I emphatically agree! Very well summarized. The re-arranging part is annoying, for sure. What's worse, for me, is worrying that the car will return from the dealer with more problems than it went in with.

I think my local service department does a fantastic job, and everyone I've personally met there (especially the shop foreman) is the type of professional you'd expect to be working with Mercedes. That said, you never know who is moving your car around. Did someone forget they had a pen with a metal clip in their back pocket? Because now the side bolster is now scratched if the seat cover slipped off.

Now the whole layer of COVID, plus all the salt and slush we have in the winter. It's just a hassle, despite how smooth the dealership *tries* to make it. I don't know, maybe it's just me who worries about those little details haha!

I don't think I'll be ready to go electric for another 10-15 years. The batteries aren't efficient enough for my liking. The cost of charging/super-charging is still too high, IMO (the equivalent of $9/gallon). So it's ICE all the way for me until they're literally extinct. Even then, I may stop leasing and buy used lol. At least until they've crossed the point of not only making electric efficient and cost-effective, but dynamic across a range of competitors.

How about you? What are you considering in the future?

Finally, I think I may have stumbled upon the actual issue with the whining noise. Everyone here has been thinking differential. But so many have had several differentials (including me, on my '18) replaced and nothing ultimately changed.

I stumbled across a thread on Bimmerpost re: the xDrive 3-Series/5-Series/7-Series cars describing the exact same noise issue in the 50-70 mph speed range. Culprit? The transfer case.

Someone pulled the xDrive fuse on one of their cars and voila - the noise disappeared! My fiancee has a '21 GLC300 loaner and I noticed today while doing some highway driving, that it also had the same kind of whirring/whining noise at highway speeds (a little quieter because you're sitting up higher in the GLC and get a little more road noise from the tires, etc. - but it's there) that my C43s have had.

Now, some folks may have had a bad or noisy diff in addition to the transfer case noise, but my suspicion that this noise is baked into virtually all 4MATIC cars from a certain year and beyond is making more sense. For some reason, maybe because of the specific torque split on the C43 and other 43 AMG cars, the transfer case noise is more pronounced?

 

Hey ya zibby43, I am glad you are dealing with people that seems to care about your vehicle (even if they don't actually care at least they pretend to, unlike mine who doesn't even try to pretend, anyway, I hope the people you are dealing with genuinely do care and are not pretending to be)

Sorry about your experience and the scratched up side bolster. I too can empathize with the "car returning in worse shape than before" experience. The worse visit was the time when one of my tires were bulging and rim was bent with a ding on the driver's door. I regret not inspecting it before driving it off the lot. They just say I was the one who caused it and I didn't take pictures before dropping the car off. Part of me was because I trusted them. Welp, lesson learned the hard way.

Next time I will take pictures before dropping it off and inspect before leaving. I guess the best part of this was the dent wasn't too bad and was easily fixable and that I was going to drop non-runflats ps4s on it anyways so I guess it didn't matter. However, if I would say I am not pissed, it is clearly a lie. The dealership refused to work with me and blame it on me. Leaving the vehicle at the dealership is worse than leaving the vehicle in a busy supermarket parking lot. Hopefully it is a one-off and it doesn't happen to anyone else. It is legal for us to leave a dashcam on during service but the vehicle is always returned with the dashcam unplugged or that the data is formatted. Told them to not wash the vehicle with the soft cloth as I just hand washed and waxed it a week before. Got ignored and swirl marks everywhere and apaprently there were contaminates in the water they used.

Mhmm, I don't like electric vehicles either. I agree on the cost, once MB has their own charging network, things would become more convenient or some partnership with Tesla on the existing network they have. I consider myself a petrolhead xD. However I can't deny that this is the type of future we are heading. The good things about petrol engine, sound, performance (sans instant torque), and the overall experience is slowly going away as regulations are tighter. I do as well hope ICE sticks for longer. There are lots of problems I am facing on my 2017, and I believe it was a lemon from the start. We don't have the lemon law here but to answer your question, in the near future, I am considering trading in my vehicle for a 2018 C43 as I don't like the facelift as much as pfl. New vehicle wise, maybe I will see how 206 goes and stuff. Likely sticking with MB though. I know I know, despite all of this. More likely I'm just going to get a less problematic 2018 C43 tho.

