not too many people have or are doing it yet

 

Let's add one more stat from the C&D reviews, 5-60 rolling start times.

CLA45 = 5.7 seconds
C450 = 5.4 seconds

Winner = C450.

What can we glean from this disparity? The CLA45 has some serious turbo lag if the difference between a launch with high rev, pre-built boost and normal acceleration from 5-60 is 1.5 seconds.

By contrast, the C450, with no launch control has only a 0.9 second difference between 0-60 and 5-60. This demonstrates that the C450 has less turbo lag.

The 30-50 acceleration times show similar results.

CLA45 = 3.7
C450 = 3.0

Remember also that the C450 achieves these superior results with a slower "non-AMG" transmission.

No question, the engine in the CLA45 is impressive, but for driving on the street, the C450 is more versatile.

In addition, for handling and braking numbers, remember the C450 is handicapped with heavy, stiff and lower grip run-flat tires. I suspect that simply replacing the stock tires with a good set of MPSS will knock at least .1 off the 1/4 mile time, increase the skid pad results by at least .02g, and decrease the braking distances. I'll find out in about 8,000 miles when the stock tires are done.

 

It was for UK only but you could still buy it from the mitsu showroom? But yes, I did hear it was pretty bad in street driving.

The reason no one else makes a high HP 4 cylinder engine is because they have found better ways of going about it, not that they cant. Look at BMW using a 6 cylinder for the M2 and Audi using a 5 cylinder for the TT-RS


The turbo lag sucks on that car and the "AMG transmission" isnt that impressive (probably the worst performance dual clutch on the market. Although AMG's transmission have never really been a strong point).

Also the C450/C43 has the real AMG awd system, the CLA45 its a front wheel drive car until the front wheel slips. (oh and it becomes front wheel drive after a couple of hard auto x laps because it overheats...experienced this at AMG academy)

 

With all due respect, the "C43 AMG" is basically a "C400 with AMG Parts-Bin Special" - nothing more.

IMO, I don't really care how "good" it is. What matters is that it should have been designated a C450 Sport.

Calling it an AMG is a dick move.

 

You seem to be stating fact when in fact it is opinion. My points are not null. You may disagree with my opinion but your opinion does not negate mine.
Irrelevent in this day and age? What does that mean? That technology is so advanced that everything is better made now than it was before? It seems like your appreciation for AMG's is superficial and lacks the tradition and soul that the moniker was borne out of. That's OK, but there's just as much passion on the other side of your argument that belittling it just makes you look like a troll. Additionally, the parts list quoted from another poster are incorrect for the C450. I don't know about the 43.
My point is all these cars are nice and they all have shortcomings and advantages that appeal to different drivers. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Just curious....why hand made shoes, when there are equally good, or better, machine made leather shoes to be had?

 

Nat, you used to have some great posts. What happened? It suddenly seems like you lost your edge. Not long ago you seemed to grasp the uniqueness of AMG. It sounds like you have zero clue as to how the M133 is made. It's not just a big turbo, but the casting and internals to handle the boost. Is it really lost on you or are you just exaggerating to make a point? I don't remember you being this ignorant sounding!

 

Please point me to the literature that says the C450 has the exact same steering rack and suspension as the C63. I've read otherwise and been told otherwise by mechanics at the racing academy.

 

You obviously missed the point.

Let me try again at a 3rd grader level.

You Cannot compare Car engine assembly (putting lego pieces together) to handmade shoes. If one person assembles an engine (like putting together lego pieces) does not mean that it is better than the same engine being assembled by a group of people.

Hand made shoes are measured and molded to your feet. A Mercedes car has static (no change) engine design, and the software (magic computer language) is not tailored towards the buyer.

AMG cars are mass produced high performance versions of run-of-the-mill everyday Mercedes cars.

Having a person assembling AMG engines is just a clever marketing scheme which will eventually fade away due to higher volume of sales. Granted, they may keep it around for the V12 lineup (top tier AMG such as S65 & Pagani) and perhaps V8 Aston Martin allocation.

To answer your question on why handmade shoes? I need them as doctors have prescribed them for me, and I have grown to enjoy shoes that fit like condoms.

The shoes are tailor made for me. Produced for one person. Completely exclusive to my feet.

