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I thought I would try starting a thread that could be a long running thread focused on our cars driving on race tracks. I found a number of threads on a number of topics (links below), but maybe like the wheel/tire fitment guide or other extensive, authoritative threads, we could compile a lot of details in this thread about track days, car prep, parts used, and more.
I bought my 2017 C43 in May 2022 with about 49,000 miles on it from the original owner. I ran my first track days in June and Aug 2023. Car has about 59,000 miles on it now. I used:
- Nitto-01 tires (245/40 R18 25.6 lbs, 275/35 R18 28.2 lbs)
- Enkie wheels (8x18 ET45 18.5 lbs, 9x18 ET35 20.1 lbs with 75mm center bores)
- Centering spacers 14mm in front and centering rings in rear
- Motul 660 brake fluid
- Porterfield R4S brake pads
My track days have been at Nelson Ledges and Mid-Ohio this year. I drove with autointerests.com organization, which operates events at Gingerman Raceway (MI), the two mentioned OH tracks, and Pitt Race Complex (PA). They have used other tracks in the past and adjust depending on participation levels. They're great and I recommend them but would like to hear of others in my area. I'm not ready for straight open track days, I like the HPDE environment with different run groups of different experience levels, controlled passing, etc.
Regarding my parts used, the only problem I had was uneven pad wear - I just used them up 100% on one side of each caliper. One side of the caliper was doing more work than the other side. The difference was worse on the right (passenger) caliper than the left. This is probably a caliper issue, not a pad issue. For wear examples, see the photos in this specific post I found. Nice to know I'm not the only one. https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...ml#post7805098
To battle pad wear, it's almost impossible to find true racing pads for our calipers. I'm thinking EBC Bluestuff may be a step up from what I was using, and also a step up from the EBC Yellowstuff several members have used. They say it should be better for track days. https://ebcbrakes.com/products/ebc-b...ay-brake-pads/
I found it is available for C43 AMG fitment at Jegs here in USA. No real description on their site, so I had to copy the Mfg part number and look it up on EBC's site. https://www.jegs.com/i/EBC-Brakes/87...L+%2F+2996+%29
For reference, here are a bunch of links to other track related threads I found, but let's see if we can keep the discussions in this thread.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by GermanCarShow
I thought I would try starting a thread that could be a long running thread focused on our cars driving on race tracks. I found a number of threads on a number of topics (links below), but maybe like the wheel/tire fitment guide or other extensive, authoritative threads, we could compile a lot of details in this thread about track days, car prep, parts used, and more.
I bought my 2017 C43 in May 2022 with about 49,000 miles on it from the original owner. I ran my first track days in June and Aug 2023. Car has about 59,000 miles on it now. I used:
- Nitto-01 tires (245/40 R18 25.6 lbs, 275/35 R18 28.2 lbs)
- Enkie wheels (8x18 ET45 18.5 lbs, 9x18 ET35 20.1 lbs with 75mm center bores)
- Centering spacers 14mm in front and centering rings in rear
- Motul 660 brake fluid
- Porterfield R4S brake pads
My track days have been at Nelson Ledges and Mid-Ohio this year. I drove with autointerests.com organization, which operates events at Gingerman Raceway (MI), the two mentioned OH tracks, and Pitt Race Complex (PA). They have used other tracks in the past and adjust depending on participation levels. They're great and I recommend them but would like to hear of others in my area. I'm not ready for straight open track days, I like the HPDE environment with different run groups of different experience levels, controlled passing, etc.
Regarding my parts used, the only problem I had was uneven pad wear - I just used them up 100% on one side of each caliper. One side of the caliper was doing more work than the other side. The difference was worse on the right (passenger) caliper than the left. This is probably a caliper issue, not a pad issue. For wear examples, see the photos in this specific post I found. Nice to know I'm not the only one. https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...ml#post7805098
To battle pad wear, it's almost impossible to find true racing pads for our calipers. I'm thinking EBC Bluestuff may be a step up from what I was using, and also a step up from the EBC Yellowstuff several members have used. They say it should be better for track days. https://ebcbrakes.com/products/ebc-b...ay-brake-pads/
I found it is available for C43 AMG fitment at Jegs here in USA. No real description on their site, so I had to copy the Mfg part number and look it up on EBC's site. https://www.jegs.com/i/EBC-Brakes/87...L+%2F+2996+%29
For reference, here are a bunch of links to other track related threads I found, but let's see if we can keep the discussions in this thread.