Interesting observation on your part, thanks for looking it up with other brands and hoping to finally solve this mystery. It totally makes sense that it could be the transfer case, considering how similar (sort of) the E450 4MATIC to the C43 drivetrain wise, but I still don't understand why the C300 didn't make the noise. Canadian C300s are all 4MATIC with a somewhat "normal" torque split compared to C43. I wonder if we can find the fuse for the 4MATIC system and remove it and test it out that way. What I also don't understand is that why some members here have the diff replaced and it solved the issue others didn't, is it just a placebo effect? Thanks for sharing your observation.
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Ugh that's awful man. Especially ignoring your simple request to *not* wash the car! I make the same request. "Leaving the vehicle at the dealership is worse than leaving the vehicle in a busy supermarket parking lot." ----> Quoted for truth lol!

Absolutely crucial to take pictures. I do the same thing now (or I tell them I take photos so they're extra careful). I also had a steering wheel ruined when they accidentally smudged oil on it and then tried to clean it with isopropyl alcohol, which essentially bleached the wheel. They initially denied the damage, but I had the before/after photos, which saved me.

Interesting take on the PFL vs FL. What do you prefer on the PFL? Having owned both, I can say that the interior/tech is truly a big step up on the FL. Same with the rear diffuser and exhaust tips. The PFL has the better front end looks (love the diamond grille), and I think the Perf. Exhaust may be a tad rowdier in terms of crackles and pops.

Re: the transfer case, how many owners in this thread that have had the differentials replaced actually reported a permanent improvement? I haven't gone back and done a count. And some folks haven't replied with a long-term update aside from you, myself, and Sean. I know my fix was temporary. Same with Sean. For the others, I think other drivetrain-related equipment (driveshaft, etc.) was also replaced.

Food for thought. Only other thing I can think of, is that it's possible that some cars have what I suspect to be transfer case issues in conjunction with noisy diffs. Regardless, I am very interested in whether there's a simple fuse pull for the 4MATIC that will take the transfer case out of the equation, and whether that eliminates the sound.

Perhaps the C300 you drove didn't have enough mileage for the issue to manifest? Or that the noise manifested in a different speed range? Always seems more prominent in cold weather.

 

Yikes, sorry for what happened to your steering wheel. It is okay to mess up as long as they admit fault and learn from their mistake and repair it at their expense. I guess that isn't part of their training.

Yup, lesson learned for sure. Will be taking pictures and recording a vehicle walkaround before handing the keys to the service advisor from now on. It is sad because these people don't care as it isn't their own money or their own car.

I 100% agree with what you said with the changes made to the facelift, they are mostly positive changes like a softer suspension (the ride control damping), functional front bumper vents, more aerodynamic wheels (they added that lip on the wheels), and THAT diffuser and THOSE exhaust pipes!, better cooling (at least the coolant normal operating temperature doesn't get as hot, at least from what is shown on the dashboard anyways), the updated version of COMAND, the larger infotainment screen, more horsepower, the facelift headlight technology should be better (mostly taken from the E class), that steering wheel! I am also part of the minority that likes the look of the floating infotainment screen of 205. I think everything looks tacked on right now just that the screen is bigger, nothing really is integrated anymore. They all look afterthought.

Only reason why I don't like some changes is just personal preferences really. I like how "Mercedes" looking the headlights are on the pfl. The gorgeous double eye look straight from the S-class coupe C217 (not sure if they brought all the technology over, doubt it, I am pretty sure the facelift C-class light bulb is more advanced and was taken from the E class). The individual turn signal LEDs is the icing on the cake (imo), I also like the rear taillight more than the facelift. The new taillight reminds me too much about a 2013 Nissan Maxima (imo, it isn't as original as the pfl) think I am part of the minority that prefers the pfl more. The pfl grille I prefer more even though it is the same as the one you get on a pfl C300 coupé. Same goes with the front bumper itself, I just happen to prefer that more (as I prefer it to be more subtle without the flicks). Rear wise, I personally prefer a more subtle look. "The PFL has the better front end looks (love the diamond grille), and I think the Perf. Exhaust may be a tad rowdier in terms of crackles and pops." Yup I agree and for the perf. exhaust yes I notice that too which I prefer on the pfl. Funny enough, I once even made a thread about just buying the facelift and swapping all the components lol but I realized how little sense it made. https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...ights-pfl.html

