transferred

8-speed is pointless.

I'd rate them close but like this as the Audi is the only one anyone has driven and we know it's a great. The other isn't out while the 63 is a long way off.
1. RS4
2. M3
3. C63

C63 will be very powerful. Lexus doesn't have the heritage as a sporting brand so should just give up.

ProjectC55

You can doubt it ,but it is true! An how do you know how much the M3 weighs vs the C63?


AMG 6.3L V8
Cylinder arrangement
v8
Cylinder angle
90 degrees
Valves per cylinder
4
Displacement
6208
Bore/stroke
102.2/98.6
Dist. between cylinders
109mm
Compression ratio
11.3:1
Output
375kw/510hp@6800 rpm
Output per litre
60.4kw/82.1hp
Max torque
630nm@3200
Torque per litre
101.5 Nm
Maximum engine speed
7200 rpm
Weight (dry)
199kg
Power-to-weight ratio
1.88 kW/kg



M3 V8
4 litre V8
420 bhp / 8300 rpm
max 8400 rpm
400 Nm at 3900 rpm
340 Nm at 2000 rpm
comp 12:1
engine weight 202 kg


# 26 lb heavier than 335i engine!
# 84 lb lighter than M5 S85
# 15 kg less than the M3 E46 engine


The big 6.3L motor weighs 3 kg's less than BMW's 4.0l V8.

Bif powell

I've always wondered why the M3 doesn't get put up against the CLK - isn't that more it's class/type? Really the M3 shouldn't be in this group (4-door super sedans) but the RS4 should be I imagine.

ralleyone

My nephew just went for a spin in the new as yet unreleased m3 (best friend's dad owns several BMW dealerships and somehow got a hold of one) and said the handling has taken a step backward because the v8 is heavy up front. He was severely disappointed and is a BMW lover.

rhernand07

So with all that said, those that mean that a moded C55 will beat the new M3??

transferred

on a track...no way unless it's been modded for exclusive track use

dorikin_86

the new v8 is 35lbs lighter than the inline 6.

bmw's handling has taken a step backwards since they start packing in SO much weight into the E36. E30 M3 is still the best driver's car out of the M3's but don't get me started on the C55.....you havne't experiened front heavy until you've driven one of these =)

ProjectC55

I would not be suprised if this were possible.

ProjectC55

The front heavy thing with the M113 motors in the "c" and the "CLK's" is overrated. When it comes to the C36 and the C43 especially the straight six is heavier. The M113 motor is all aluminum and nowhere near as heavy as you think.

dorikin_86

that could be true...i haven't driven a C36 or C43 =)

I just wished car manufacturers would pursue power-to-weight ratio more than just MORE power because weight kills everything in a sports car/sedan.

Fifth Ring

Sums it up. Of course NONE of us have driven ANY of these cars, and it is all about personal preference. Drive them and buy the one you like best.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

BS. The V8 is lighter than the I6. Stop making stuff up. The E92 M3 employs multiple weight saving techniques.

m3_eater

You and ProjectC55 should get a room. Lighter engine does not mean lighter total car! The dimensions of the 3-series have grown with each successive generation, just as the competition have also grown fatter. More features, more weight. The E92 3-series weighs more than the E46, which weighs more than the E36, which weighs more than the E30. I am a HUGE BMW fan, always have been - but there is no way they are going to produce a 2700-lb 3-series again. We have to wait for the 135i to find a spiritual successor to the 2002 and E30.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Okay so every successive generation gets fatter (in this case we'll really have to wait and see), I'll agree with that, but the assertion that the V8 has made the car front-heavy is nothing short of total BS. First of all every ///M car is 50/50 balanced, and second of all this lump is even lighter than the previous engine. Like I said no one has even seen a production version of this car, and anyone who's taken a drive in the concept, as unlikely as it sounds to me, still doesn't know what the production version will hold.

E92 335i curb weight- 3593 pounds.
E46 M3 curb weight- 3415 pounds.

Hypothetically, and this is very hypothetical, with the weight savings of the engine and the CF roof, the E92 M3 should weigh VERY CLOSE to what the outgoing M3 weighs, with a huge power advantage.

ProjectC55

Hey Sunshine! I said that the 6.3L motor was actually lighter than the 4.0L V8 that BMW was putting in the new M3 and gave you proof because your assumption was WRONG! I never said anything else about the weight of these cars which would definitely be a factor. So stop trying to scratch someone's eye's out!

mbSLRwannabe

the torque advantage is HUGE for the c63, compared to the e92 m3. 443 ft/lbs compared to 295 ft/lbs... that's a huge difference.

foofighter

i find it funny that all the discussions of the competition...i havent come up on one that has the Audi RS4 as competition. it's kind of sad, it's such a capable car but the RS4 is the chubby kid that no one picks to be on their team only as a last resort.

Beltfed

What kind of car enthusiast are you? Not much of one with that attitude.

It is never too late for a car company to get into the performance game. Nobody has tested the IS-F yet, which has the 8spd autoshift and over 400hp (most likely around 420hp give or take).

Caddy was never a sporting company either and look at what they have been up to. The 09 CTS-V is rumored to be 500hp AWD and wouldn't be surprised if the # was over 500hp. Granted the last CTS-V wasn't the most polished vehicle, but it certainly held its own performance wise against the E46 M3 and S4.

Competition = Good for the enthusiast.

Carl Lassiter

My friend has an RS4 and it is an amazing vehicle. The C63 and E90 M3 will have to be very good to usurp it as class leader.

It may not win to many highway drags, but in the compact sector straightline performance has never been the be-all and end-all. The RS4 is supremely focused with 8-piston brakes, an 8,250 red line and 420ps from a NA 4.2 V8. It's chuckable and tracks like a Carrera and I doubt that will be the case with the Lexus which has failure written all over it.

Beltfed

How do you know it will be a failure?

Nobody has driven it yet, do you know winning lotto numbers in advance as well?

Carl Lassiter

I said "doubt" not "know", sunshine.

MikTrebla09

http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/d..._theresult.pdf

Beltfed

Its not the "doubt"....its the "has failure written all over it."

That's extreme language for a car that hasn't been tested yet. On paper, the car has the goods. Not to mention, its Lexus 1st stab at a dedicated performance model. So, its not like we can go by past models to judge what this might be like and what to expect.

Militant-Grunt

I think it really depends on the categories you guys are talking about

Track Vs 1/4 mile? BMW for sure for the track while benz will take the 1/4. Handling will always just be better on a BMW, especially an M3.

gixxer

I don't but but this time there will be both E90 and E92 M3's out.