To battle pad wear, it's almost impossible to find true racing pads for our calipers. I'm thinking EBC Bluestuff may be a step up from what I was using, and also a step up from the EBC Yellowstuff several members have used. They say it should be better for track days. https://ebcbrakes.com/products/ebc-b...ay-brake-pads/
Well, I guess it's not impossible! CarboTech claims to have them for our cars, of course for considerably more cost than most other brake pads. Use the Product Search to find a whole line of track use brake pads. Carbotech – CT Brakes
I cannot add much to the discussion as I run stock w206 c43. I prefer club days which are open track and you can drive by yourself or with instructor. The track is usually empty on the club days as it's then for members only.
I cannot add much to the discussion as I run stock w206 c43. I prefer club days which are open track and you can drive by yourself or with instructor. The track is usually empty on the club days as it's then for members only.
I would prefer that too, but don't have the $$$ to be in a track club. I'll watch the W206 sub-forum for any track experiences you share. Enjoy!
I thought I would try starting a thread that could be a long running thread focused on our cars driving on race tracks. I found a number of threads on a number of topics (links below), but maybe like the wheel/tire fitment guide or other extensive, authoritative threads, we could compile a lot of details in this thread about track days, car prep, parts used, and more.
I bought my 2017 C43 in May 2022 with about 49,000 miles on it from the original owner. I ran my first track days in June and Aug 2023. Car has about 59,000 miles on it now. I used:
- Nitto-01 tires (245/40 R18 25.6 lbs, 275/35 R18 28.2 lbs)
- Enkie wheels (8x18 ET45 18.5 lbs, 9x18 ET35 20.1 lbs with 75mm center bores)
- Centering spacers 14mm in front and centering rings in rear
- Motul 660 brake fluid
- Porterfield R4S brake pads
My track days have been at Nelson Ledges and Mid-Ohio this year. I drove with autointerests.com organization, which operates events at Gingerman Raceway (MI), the two mentioned OH tracks, and Pitt Race Complex (PA). They have used other tracks in the past and adjust depending on participation levels. They're great and I recommend them but would like to hear of others in my area. I'm not ready for straight open track days, I like the HPDE environment with different run groups of different experience levels, controlled passing, etc.
Regarding my parts used, the only problem I had was uneven pad wear - I just used them up 100% on one side of each caliper. One side of the caliper was doing more work than the other side. The difference was worse on the right (passenger) caliper than the left. This is probably a caliper issue, not a pad issue. For wear examples, see the photos in this specific post I found. Nice to know I'm not the only one. https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...ml#post7805098
To battle pad wear, it's almost impossible to find true racing pads for our calipers. I'm thinking EBC Bluestuff may be a step up from what I was using, and also a step up from the EBC Yellowstuff several members have used. They say it should be better for track days. https://ebcbrakes.com/products/ebc-b...ay-brake-pads/
I found it is available for C43 AMG fitment at Jegs here in USA. No real description on their site, so I had to copy the Mfg part number and look it up on EBC's site. https://www.jegs.com/i/EBC-Brakes/87...L+%2F+2996+%29
For reference, here are a bunch of links to other track related threads I found, but let's see if we can keep the discussions in this thread.
I tried posting to another tpms thread and got no response, so I'll try here too.
My track wheels/tires don't have tpms sensors. Warnings are distracting on the track! Is there a way for ME to disable tpms? I know a dealership won't do it. Hoping I can myself. Thanks.
No tpms replies yet, so I'll bring up another topic.
One thing that has been difficult to find are brake rotors that are more track focused and fit with the factory calipers. Anyone know anything about this Paragon Brakes company? They offer a product. https://paragonbrakes.com/paragon-2-...-c43-amg-w205/
Have you used them, on the track specifically? I don't see Google results other than the eBay auctions. I don't get any search results in the entire forums here.
Last edited by GermanCarShow; 04-08-2024 at 10:30 PM.
OK, I'll state the obvious -- "Take a chance" is something you _really don't_ want to do with brakes, especially when you track the car!
