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What is everyone using on the track (or for autocrosses) for tires, brakes, and wheels?
I used to track and autocross my 2006 C230 Sport 6-spped a few times each year. The sport package had 17" stagger size wheels. For track tires, I bought another set of 17" MB wheels and put on a set of Nitto NT-01 in a slightly wider but proper fitting size. I added Carbotech brake pads for my occasional weekend at the track (mostly Mid-Ohio, but I've been on Nelson Ledges and Summit Point). Stock brake pads were fine for autocross.
Now, I'm shopping for a C450/C43 sedan and most of the cars have 18" wheels, only a few with optional 19". Either way, I'm having difficulty finding track tires in either of the MB stock (or near stock) sizes. I usually start shopping at TireRack, then also look elsewhere, but this size track tires are hard to find. What are you guys using? https://www.tirerack.com/tires/types...ory=TRACK_COMP
I have read a lot of threads about people buying wider 19x8.5, 19x9.5 wheels, I think for appearance, but they have all sorts of questions about wheel size (offset), tire size, and spacers. Often it is complicated with suspension changes as well, which I don't plan to make. Does it make it easier to find proper track tire sizes with a wider wheel than stock?
One reason I may want 19" wheels is that if I end up going to the track more than I did with the old C230 then I might want to install bigger brakes. Either C63 brakes, which would require 19" wheels, or some after market brake kit. Does anyone have experience with after market brake kits in 18" wheels? Is it best to move to 19" wheels for that?
That's a lot of questions for a guy who doesn't even have the car, yet! But, I always try to think ahead and I'd appreciate your input or constructive criticism.
Last edited by GermanCarShow; 04-05-2022 at 06:52 PM.
Hey, if what you are looking to gain from your C450/C43 is better lap time, then you probably would like to go with the 18" because it would be lighter. Regarding tires, there are plenty of people that have talked about what they are running hence why may not take the time to reply. Check the 0-60 time thread. Everyone shares their set up and tires that they use. I personally care about how it looks so I'm running some heavy 20"x 9.5 and as tires 245x35x20 all seasons. Regarding the brakes, what exactly is your issue with the breaks they come with? How much are you planning on pushing your car to?
I have 19" Enkei Raijin on mine now, but a set of 18" AMG stock wheels will be my autocross setup. There are so many tires that will work- if you're doing a dedicated set, then I'd go with fast-wearing sticky ones- but for me, I think I might just run some medium wear-rated performance tires that may not be great on track days but would last on the street. I'm getting too old to swap wheels and stuff all the time.
Thanks for the reply, @SweetAlpaca . Yes, lap time! Wheel and tire weight is definitely a consideration. I will check out the 0-60 thread, but I assumed the best tires for that may not be the best tires for the track. I'm sure it will be an educational read regardless.
If I were a serious SCCA racer, I'd be in a Porsche or BMW or something, but I'm just a weekend warrior out to have fun several weekends a year at club HPDE's and autocrosses in my daily driver. I did this in my W203 C230 years ago and I miss it. So, track tires on another set of wheels are step one. I'm trying to stay in stock 18" or 19" wheels so I don't have to deal with spacers and/or suspension adjustments, but it seems competition tires (I had Nitto NT-01 in the past) are hard to come by in those sizes, or compatible sizes near that. I was hoping to hear what others are using on-track.
Regarding brakes, I've read that some people have had some issues with C450/C43 brakes on the track and need to drive a little conservative with them. I used Carbotech brake pads as my only upgrade on my C230, but I think the stock rotors had a hard time dealing with the heat from those. Brake upgrades are common upgrade, but I'll give the stock ones a try first. Even if I end up using 18" wheels for the track tires, I'm sure there are aftermarket upgrades that will fit. I was thinking 19" wheels for the track because it should be a simple swap to drop in C63 brakes (but I have not researched) or for the aftermarket the options would be greater. That would also force me to 19" wheels for the street.
@VTSummit Tires make SOOOO much difference that even with an aging back I will still tote a set to the track with me. And, I don't want extreme summer tires, I'm looking for genuine track tires like Michelin Sport Pilot Cup or similar, which are hard to find in stock or near stock sizes. It seems most people are adding 1" to the stock width by going to 8.5"/9.5" wide, so I might have to do that.
How's your track experience so far OP? Seriously considering taking my C450 to the track. What setup did you end up going with? I'll probably change out the brake fluid to SRF and put some better tires on to start (run flats probably won't cut it, lol).
