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I just installed my second set of Continental DWS06 All Seasons purchased through TireRack. They are a great tire, but my tire shop (people who installed them) told me I am not able to rotate these tires side to side. He showed me how the tires have "outside" marked on the wall of each tire designating proper position. He was using lingo that I didn't really understand but something about how the treadwall becomes intertwined over time in the direction the tire is supposed to rotate? Therefore, further disabling the ability to rotate them side to side? Any insight would be great...
Also, two questions:
This was shocking to me, do you guys till rotate these things from side to side?
Any ideas of alternate high performance all season tires that can be rotated side to side on our cars?! I just don't want to buy a new set of tires every 10k!
Thank you
Edit- Come to think of it he was telling me about the rear tires, perhaps the front can be rotated side to side?
Last edited by sliqdaddy91; Oct 6, 2020 at 03:25 PM.
That's a good shop that they are telling you this. Most performance tires have a designated outside, which means that if you rotate them to the other side, they will have to change their main rotational direction. The belts inside the tires settle in one direction as you drive primarily forward. Changing that main direction of the tire forces the belts to have to resettle in the other direction. This process weakens them along with the rest of the tire. Generally not advisable. In order to properly rotate a tire side-to-side you need to be able to mount it the other way around (inside becomes outside), so that it maintains the same general direction of rotation. If you rotate the tires, then only front to back and back to front. That's how it's done with performance tires and square setups. Those of us with staggered setups on cars like the C63 don't rotate tires at all.
Last edited by superswiss; Oct 6, 2020 at 04:41 PM.
That's a good shop that they are telling you this. Most performance tires have a designated outside, which means that if you rotate them to the other side, they will have to change their main rotational direction. The belts inside the tires settle in one direction as you drive primarily forward. Changing that main direction of the tire forces the belts to have to resettle in the other direction. This process weakens them along with the rest of the tire. Generally not advisable. In order to properly rotate a tire side-to-side you need to be able to mount it the other way around (inside becomes outside), so that it maintains the same general direction of rotation. If you rotate the tires, then only front to back and back to front. That's how it's done with performance tires and square setups. Those of us with staggered setups on cars like the C63 don't rotate tires at all.
Not sure you are correct on this one. The PSS4's on your car are marked inside\outside due to the fact that different rubber compounds are used on the inside and outside edges. I have been through multiple sets off PSS tires on my Porsches and have always rotated left to right every 6k-8k miles.
Just to be sure, I re-confirmed this with technical support at Tire Rack before posting.
What you are describing applies if the the tire is marked directional and has distinct direction of rotation nomenclature and arrows on both the sidewalls. In that case, no, the tires cannot be rotated.
Not sure you are correct on this one. The PSS4's on your car are marked inside\outside due to the fact that different rubber compounds are used on the inside and outside edges. I have been through multiple sets off PSS tires on my Porsches and have always rotated left to right every 6k-8k miles.
Just to be sure, I re-confirmed this with technical support at Tire Rack before posting.
What you are describing applies if the the tire is marked directional and has distinct direction of rotation nomenclature and arrows on both the sidewalls. In that case, no, the tires cannot be rotated.
I am correct on this. Directional tires in addition have tread patterns that only work in one direction. Those you don't wanna install the wrong way under any circumstances, but directional tires have nothing to do with the tire's internals. Yes, tires like the PS4S have an inside/outside, because their tread pattern and in case of the PS4S compound is not symmetric. That does not change the fact that the belts inside of the tire do settle in one direction from the road force. Actually, for the PS4S you can disregard what I said to some extent, because it doesn't have metal belts. The issue with metal belts settling one way and then the other way is that metal starts to get weaker if you keep bending it forward and backwards. To what extent it is an issue depends on your driving. I personally wouldn't go do aggressive driving with potentially weakened belts, but for regular daily driving it probably won't matter.
As long as they non-directional, asymmetrical tread patterns, you should be able to rotate them. With that said, I just rolled 36k miles (and replaced) without rotating my AS3+'s. Most manufacturers warranty staggered setups for half the mileage of their normal warranty, so I'm more than happy with those results.
Meant to check earlier. Just for completeness, here's what the owner's manual says. I highlighted the important sentence. MB itself advises against changing the direction of rotation, so no side to side wheel rotation unless you can reverse the tire and maintain its previous direction of rotation.
Last edited by superswiss; Oct 6, 2020 at 10:35 PM.
Straight from the manufacturer. Pretty much what everyones saying. Non-directional, anywhere you want. Directional, one way only. Outter label tires face goes outside.
Straight from the manufacturer. Pretty much what everyones saying. Non-directional, anywhere you want. Directional, one way only. Outter label tires face goes outside.
