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I don't recall anyone posing this idea...suppose AMG decided to scrap the 1M1E concept and build their V8/12's on an automated line like M276. Would everyone think less of them and treat them the same as the 43's? The V12's are finished...what happens when the V8's are replaced with hybrid V6's or Project One tech trickles down and provide marginal performance differences, but achieve 30+ MPG? Still AMG's?
I don't get the nostalgia here. It's neither the point of the topic nor are some of your assumptions correct. AMG's history was to tune cars, large and small and they used whatever was in their toolbox at the time. If they would have had small engines that can produce enough power they would not have bothered with a V8 either. That must be American muscle car thinking. Given that AMG is a cash cow and they are a separate business unit, they have more influence over MB than the other way around. Their role in engine and platform development proves that. My thinking is that if Tobias Moers believes that a C43 isn't appropriate for an AMG badge, it wouldn't be there...
Most here claiming that 43 models aren’t “real” AMGs either forget AMG models of the past or just don’t know about them. Look at the W126 for example
Sounds a lot like what AMG did with our cars doesn’t it? Having a hand built in engine has been heavily marketed by Mercedes for decades, but that does not define whether a Mercedes is an AMG.
Maybach engines are hand built, and those are definitely not AMG cars.
Last edited by HTXgearhead; Oct 29, 2018 at 11:22 AM.
This is my take after a recent day at the AMG Driving Academy where we actually got to drive cars with each variant of AMG’s engines, 43 to GT-R.
Think of AMG like a professional sport team. You have starters, the best of the bests (GTs and 63s ) and reserves (all others). Starters are always going to be better (faster, stronger, bigger, etc…) than the reserves. The reserves, although not being as great as the starters, still provide important purposes to the team and deserve a spot on the team because they’re still in the top 5% of their game.
Also, from reading the replies, most (I know not all) of the posters that says 43s shouldn’t be considered an “AMG”, has probably actually never even driven one.
I don't really get your point. Are you determining speed and performance simply by HP? Nevermind the many other factors like aerodynamics, weight, grip (a big plus on the 43), gear ratio, transmission type, differential, etc... all the aspects of what AMG is about
I think a bigger issue is this person displays total ignorance of knowing the Germans use a different method of calculating HP numbers. The Germans use DIN while Am/Jap companies use SAE. To even get close to an equivalent comparison you have to take at least 30% off the SAE number.
Case and point, my brother has the Doj charger with 707 hp and ironically the last time I rode with him a C63 decided to race us. It was pretty much dead even and if anything the C63 pulled slightly ahead. That's a 707 hp Am car vs a 469 hp MB, according to MBUSA. Also, as owners on the board have demonstrated, with only a tune and downpipes the C43 is faster than a C63. Even in most magazine tests the stated numbers for German cars vs actual tends to be very conservative while generally the opposite can be said for Am/Jap cars. Not to mention the huge difference in refinement between Doj and MB, along with Toyota's being about as exciting as watching paint dry.
In addition, I could care less what badge MB put on my car. I got it because it offered the best performance/value option I was looking for, just beating out the S4. I could have bought a much more expensive car, but it didn't make much sense to spent a lot more to get a little bit more. The C43 hits the sweet spot on the performance/value curve regardless of what they call it.
I think a bigger issue is this person displays total ignorance of knowing the Germans use a different method of calculating HP numbers. The Germans use DIN while Am/Jap companies use SAE. To even get close to an equivalent comparison you have to take at least 30% off the SAE number.
Case and point, my brother has the Doj charger with 707 hp and ironically the last time I rode with him a C63 decided to race us. It was pretty much dead even and if anything the C63 pulled slightly ahead. That's a 707 hp Am car vs a 469 hp MB, according to MBUSA. Also, as owners on the board have demonstrated, with only a tune and downpipes the C43 is faster than a C63. Even in most magazine tests the stated numbers for German cars vs actual tends to be very conservative while generally the opposite can be said for Am/Jap cars. Not to mention the huge difference in refinement between Doj and MB, along with Toyota's being about as exciting as watching paint dry.