 

Taken from the press release from MB-AMG:

-AMG RIDE CONTROL sport suspension with adaptive variable damping in three stages; mode can be selected via button, adopted from Mercedes-AMG C63

-Front axle with newly developed steering knuckles and load-bearing joints on the spring link. Elastokinematic adjustments to the links have been adopted from the Mercedes-AMG C63

 

http://www.mercedes-amg.com/c63.php?...ations_section

http://www.mercedes-amg.com/c450.php...ations_section


Front Axel- C63- Control Arm. C450- Multi-Link
Rear Axel- C63- Multi-Link Independent suspension. C450- Multi-Link.

 

Well what I posted is direct from the Mercedes-AMG website press release for the C43. The C43 does have the suspension and steering mechanism from the C63, per the official press release and also verified by another member on here.

 

Your grade level remark is juvenile. You are now stooping to personal insults or attacks. Whatever.
AMG's are NOT performance upgrades of run of the mill benzes. They are separately made, specifically by AMG. The AMG wannabes are indeed just what you said....the C450 is a prime example. The AMG C63 and GT are examples of what the AMG division has aspired to. It started when the first C63 had a completely different front end from the standard C class. And yes, there are real AMG's that are highly modified versions of the regular car, but the new AMG is building their own cars within Mercedes.
Your lego analogy is weak. One person building the lego building has a better chance of consistency and uniformity than 20 different people touching it here and there. I really don't see how that is difficult to see. At AMG, you have the most skilled and qualified builders single-handedly guiding the process from start to finish. You are assuming that all techs are equal and equally competent. In humans, there is almost always a better person for the job, including when it comes to mechanization. All I'm saying is that if the one man, one engine system isn't BETTTER than a normal assembly line, it at least gives the process its BEST CHANCE of success. More direct responsibility, more accountability too. The more people involved, the more chances for error, the greater chance something falls through the cracks. The same with prefabed house frames vs. custom builders. Which lego builder didn't push these two pieces completely together or arch this curved section the same degree as the other side? In an ideal world, the automation process would be flawless, and everything would be perfect. Doesn't exist my friend.

Back to your shoe analogy. You admit that you have a better chance of success with a hand made item. You make my point. I never said the engine was tailored to the buyer, only that it can be a better product, more consistently crafted. It is not a DIRECT analogy to shoes, but an idealogical one. It's a custom made engine, different from all other engines. Nuff said. Grade level not withstanding.

What's not to love about this?

 

Please watch all or just a little bit of this. You may prefer one engine over another, but the hand made stuff is not crap. I don't know who can't appreciate this:

 

This. Anyone that says a machine can put something together as good as a man is either ignorant, or eristic. The engines and parts are not "static", every piece is machined within given tolerances. As small as those tolerances may be, a man/woman will be able to recognize those minute differences and adjust accordingly (there are assembly tolerances as well), where the machine will not. "Fit and finish". It is also that these variances within the tolerances are better accommodated by the hands of one man, familiar with that engine and it's otherwise indistinguishable nuances. With multiple hands in the mix, you may as well have the "sloppy" machines do it.


I'm wondering why we don't have robots performing surgery. I mean, we're all the same inside, right?

 

We do, it's called Robotic surgery and they are mostly used in very complex procedures with more precision than a human is simply incapable of.

If you watch the supposed "one man, one engine" videos above you'll see that the most important parts of the engine assembly are performed by robots. From applying the proper torque to bolts, to gluing the cylinder heads all the way to monitoring the assembly are all done by robots.

Testing is done by robots. Quality assurance of the work of the technicians is also done by robots. Robots make sure the Techs didn't miss a part. They also make sure all is sound and in proper place.

Hell, what are the technicians good for? Oh yes! Their signature plaques.

 

Thanks for proving my point, see my reply above...

 

Yes ofcourse it has to have the internals to handle the boost. But that again is nothing special. My point is you can also put forged internals on a Honda d16 and run 700hp (this exists).

M133 isnt a terrible engine, but its nothing special either. I dont like it because the lag is terrible.

Also, the CLA45 is pretty much front wheel drive until the rear wheel slips which to me doesnt sound very "AMG" /bespoke performance machine at all.

Theres more to a performance car than the engine.

Yeah AMG engines are hand assembled not hand made. Ferrari and Bentley engines are hand made.

AMG uses people to assemble probably because its relatively low volume so its cheaper than installing a new line for it. Plus it seems like its good marketing

 

So I guess mods should change the title for this sub-forum to add C43. Am I right? It's a W205 "Mercedes-AMG"