@user33 Hi. I have been scouring the forum for information on brakes for track use. Years ago, you sold some EBC pads that were RP-X and you said they were the best track pads you've used. Is that still the case? AMG C63/S Race/Brake Pads - MBWorld.org Forums
According to EBC Parts Finder, they don't have RP-1 or RP-X to fit the w205 C43. What other pads have your tried on your car(s)? I'll be using new EBC Bluestuff pads with new M-B rotors this weekend at Mid-Ohio. Carbotech X-10 is another option.
Last edited by GermanCarShow; 04-09-2024 at 07:08 PM.
When I tracked the C43 sedan, I ran stock brakes (both rotors and pads) with MOTUL race fluid. While it was my initial track-day car so I wasn't as aggressive as I am now, it was on a track that's notoriously hard on brakes (and tires). I did 3 track days in the C43 sedan and was amazed that the stock brakes were not only OK but I still haven't replaced the front pads (over 40K km) ... though will be before the summer, as the front pads are about to hit the sensor. I do pay attention to braking technique, however, going hard on the brakes for the initial braking zone then trailing off when executing the turn. That does help by generating the most heat when you're still going the fastest and have the best cooling airflow.
For comparison, on that same track, I blew through the stock front pads on my C63 S in a few sessions. Yeah, it's a shame that there are not more performance things for the C43. It's a car that's underestimated (and even poo-poo'd) by a lot of people ... primarily people who've not actually "exercised" one.
My track days at Mid-Ohio were a great learning experience. My setup was/is:
- Motul 660 fluid
- MB rotors
- EBC Bluetech pads
- Enkie wheels (.5 inches wider than stock, front and rear)
- Nitto NT-01 tires
This was the first event held on the freshly resurfaced track. I guess they scrapped about 6" of asphalt off the top and resurfaced from there.
On Friday it was about 45 degrees, raining lightly, and windy all day (and the two days before!) so there were lots of discussion on how well the surface might wick the rain away and what traction would really be like. It used to be like ICE in the rain, terrible. There are a lot of elevation changes in there track, so there were streams crossing the track and, in some places, standing water (mostly later in the day). I kept my stock wheels on (with Michelin Pilot Sport All Season tires!) for the rain and once I learned to trust the level of traction provide by the asphalt and trust my stability control, I ended up going pretty fast and steady around corners. On the back stretch, I hit 100 mph in the morning, but extra water dropped that down to 80 mph in the afternoon. Some guy in a BMW M4 Coupe Competition hydroplaned, went across the grass and into a concrete barrier. He was OK, but he hit hard enough to deploy all the air bags. He was in my run group, but I didn't see it happen and I didn't see the car after it was towed off. My brakes seemed to perform fine in these circumstances.
On Saturday, it got up to about 55, was sunny all day, and still windy (which helped dry things out!). With the track tires/wheels on, I was ready to put some heat into my tires and brakes. My car is still limited to 135 mph and my digital speedo showed 132 a number of times on the back stretch. That's difficult to get used to for the first time! So, that led to some heavy braking there, as well as in other parts of the track, and the car seemed predictable again for the most part. I had occasional unsteadiness but that might be because I was still on stock MB pads in the rear. I don't know. The car would wiggle a little bit at the end of the longest braking zones. I'll change those out too, I already have the EBC pads for rear. The front pad wear was fine! Lots of pad left after one hard day, and I'm still learning to be smooth in transitions on/off brakes, on/off throttle, and in/out of corners. So, I'm saying I'm still hard on brakes. I think this is a good set up for anyone new to HPDE. If I have the time & money to do this a few more times this year then I'll give more reports.
AMG C450/C43 “Equals Performance” - Yet OEM there is only Front and Rear TOE (directional) adjustment ! (OEM Front and Rear Camber is non adjustable - is fixed to suit “Showroom Height” conditions only).
IT IS ALL TO DO WITH EVER INCREASING SPEED OF NEW CAR ASSEMBLY LINES - stopping to actually set adjustable Camber is no longer a option. With onus back on owners to fund premature tire replacement.
YET TRACK DAYS :
AMG high performance - but the frustration of not being able to dial in Extra Neg. Camber to reduce understeer. In the pursuit of hitting those corner apexes every time and allowing to go deeper into the corners with increased Traction and Braking response.