In addition, I could care less what badge MB put on my car. I got it because it offered the best performance/value option I was looking for, just beating out the S4. I could have bought a much more expensive car, but it didn't make much sense to spent a lot more to get a little bit more. The C43 hits the sweet spot on the performance/value curve regardless of what they call it.
Jeez, take in that the C63 weighs the same as a Doge Demon...
edit: scratch that. There is about a 250lb difference... Not much at all though. Also didn't notice you said charger instead of demon.. Just delete this comment lol
Last edited by jonathan358; Oct 29, 2018 at 11:00 PM.
In 2005 C55 also had 360hp. In 2009 CLK500 had 380hp and it wasn't called AMG.
In 2018 Camry has 300hp, and AMG is only 25% more powerful. Than a Camry.
Of course, grandpa's MKZ with its 400hp is way out of reach for this AMG.
That's the kind of crowd AMG is running with these days.
So your point is Cars today are faster than cars 10 years ago? Shocking!
A new M3 is just as fast as a F430 was 10 years ago also. Does that really diminish the sentimental/prestige/value of the F430?
So your point is Cars today are faster than cars 10 years ago? Shocking!
A new M3 is just as fast as a F430 was 10 years ago also. Does that really diminish the sentimental/prestige/value of the F430?
I really fail to see how this makes any sense.
F430 was not mediocre when it was new. I'm not comparing a 10 y.o. C43 to a Camry. I'm comparing a new C43 to a new Camry. There's a difference.
My point is, while the other car have improved leaps and bounds AMG put out a stale product (C43AMG). None of the car magazines/reviewers I read were impressed by it, all unanimously said it's great, capable all-arounder and is good for a DD duties, but is not particularly exciting or excelling in any other way, performance included. Kind of like S5 and 430i. It's a great Mercedes but it's just not a great AMG.
F430 was not mediocre when it was new. I'm not comparing a 10 y.o. C43 to a Camry. I'm comparing a new C43 to a new Camry. There's a difference.
My point is, while the other car have improved leaps and bounds AMG put out a stale product (C43AMG). None of the car magazines/reviewers I read were impressed by it, all unanimously said it's great, capable all-arounder and is good for a DD duties, but is not particularly exciting or excelling in any other way, performance included. Kind of like S5 and 430i. It's a great Mercedes but it's just not a great AMG.
ok but this has less to do with branding and more to do with engine design. Engine design is better now than it was before. Now it is standard for entry trim cars to do 0-60 in 5.5 seconds and have 250-300hp. Territory which was considered sports car 10 years ago.
Performance models had to include things outside just engine enhancements such as transmission tweaks, optimized gearing etc.
The W204 C63 is basically the same performance in many cases as the W205 C63, but the new C300 is much faster than the old one.
Same with Audi’s and BMWs. The narrowing gap between performance models and entry models has less to do with branding and more to do with the evolution of engine design. Performance models aren’t getting worse or more diluted. Entry models are just getting much better.
and about the CLK500(550) having more hp with the C55, it just shows you that the whole one man one engine thing is just marketing anyways.
Truth be be told I do not personally care if the 43 is considered an AMG. I am not even sure how many members in this subforum care either.
My issue is other members going out of their way to come to this subforum for the sole purpose of them making sure that we know that they do not think we are on their level and doing it under the disguise of the 43 isn’t one man one engine none sense.
Look we get that the 63 is more rare and costs more ok? Just admit It has nothing to do with one man one engine and never has. But members just don’t want to admit they are being arrogant over a 10k difference in sticker.
F430 was not mediocre when it was new. I'm not comparing a 10 y.o. C43 to a Camry. I'm comparing a new C43 to a new Camry. There's a difference.