As for the transfer case, you are right, most who did replace it and say it solved their problem didn't follow up, which is crucial as we can tell the break-in does affect it. This also explains why this issue is still not solved (other than the fact that we are part of the 1% that notices the noise so not a lot of people reported it to MB) It seems that, after the break-in period the sound starts to get louder (and plus at low temperatures as well like you said) Interesting thought on the C300, the vehicle was relatively new can't remember the amount of klicks though but it was below 1500KMs for sure, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if that vehicle starts to make some noise after it adds more miles, should had wrote down the VIN so I can test drive it again in the future (if it isn't sold that is lol) I guess our conclusion from this at the end of the day was, it is normal (at least the shop foreman told me mechanical things do make some noise after all, -shrug-) As for different speeds on the C300, I did try it, it was completely silent as how a MB should be (well other than the wind noise). Placed the vehicle on cruise control at different speeds, turned it off and then try to duplicate the issue by throttle and then let off the gas (basically same procedure used to duplicate the issue on my own vehicle)

What I am still confused so far is why for us who managed to get the foreman on a test drive and those who placed the vehicle on a hoist, didn't they clearly say the noise was coming from the rear differential? Unless I am missing something, perhaps I should read the whole thread again, I think I am totally missing something.

As for the driveshaft, I am not sure actually, I personally don't think it was the culprit. What I do think is, it was the cause of the pulsating vibration.

Moving forward, the AMG 206 should get the panamericana grille but from the teaser MB released, looks like the regular models will get the diamond alike grille but with MB stars all over it.

 

@zibby43 kinda curious what do you think about the 206 so far though? https://media.mercedes-benz.com/c-class
Will it be on your list of cars after your lease is over. Well, I guess it makes more sense to wait till Feb 23rd to decide if you want to put it on the list xD. Thoughts on the grille in the teaser?

Thoughts on the tacked on display?

Back to 205, for curiosity sake, other than that you like the interior changes and exhaust and diffuser (I do too for the facelift), what else you like about it? Personally, I notice some other hidden changes like how the facelift now has cross traffic alert so basically when you backup from parking spots, the radar senses vehicles and warns you (a feature brought down from the E class). Another feature would be that the blind spot works at much lower speeds. It is helpful for double-checking when changing lane on the highway, when in bumper to bumper traffic on one lane to a lane that actually moves (for impatient people like me haha, although studies found that isn't actually faster to change lanes, it is all psychology) The blind spot also stays on for a minute or so after the engine is shut off just incase when you open the door and a bike flies by.

For the sedan, while the taillight looks like the one from a 2013 Nissan Maxima (Guess it was the result of the partnership with Nissan), it does appear brighter than the pfl so that is something to like about and I am sure the majority likes it, it appears more sporty on the C43 than pfl.

I am sure there are other changes I haven't noticed, like new bolts, new washers, new plastic pieces...... https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...new-parts.html

 

@W205C43PFL I am waiting to withhold judgment on the W206 until I can see the full reveal (ideally, in person). The little 3-pointed stars on the grille remind me of the engine covers on the F1 W10 and W11 Formula 1 cars from Merc. Which, to me, is a nice touch.

The huge center stack under the dash? Just don’t know until I can confirm there is still functional storage space within reach for things like my phone, key fob, water bottle, etc.

I also dislike touch screens because you have to clean them often haha. I’m not sure if there will be redundant buttons or not for most of the essential controls.

As to the FL C43, I really like the new gauge cluster displays and the steering wheel with the AMG Drive Control Unit. To be able to see my tire temperatures/pressures paired with my oil and transmission temperatures on one side of the gauges, with HP/TQ/Boost on the other, is a dream come true. I’ve wanted that kind of dedicated configurability for years.

Also, being able to control my drive settings and PE on the steering wheel is so much more convenient than I thought it’d be.

Also like the steering wheel. It just feels a bit more like the wheel in my old W204 C63 from a thickness perspective. Paddle shifters are noticeably larger, too.