@Speed2K Thanks for the follow up on this old thread. It took me some time last year to actually get a setup, I didn't hit the track until this year, and I screwed up with lug bolts so I didn't even get to use my track wheels/tires! I didn't want to deal with spacers and/or centering rings, but that's what I ended up doing. I bought a set of 18" Enkie PF01 wheels, which have a larger center bore than M-B, and they weren't the right off-sets. They were basically new (still had stickers on them) and had mounted/balanced Nitto NT-01 tires that were also just as new, so for $1,000 I thought that was a great deal. I then got aluminum spacers made for the front, that also act like centering rings, and aluminum centering rings for the back (rears have a bit of poke, but no rubbing yet). I had to get cone seat lug bolts for the Enkies, a lot longer on the front and just a touch longer on the rear. Mounted everything up a few days before my first event (last month!) and the front bolts were only grabbing about 5 out of the 7 threads in the hub. Too short! So, I'll get longer ones. I did install Porterfield R4S pads, but I didn't get my high-temp brake fluid in the car yet. I ran with autointerests.com (great organization!!) at Nelson Ledges track in NE Ohio. I had a ton of fun, even on my Pirelli summer run flats. I did lose the brake pedal a couple times, and my instructor said to brake later, firmer, and get off the brakes sooner. I was "highway braking", which was very smooth, but allowed too much temp to build up in the brakes. As far as speed, I got to 122 on the track's back stretch, but the braking zone for the next bend had uneven pavement and made things a bit scary! Anyway, I'll hope to go to Mid-Ohio in July or August with the same organization. I can't say enough positive things about autointerests.com, so if you live in MI, OH, PA area, check them out. Next time I'll have the right brake fluid installed, and I'll have the right bolts to use the track tires/wheels. I'm also looking for local autocross events. I know I can do SCCA, but I've heard you spend a bit extra there for fewer runs compared to an autocross run by a local club. Our MB Club used to run autocross events, but we lost access to our facility. Same problem for local PCA. I've also reached out to BMW Club. Get your car out there and use it!
@Speed2K Thanks for the follow up on this old thread. It took me some time last year to actually get a setup, I didn't hit the track until this year, and I screwed up with lug bolts so I didn't even get to use my track wheels/tires! I didn't want to deal with spacers and/or centering rings, but that's what I ended up doing. I bought a set of 18" Enkie PF01 wheels, which have a larger center bore than M-B, and they weren't the right off-sets. They were basically new (still had stickers on them) and had mounted/balanced Nitto NT-01 tires that were also just as new, so for $1,000 I thought that was a great deal. I then got aluminum spacers made for the front, that also act like centering rings, and aluminum centering rings for the back (rears have a bit of poke, but no rubbing yet). I had to get cone seat lug bolts for the Enkies, a lot longer on the front and just a touch longer on the rear. Mounted everything up a few days before my first event (last month!) and the front bolts were only grabbing about 5 out of the 7 threads in the hub. Too short! So, I'll get longer ones. I did install Porterfield R4S pads, but I didn't get my high-temp brake fluid in the car yet. I ran with autointerests.com (great organization!!) at Nelson Ledges track in NE Ohio. I had a ton of fun, even on my Pirelli summer run flats. I did lose the brake pedal a couple times, and my instructor said to brake later, firmer, and get off the brakes sooner. I was "highway braking", which was very smooth, but allowed too much temp to build up in the brakes. As far as speed, I got to 122 on the track's back stretch, but the braking zone for the next bend had uneven pavement and made things a bit scary! Anyway, I'll hope to go to Mid-Ohio in July or August with the same organization. I can't say enough positive things about autointerests.com, so if you live in MI, OH, PA area, check them out. Next time I'll have the right brake fluid installed, and I'll have the right bolts to use the track tires/wheels. I'm also looking for local autocross events. I know I can do SCCA, but I've heard you spend a bit extra there for fewer runs compared to an autocross run by a local club. Our MB Club used to run autocross events, but we lost access to our facility. Same problem for local PCA. I've also reached out to BMW Club. Get your car out there and use it!
Haha, wow, NT01s! Great deal though. I had PF01s on a previous car before. Any side shots of the wheels on your car? I just might try running the runflats. Too bad you're so far away, it would be cool to run with another w205.
Also important to remember - in the pursuit of front row of the grid lap times....
OEM THERE IS NO FRONT CAMBER (OR CASTER) AND ALSO NO REAR CAMBER TO ADJUST TIRE CONTACT ANGLES TO SPREAD LOAD TRACTION MORE EVENLY.
WITH ADJUSTMENT CAPABILITY - means you can dial in extra negative Camber and track width to dramatically reduce understeer in the endeavor to hit those corner apexes every time and go deeper into the corners with increased traction and braking response.
WHILE DAY TO DAY COMMUTING - resolve “costly premature excess edge tire wear” caused through high cambered roads with passenger side edge wear, or fitting wide profile tires, load carrying or lowering or just having ongoing adjustment capability to resolve curb knock damage.
UNIQUE K-MAC PATENTED DESIGNS - allow precise, fast “single wrench adjustment” - Ultimate direct on alignment rack / under load !
MANUFACTURING A “TOTAL SYSTEM” FOR W205 C450 / C43 !
SEE SPOILER
Spoiler
FRONT SUSPENSION
FRONT CAMBER (ONLY) #503416-1i $345(Both Sides).
Less cost then 1 Hi performance tire (and with fitment without need for arm removal).