My point is, while the other car have improved leaps and bounds AMG put out a stale product (C43AMG). None of the car magazines/reviewers I read were impressed by it, all unanimously said it's great, capable all-arounder and is good for a DD duties, but is not particularly exciting or excelling in any other way, performance included. Kind of like S5 and 430i. It's a great Mercedes but it's just not a great AMG.
And what magazines are you even reading that they said it was a stale product?
Car and Driver and Motortrend, two of the largest automotive publications (car and driver probably THE largest) both said that it was great.
F430 was not mediocre when it was new. I'm not comparing a 10 y.o. C43 to a Camry. I'm comparing a new C43 to a new Camry. There's a difference.
My point is, while the other car have improved leaps and bounds AMG put out a stale product (C43AMG). None of the car magazines/reviewers I read were impressed by it, all unanimously said it's great, capable all-arounder and is good for a DD duties, but is not particularly exciting or excelling in any other way, performance included. Kind of like S5 and 430i. It's a great Mercedes but it's just not a great AMG.
You lost the little credibility you may have had with that comment alone
And what magazines are you even reading that they said it was a stale product?
Car and Driver and Motortrend, two of the largest automotive publications (car and driver probably THE largest) both said that it was great.
RokenR, a guy who has actually owned every AMG that was ever made, said the C43 is right up there and more than deserving of the AMG badging. But please continue. The C43 sure does deserve to be ridiculed by a cla250 owner of being lacking of performance.
RokenR, a guy who has actually owned every AMG that was ever made, said the C43 is right up there and more than deserving of the AMG badging. But please continue. The C43 sure does deserve to be ridiculed by a cla250 owner of being lacking of performance.
Stale is my own word. It implies lack of development or significant progress in a particular area such as performance. All the reviewers overall like it which I already said a few times and agree it's in the sweet spot. They say a lot of nice things about it. It's a great all around car. Fast enough, but not crazy fast. Handles good but understeers. Ride is choppy. Transmission is not so good. Car magazine summed it up pretty well:
" I loved the 63 – it’s a bonkers, passionate love affair that ends spectacularly. But the car I’ll really miss every day, the one you’d marry for the long term, in sickness and health, is the wonderful C43."
Top Gear says: "That’s a blessing and a curse; on the one hand, the car could be construed as underwhelming, but on the other, you have a carefully calibrated sports coupe (or saloon, or estate, or convertible) that ought to be hilariously easy to live with."
I'm not gonna copy/paste half of the internet, this is just top few results from google.
I have not however seen a single sentence that would express any kind of unrestrained excitement about any specific features of this car the way the do about 63 range.
Originally Posted by munis
RokenR, a guy who has actually owned every AMG that was ever made, said the C43 is right up there and more than deserving of the AMG badging. But please continue. The C43 sure does deserve to be ridiculed by a cla250 owner of being lacking of performance.
Thanks. I'll pass on your words to my wife that her driving the CLA made me lose all my credibility. And I agree with you, nobody should ever comment on any other car besides only those that sit in their garage.
The fact that all these C43 "AMG" people are still on this topic and defending it to death, clearly shows that they know deep down their cars aren't true AMG cars. LOL inferiority complex in full effect.
The fact that all these C43 "AMG" people are still on this topic and defending it to death, clearly shows that they know deep down their cars aren't true AMG cars. LOL inferiority complex in full effect.
I actually feel sorry for you and here is why. I’ve discussed the issue of people who post on forums with intent to be derogatory towards others while trying to prove why they are superior. He says that people who do this have a neurosis. It’s a neurosis called a grandiose narcissist. He says these people must seek prestige and have a need to brag about their possessions in order to cover an inner emptiness. He also states these people have very high rates of depression. I’m guessing you’re a lot like my neighbor with the Lambo Murcielago. Every time he goes anywhere he has to pull his car out into the street and sit there and rev it real loud for about 5 min before he takes off. Then when he comes back he does the same thing before he parks it. Of course he also has to get out with his muscle beach shirt on and show off all his muscles. I’m sure he thinks he’s really cool but I can assure you none of the neighbors do.I bet a lot of us C43 owners feel the same way I do. I bought the car because it ticks the right boxes, regardless of the label. I would’ve been happier is they just called it a Donkey, with no MB star. I don’t like drawing attention to myself and I certainly could have bought any car MB sells, but this is the car I wanted.