As to things I don’t like I forgot to mention, I don’t like the way the transmission behaves in the FL. Particularly in M. Ripping through 1st to 2nd in the PFL was awesome. In the FL, nothing happens in first lol. I mean, I feel like I really have to beat the **** out of the FL to get it in the power band as far as HP is concerned.

On the plus side, I’ve never once had any of the jerking or wild bucking bronco behavior in the FL. It feels much more polished in that respect.

All together, it really comes down to personal preference. In almost every category, the PFL and FL have their distinct advantages/disadvantages. Except, IMO, when it comes to features and interior design. The FL wins comfortably there.

 

Agree on all the points you made, those are the key reasons why people will prefer the facelift.

Agree with your comment on the grille as well, it is an interesting design for sure, can't wait to see it in person.

As for the fingerprints on the touchscreen, I am hoping MB will apply a layer of oleophobic coating to help with smudges. I don't know if it is a good idea but to implement some useful gestures that genuinely improves the experience (not the gimmicky ones on one of the competitors' vehicles) so you touch the screen less often. The s-class have the hover tech, I wonder if they can add a radar in which when you are closer to the screen it actually presses it instead of just hi-lighting it so you don't have to physically touch the screen (problem is it might not be relaible enough)

Ah yes, I noticed the addition of the tire temperature on the facelift during my test drive, it wasn't there before on pfl, you just helped confirm it for me. I do wonder how it works though and if anyway it can be retrofitted on to the pfl.

Hmmm, as for the transmission I didn't really pay attention to the transmission behaviour in manual mode but I do agree it was more more refined for the short test drive in automatic, a lot smoother. (sans adapting to my driving style)

Great attention to detail, I didn't even notice that the steering wheel was thicker.

Totally agree on the drive unit, during my short periods of driving the facelift, it was very convenient indeed. Pressing on the left screen you can choose what components you want to control and then pressing the buttons will turn it on/off. Pressing on the right screen lets you instantly switch to individual mode. Much more easier than setting it from the centre console.

I do need your help though, what you posted makes a lot of sense and it probably is actually the cause of the problem but it didn't answer the question in which, I want to go back to my previous post: "What I am still confused so far is why for us who managed to get the foreman on a test drive and those who placed the vehicle on a hoist, didn't they clearly say the noise was coming from the rear differential? Unless I am missing something, perhaps I should read the whole thread again, I think I am totally missing something." As you would expect, I spent a few hours going through this whole thread again and I still don't understand why the foreman mentions the noise is heard from the rear differential yet the replacements don't solve the issue. Although at this point, I think both of us don't even care any more, the noise doesn't affect the functionality of the car. Should probably divert our energy to something else more worthwhile.

 

I’ll come back and supplement this post later, but I wanted to get to your question first and foremost.

I think the vibration noise/high-frequency resonance is virtually indistinguishable, whether it’s coming from the diff or the transfer case. At least with respect to road testing.

For some, perhaps the diff was also a problem, and thus the primary focus.

Noise problems are the hardest to diagnose with any car. So many things can cause these noises we are describing. However, the fact that multiple diffs are unsuccessful in solving it points to the noise being elsewhere.

Easiest way to test this theory is if the 4MATIC fuse can be pulled. Drive the car at problem speeds and see if the noise is gone.

 

So......

I was wondering, for those who replaced their rear diff under warranty, did you guys break-in that new rear diff just like when you got your vehicle when new?

Curious because since when new, we break-in our engine and therefore will break-in the diffs at the same time.

Thoughts? If you do break-in the new rear differential after the replacement, what kind of procedure did you follow?

Do we even need to break-in diffs nowadays?

 

Because Mercedes wanted the replaced parts returned to Germany, I suspect I was one of the first to have the diff gears replaced in our 2017 C43 sedan.

I did another break-in period after the replacement because it's _always_ better to break in new running parts ... don't overload, keep as cool as possible, run with varied speeds and light loads and RPM. IIRC, I did about 800 km (500 mi).

The car has run flawlessly ever since. Though the car did a number of track-day events, that task is now handled by it's "bratty brother" so it's now our daily driver ... and is the best daily driver I've ever owned (and I'm an Ol' Fart)!