Just to be clear, this is for first time mounting of the tire. Once it has been mounted and driven, it's not recommended to change the direction of rotation, as even stated in the owner's manual (see above).
That M-B manual says both Rotate and Don't Change direction - referring presumably to AMGs with staggered wheels. Not very helpful I'd say.
Continental describes mounting but not Rotating. Also not helpful here.
I think the OP should ask Continental for their position on this, unless he already has it via TireRack. Once mounted, can the tires be switched left to right, or not?
That M-B manual says both Rotate and Don't Change direction - referring presumably to AMGs with staggered wheels. Not very helpful I'd say.
That part of the manual actually comes from the regular C Class manual. AMGs have a supplemental manual, which has no additional notes on tire rotation. So what I posted above applies even to the C 300.
It only takes around 100mi for the belts to settle in a tire whether it’s symmetrical or asymmetrical. Once it’s settled I leave it alone and don’t rotate (side to side). Belts do settle in a tire, and there is a weakening effect on the tire if the rotational direction is changed. Sometimes, it can result in bulges because of the belt breaking or splitting when the rotation is changed after it has settled.
Ok so the consensus is to not rotate them, and then turn them in after say 10k with TireRack at which point they may honor some kind of threadware warranty?
Ok so the consensus is to not rotate them, and then turn them in after say 10k with TireRack at which point they may honor some kind of threadware warranty?
Not quite. What's been said is not to rotate side to side, but with a square setup you are still required to rotate front to back as per recommendation for the tire warranties to hold. Typically with the camber setups found on performance cars, the inner edge of the front tires wears more, while the center of the rear tires wears more. So by rotating them front to back you get a more even wear across the entire surface. Michelin for example has a 30k mile warranty for square setups where rotation is possible, but the same warranty is only 15k miles for a staggered setup where rotation isn't possible.
EDIT: Also, proper alignment is a prerequisite. How old is your car and when did you have it last aligned? Should check the alignment at least once a year.
Last edited by superswiss; Oct 8, 2020 at 06:42 PM.
I'm throwing that out here because I've always followed the rear to front, cross the fronts to the rear pattern ("rearward cross" in that article) when rotating asymmetrical, non-directional tires. Most everything in that article is what I've been told by every tire shop of the last 20 years...
The "E" rotation is what we're after for our cars, but still, some quasi-official documented guidelines.
I'm throwing that out here because I've always followed the rear to front, cross the fronts to the rear pattern ("rearward cross" in that article) when rotating asymmetrical, non-directional tires. Most everything in that article is what I've been told by every tire shop of the last 20 years...
The "E" rotation is what we're after for our cars, but still, some quasi-official documented guidelines.
I just installed my second set of Continental DWS06 All Seasons purchased through TireRack. They are a great tire, but my tire shop (people who installed them) told me I am not able to rotate these tires side to side. He showed me how the tires have "outside" marked on the wall of each tire designating proper position. He was using lingo that I didn't really understand but something about how the treadwall becomes intertwined over time in the direction the tire is supposed to rotate? Therefore, further disabling the ability to rotate them side to side? Any insight would be great...
Also, two questions:
This was shocking to me, do you guys till rotate these things from side to side?
Any ideas of alternate high performance all season tires that can be rotated side to side on our cars?! I just don't want to buy a new set of tires every 10k!
Thank you
Edit- Come to think of it he was telling me about the rear tires, perhaps the front can be rotated side to side?
Pretty standard and simple really. Tires marked with INSIDE and OUTSIDE on the edge of the tire tells you all you need to know. They can NOT be rotated.
Pretty standard and simple really. Tires marked with INSIDE and OUTSIDE on the edge of the tire tells you all you need to know. They can NOT be rotated.
Your statement is quite emphatic, but wrong. I would challenge you to support your argument with direct quotes from a tire manufacturer's website.
You are confusing a asymmetrical tire (marked inside\outside) with a directional tire (marked with directional arrows).
I changed the original summer only MOE conti from side to side and car hasn't exploded yet. This was my end of 2nd year driving like this and threads on both fronts and rears are in good shape for coming 3rd year.
Just some food for thought on the continued discussion. If we ignore the settling of the belts for a moment, moving tires from side to side really doesn't do much unless you turn them around on the wheel. Otherwise the outside is still the outside and if you have camber wear in the front for example, it will just continue. This is assuming you have a proper alignment of course. What you really wanna do when moving the tires side to side is move the inside of the tire to the outside, so that the inner edge and outer edge wear balances out. This will then also maintain the direction of rotation. However, as established, this is not possible with tires that have a dedicated outside. With those tires, really all you can do is move the front to back, so that the less aggressive camber in the rear balances out the wear across the entire tire.
Last edited by superswiss; Oct 12, 2020 at 03:05 PM.
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