I actually feel sorry for you and here is why. I’ve discussed the issue of people who post on forums with intent to be derogatory towards others while trying to prove why they are superior. He says that people who do this have a neurosis. It’s a neurosis called a grandiose narcissist. He says these people must seek prestige and have a need to brag about their possessions in order to cover an inner emptiness. He also states these people have very high rates of depression. I’m guessing you’re a lot like my neighbor with the Lambo Murcielago. Every time he goes anywhere he has to pull his car out into the street and sit there and rev it real loud for about 5 min before he takes off. Then when he comes back he does the same thing before he parks it. Of course he also has to get out with his muscle beach shirt on and show off all his muscles. I’m sure he thinks he’s really cool but I can assure you none of the neighbors do.I bet a lot of us C43 owners feel the same way I do. I bought the car because it ticks the right boxes, regardless of the label. I would’ve been happier is they just called it a Donkey, with no MB star. I don’t like drawing attention to myself and I certainly could have bought any car MB sells, but this is the car I wanted.
That f**ked response is akin to us putting down the C300 and lower cars. They all have their place in the MB lineup and all should be respected for what they are.
MB is responsible for the naming of each car. They call it an AMG, then so be it.
I could have easily have bought the E300, C63s second hand or even pushed a bit harder and bought a brand new C63s. For $130k sticker price there for me was no other option.
In Australia the C63s is like almost $50k more expensive. I cannot justify that price for such small increments of improvement.
If I wanted to be a snob I could easily argue my $130K AUS is just as expensive as any other C43s doesnt mean Im rich. I got the car that I needed and wanted for the right price. Truth be told I was almost going to settle for the E300 as this was my original choice. But a 0-100 time in the low 6s was too slow for me and I wanted something a bit more faster.
Last edited by AMG C43 3LV6; Nov 1, 2018 at 07:46 PM.
Audi has already signified their sports line, S. BMW has no problems doing it as well adding M. It seems too hard for Mercedes to come up with a sport line name without using AMG to clarifying the performance on their sport models.
I got an idea guys, lets do a poll! How should Mercedes name their sport line?
BMW has 320i -> M340i -> M3
Audi has A4 -> S4 -> RS4
Mercedes C300 -> ? -> C63
I think C43 is just fine boys
Audi has already signified their sports line, S. BMW has no problems doing it as well adding M. It seems too hard for Mercedes to come up with a sport line name without using AMG to clarifying the performance on their sport models.
I got an idea guys, lets do a poll! How should Mercedes name their sport line?
BMW has 320i -> M340i -> M3
Audi has A4 -> S4 -> RS4
Mercedes C300 -> ? -> C63
I think C43 is just fine boys
You guys are over thinking this. It is an AMG because they decided to name it so. No further rationale is needed.
A hand build engine doesn’t not make an AMG (even though I like them). ..
Take this example: The 53 is the follow-up engine. That engine is a non AMG engine and is used in the current S500 S-class outside the US.
That engine is part of the new AMG GT 4 door which by any measure is “more” AMG than the c63.
Not because of the engine but because it’s a full AMG design, just like the AMG GT.
It is also nearly twice the price.
The fact that all these C43 "AMG" people are still on this topic and defending it to death, clearly shows that they know deep down their cars aren't true AMG cars. LOL inferiority complex in full effect.
Honestly I think the insecure people are you guys in this forum. Think about it, you guys go out of your way to tell somebody else who is minding their own business that what they have is not what it says on the label for the sole purpose of making yourselves feel better.
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