 

Thank you for your reply, glad everything has been going well and continued to be that way for you since. I am guessing during break-in, you didn't put the vehicle in sport+ drive mode and definitely didn't floor it from the start right, did you increase speed in a quick fashion after you start rolling though as the load should be less than from a complete stop or you still accelerate it gradually, did you downshift with the paddles? As for keeping it cool, what was your method of checking the rear diff temperature?

 

The idea with any break-in or run-in process is to:
- run things at a normal operating temperature and never get things too hot ... so no heavy acceleration, better to run when weather is not too hot, etc.
- keep the loads/forces within low to normal operating ranges, especially initially ... so drive gently and smoothly with no heavy acceleration, no pulling trailers or hauling a bunch of heavy passengers, etc.
- keep things at lower RPMs/speeds, especially initially ... so no high revs or high speeds
- keep things varied such as running at various RPMs/speeds (without over-revving or high speeds) ... don't just put on highway miles mostly within a narrow speed range but drive roads that provide varied driving speeds, conditions, etc. without too much stop-n-go driving

While there's no need to be fanatical about break-in, ensuring that "run against each other" surfaces can become gently polished by each other so the surfaces can conform to each other at the microscopic level is worth the effort, assuming you want moving parts to perform at their maximum and have a better chance at a longer life. Mercedes has specific guidelines for each vehicle that help define what constitutes "too high RPMs" or "too fast."

To your specific questions (by inserted number in quote):
[1] No, I used an individual setting that's essentially comfort suspension and sport drive-train ... I'd _always_ turn off the (battery/starter/engine-wearing) eco-start crap! For break-in, I'd stay away from sport+ or race modes because they tend to want to run up to, and maintain, higher RPMs than I'd want during break-in
[2] yes, no WOT action ... in fact, no aggressive throttling, period (yeah, I know, it's _really_ tough!)
[3] gentle smooth acceleration is best during break-in
[4] I didn't aggressively downshift via paddles but, since my individual setting uses sport mode, I would sometimes upshift to knock the RPM/gear down. Note that the car does rev-matching down-shifting when slowing down, so there is some of that going on.
[5] I didn't worry about any temps the standard instrumentation didn't show me. I have faith that, if you follow a reasonable break-in strategy, the car is well-enough designed that I don't need to worry about "those other" temps.

My time on the track with a C43, C63 S and GTR Pro says that AMGs are quite well designed when it comes to handling heat ... well, except for brakes, here they fall short. At track days, I've noticed that the cars that consistently get out there and run full and somewhat aggressive sessions are most likely to be the German cars. Seldom do you see one of them backing off due to high fluid temps. There are other brands that often don't fare so well.

 

That is a very detailed procedure to follow, thank you for sharing. Thank you for taking your time writing all of it and sharing your experience with these cars.

 

You're welcome. I normally believe that "knowledge/experience is best when shared." Hopefully the info is useful to some people.

I'd also add that, when driving "nicely" during break-in, it's a great time to become intimately familiar with the sounds and feel of the vehicle in it's normal/good running condition. Getting those things "settled into your lower neurons" can be valuable as things wear on and you need to determine/identify whether you have an issue and/or troubleshoot an issue ... i.e., it helps to know what constitutes "normal."

 

Thanks again, yes I totally agree and you have a very good point! Thanks again!

Quick question, have you ever applied any ECU or TCU updates to your 2017 vehicle since let's say 2019? Have you ever applied any updates to one and/or both modules? I am wondering if it made a difference in the shifting or the exhaust sound of your vehicle.

 

Can't remember for sure whether the dealer has done any updates or not but I'm thinking there were 1 or 2. However, nothing has permanently changed the shifting and/or (wonderful, performance) exhaust sound.

I know that others have complained about the "jerky mode" in lower gears but, judging from mine, I'd say that's an operator issue. The fact is that, when the C43's drivetrain is set to sport or sport+ mode, the throttle mapping changes drastically and becomes _very_ touchy, especially at the start of the gas-pedal travel. Coming from either the C63 S or th GTR Pro, it normally takes me a few "oops" over-throttle actions when I hop into the C43 because that first 1/4-1/2" of throttle travel is so "active" on the C43, compared to the C63 S and GTR Pro. When in a low gear, you have to have a very sensitive foot to manage the throttle. If you don't, you get into this over-throttle, oops, back off throttle, now got pushed forward which jiggled foot into over-throttle, oops, back off throttle ... and you have the "jerky throttle" mode. #;-) Been there, done that. Don't know why the C43's throttle map is so "sharp" at the start of travel, but it is.