OR DAILY COMMUTE:
Not being able to resolve costly, premature excess edge wear. Because of altered height or varying loads, excess passenger side wear through high cambered roads, fitting wide profile tires or having no “ongoing” adjustment capability to compensate for curb knocks.
AT K-MAC WE SAW THE NEED THEREFORE AND MANUFACTURE FRONT CAMBER AND CASTER ALONG WITH REAR CAMBER (AND EXTRA TOE) KITS !
THEY’RE ALL “BOLT-ON”, NO SPECIAL TOOLS AND NO TIME CONSUMING NEED FOR ARM REMOVAL ! Unique patented design breakthrough also allows easily accessible precise single wrench adjustment - ULTIMATE direct on alignment rack UNDER LOAD.
SEE SPOILER RE K-MAC TOTAL SYSTEM
Spoiler
AMG C450/C43
FRONT SUSPENSION:
#503316-2J $380 - FRONT Upper ‘A’ Arm Camber and Caster adjuster kit. Replaces the inner bushings. For security peace of mind not welded fabricated arms but retaining the original OEM hi-strength forged alloy arms.
#503416K $480 Front Lower Arm Camber and Caster adjuster kit. Replaces the 4 lower arm (highest wearing bushings) Again retaining the original OEM high strength forged alloy arms.
#503416-1i $345 Same as above but Camber only (less cost then one hi-performance tire).
NOTE: #503416K and #503416-1i Lower Arm kits are far and away most popular. Provide up to 2 degrees extra Positive or Negative Camber (plus race days extra track width). More then enough to resolve most excess edge tire wear issues. Retain original hi-strength OEM arms. Plus without “time consuming” need to remove upper or lower control arms.
Above #503416K CASTER BUSHES also replace the OEM large soft rubber and are Monoball / Self aligning (this K-MAC design allowing arms to still travel through their required suspension arcs without binding). Dramatically improving brake and steering response.
REAR SUSPENSION:
#502226-1M $595 Upper Camber Arms. Including Extra TOE adjustment to compensate. Unlike other brands not soft extruded aluminum but hi-strength chromoly tube with long life performance bushings.
#502226K $480 Lower Arm Camber and Extra Toe adjustable bushes. Up to 2 degrees extra Positive or Negative Camber. Most popular kit - Using original hi-strength OEM arms. Same as K-MAC Lower Front bushes, replaces highest wearing, fit without time consuming arm removal or need for special tools !
NOTE: REAR UPPER ARMS VERSUS LOWER ARM ADJUSTMENT:
#502226K Lower Arm easier access to install and ULTIMATE alignment - precise single wrench direct on alignment rack UNDER LOAD. (No Upper Arm difficult access and trial and error adjustment).
Also upper arm adjustment reduces important clearance “Top of tire to outer fender” when adjusting to resolve premature inner edge tire wear !
#502628K $480 Uprated performance bushings for the ‘6’ rear multi link arms. Tauter response - Less rear end twitch, flex, loss of traction. Especially when applying power to lane change / overtake.
DHL Express Air $40 one kit ($20 each extra) Worldwide.
AUDI to VOLVO - K-MAC Experience Of Resolving OEM Suspension Shortcomings Since 1964 !
Nice topic! I tracked my C450 once, I found the traction control really intrusive. The only way to fully disable it on my 450 was to put it in dyno mode, but doing that also disabled ABS. TC doesn't kick in for you on track? It was on a sharp uphill corner that was most intrusive for me.
Nice topic! I tracked my C450 once, I found the traction control really intrusive. The only way to fully disable it on my 450 was to put it in dyno mode, but doing that also disabled ABS. TC doesn't kick in for you on track? It was on a sharp uphill corner that was most intrusive for me.
One of the few differences between the C43 and the C450 is the traction control. On the C450, off is really "Sport", and on the C43, they have on, Sport, and Off, so you can better dial out interference.
I'm still learning to be really smooth in my steering, brake, throttle inputs, so I use the traction control, stability control, etc. as a way to judge my driving. If I'm doing something poorly, the electronic nannies let me know. I'm sure if I could schedule more weekends, I'd get better and then be able to start turning stuff off.
Last edited by GermanCarShow; 05-23-2024 at 11:52 AM.
09-03-2023, 09:30 AM