FRONT CAMBER (& CASTER) #503416K $480(Both Sides)
Precisely adjustable Caster bushes replace the OEM soft rubber, oil and air voided bushes with Monoball / self centering. Allowing significantly increased brake and steering response.
EXTRA CAMBER (& CASTER) UPPER ARM BUSHINGS #503316-2J $380 (Both Sides) - Upper arm inner bushes also eliminating the OEM soft rubber and advantage of retaining the existing OEM high strength forged alloy arms.
REAR SUSPENSION
CAMBER (& EXTRA TOE) #502226K $480(Both Sides)
(And with fitment without need for arm removal).
UPPER CAMBER ARMS (& EXTRA TOE) #502226-1M $695 (Both Sides)
Unlike most other brands not soft extruded or machined billet aluminum but hi-strength chromoly with H/Duty performance bushings.
NOTE: Above #502226K “Lower arm” adjuster kit has been especially designed to supercede “upper arm” adjusters. By allowing to be “quicker and easier” to both install and adjust. No longer trial and error. Instead fast precise single wrench accurately (under load) direct on alignment rack. Also when adjusting to resolve premature inner edge tire wear #502226K “retains important clearance” - Top of tire to outer fender !
UPRATED PERFORMANCE BUSHINGS FOR THE 6 MULTI LINK ARMS #502628K $480(Both Sides)
Less rear end flex, twist, loss of traction especially when applying power to lane change / overtake.
DHL Express delivery $40 one kit ($20 each extra).
AUDI to VOLVO - K-MAC Experience Of Resolving OEM Suspension Shortcomings Since 1964 !
Haha, yeah, I think if I decide to track this car more often, a solution to add camber is something I would consider. Camber limitation isn't just a MB problem, other cars have the same issue.
Haha, wow, NT01s! Great deal though. I had PF01s on a previous car before. Any side shots of the wheels on your car?
I don't. I'll have to take some pics when I get those longer wheel bolts and mount everything up for testing. I wasn't worried about looks, I was worried about getting a wheel/tire set that (I could make) fit for a reasonable amount of money.
Haha, wow, NT01s! Great deal though. I had PF01s on a previous car before. Any side shots of the wheels on your car? I just might try running the runflats. Too bad you're so far away, it would be cool to run with another w205.
Well, I got to Mid-Ohio a couple weekends ago. Here's how the car looks with those Enkie wheels. And, yes, you can get a 10x10 canopy, 4 wheels/tires, a floor jack & some other tools, a helmet, and overnight bag, and more into a C43.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by GermanCarShow
Well, I got to Mid-Ohio a couple weekends ago. Here's how the car looks with those Enkie wheels. And, yes, you can get a 10x10 canopy, 4 wheels/tires, a floor jack & some other tools, a helmet, and overnight bag, and more into a C43.
And drove great! I need to work on minimizing understeer, and without something like our K-Mac sponsor's equipment, I'm just going to have to use tire pressures and technique for now.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by GermanCarShow
And drove great! I need to work on minimizing understeer, and without something like our K-Mac sponsor's equipment, I'm just going to have to use tire pressures and technique for now.
04-05-2022, 03:13 PM
I didn't want to deal with spacers and/or centering rings, but that's what I ended up doing. I bought a set of 18" Enkie PF01 wheels, which have a larger center bore than M-B, and they weren't the right off-sets. They were basically new (still had stickers on them) and had mounted/balanced Nitto NT-01 tires that were also just as new, so for $1,000 I thought that was a great deal. I then got aluminum spacers made for the front, that also act like centering rings, and aluminum centering rings for the back (rears have a bit of poke, but no rubbing yet). I had to get cone seat lug bolts for the Enkies, a lot longer on the front and just a touch longer on the rear. Mounted everything up a few days before my first event (last month!) and the front bolts were only grabbing about 5 out of the 7 threads in the hub. Too short! So, I'll get longer ones. I did install Porterfield R4S pads, but I didn't get my high-temp brake fluid in the car yet. I ran with autointerests.com (great organization!!) at Nelson Ledges track in NE Ohio. I had a ton of fun, even on my Pirelli summer run flats. I did lose the brake pedal a couple times, and my instructor said to brake later, firmer, and get off the brakes sooner. I was "highway braking", which was very smooth, but allowed too much temp to build up in the brakes. As far as speed, I got to 122 on the track's back stretch, but the braking zone for the next bend had uneven pavement and made things a bit scary! Anyway, I'll hope to go to Mid-Ohio in July or August with the same organization. I can't say enough positive things about autointerests.com, so if you live in MI, OH, PA area, check them out. Next time I'll have the right brake fluid installed, and I'll have the right bolts to use the track tires/wheels. I'm also looking for local autocross events. I know I can do SCCA, but I've heard you spend a bit extra there for fewer runs compared to an autocross run by a local club. Our MB Club used to run autocross events, but we lost access to our facility. Same problem for local PCA. I've also reached out to BMW Club. Get your car out there and use it!