Even with powertrain in sport mode, our C43 makes nice little subdued pops when auto-downshifting under braking coming up to a light. It also has a very nice "snap" when upshifting under power, especially in sport+ mode, where the shifts are quite quick for a non-dual clutch transmission.

In case you hadn't gathered, I _really_ like the C43 as a daily driver.

 

Thanks for your reply and for sharing your experience with the C63 S and the AMG GTR PRO, I agree and that is the infamous "bunny hop" or "rodeo effect" on the C 43.

Honestly, when it happens and the driver can't hold their foot steady, just upshift manually and it stops it immediately, no big deal at all : )

Do you mind testing to see if your vehicle "cold" starts every 30 minutes when both the transmission and engine oil temperatures are in the normal operating temperature zone, so not blue. Basically what I mean is that the engine revs above 1000 RPM when starting the engine again after sitting for 30 minutes acting like the vehicle is cold. Here is what I mean, as described in this thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...r-updates.html

I believe that is the easiest way to tell if your vehicle has the latest updates. I am curious so please do let me know your findings.

Same, I love the C 43 as well, glad to hear you are enjoying yours!

 

Our C43 normally does a warm start if it's up to temp. I say "normally" because there are some (unknown by me) conditions where it'll do a cold start where I think a warm start should be done. Even on a warm start, the RPM will stay elevated for a small number of seconds. I'm well aware of all this because I'm rigorous about letting the RPM drop before putting in gear and moving off (then running gently until warmed ... then "all bets are off").

 

I see, thanks for your reply just to confirm so you checked the amg screen and noticed the car still cold start at some times when the engine oil temperature and transmission fluid temperature is not in the blue zone? If so, yes I think you have the latest updates : )
Ya waiting make sense and wise on your part, it is discouraged to immediately forcing the transmission in drive when the engine is revving above 1.4K+ after start up.

 

@user33 I just realized there is another way to tell if you have the latest update, if you are in manual mode, if you no longer have the "UP!" indicator when you get close to redline, then you have the update. Thanks again to all your answers I especially find the rear diff breaking in instructions helpful.

 

Actually nevermind, I think the new shift lights is what defines as having the new update or maybe I just don't notice it before hmmm, or paid attention, that is despite having the car since 2017. I could had sworn it wasn't there before the update though... well, or maybe I am delusional.

 

Pretty much considered as beating a dead horse right now but what is the consensus on this one? Really hope someone can still chime in and reply.

Normal? Just that it is a characteristic of the vehicle and especially audible when temperatures are below zero? Rear differential not actually broken right just a characteristic and didn't get worse?

Can someone kindly confirm if they got a replacement and there is no such sound at all at those speeds and throttle input?

I seen and heard forum members here with multiple replacements, the under warranty replacements are all remanufactured units (205-350-97-23-80), some even louder than the old one or some that got replaced that resulted in not having the issue only to come back the next winter (assumed the sound come back after break-in?)

May I kindly ask how was break-in performed if any specific guideline or just straight up floor it after the replacement? For example I got mine replaced by in 2019 and I was gentle on it and sound was still there.

Hopefully someone that still have a C43 can chime in, for those that haven't moved on with another vehicle yet, that will be greatly appreciated.

Wanted to bring back this topic (this thread) because of threads like these (S-Class though):
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...-replaced.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...old-start.html

Thanks guys.

 

I had mine replaced and 3rd was the charm. I do not and have not had any recurrence of the noise coating at approx 80 k/hr. I still have the car now has 108k on it and still fine, no issues regardless of time of year. I was told the noise is more of an annoyance than anything, however they changed it twice anyway.

 

That is awesome to hear thanks so much for your reply man, given your experience it means there are rear differentials that doesn't whine in a C 43, I should definitely try to get them to replace it again then. I appreciate you chiming in and replying, thanks again! Hope you continue to enjoy your car and in good health!

 

@GWSHARK I sent you a PM asking you a few questions, if you can answer when you have time that will be awesome but if you can't don't worry about it, thanks again for chiming in this thread and offering to help!