08 C63 vs. 08 M3 vs. 08 IS-F
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From: OC, SoCal
08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
I'd rate them close but like this as the Audi is the only one anyone has driven and we know it's a great. The other isn't out while the 63 is a long way off.
1. RS4
2. M3
3. C63
C63 will be very powerful. Lexus doesn't have the heritage as a sporting brand so should just give up.
Last edited by transferred; Apr 25, 2007 at 09:39 PM.
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From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
I doubt that is true - but even if it is, the weight of the motor is only one of the factors in total running weight. The BMW is going to beat the other two in weight (and probably also power-to-weight ratio) hands down. The bar will be lifted for everyone, but don't expect any revelations. The three will stack up the same as the competitors do now.
AMG 6.3L V8
Cylinder arrangement
v8
Cylinder angle
90 degrees
Valves per cylinder
4
Displacement
6208
Bore/stroke
102.2/98.6
Dist. between cylinders
109mm
Compression ratio
11.3:1
Output
375kw/510hp@6800 rpm
Output per litre
60.4kw/82.1hp
Max torque
630nm@3200
Torque per litre
101.5 Nm
Maximum engine speed
7200 rpm
Weight (dry)
199kg
Power-to-weight ratio
1.88 kW/kg
M3 V8
4 litre V8
420 bhp / 8300 rpm
max 8400 rpm
400 Nm at 3900 rpm
340 Nm at 2000 rpm
comp 12:1
engine weight 202 kg
# 26 lb heavier than 335i engine!
# 84 lb lighter than M5 S85
# 15 kg less than the M3 E46 engine
The big 6.3L motor weighs 3 kg's less than BMW's 4.0l V8.
Last edited by ProjectC55; Apr 26, 2007 at 07:52 PM.
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From: Southern California
2002 C32 and 2009 Audi S5
My nephew just went for a spin in the new as yet unreleased m3 (best friend's dad owns several BMW dealerships and somehow got a hold of one) and said the handling has taken a step backward because the v8 is heavy up front. He was severely disappointed and is a BMW lover.
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From: OC, SoCal
08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
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From: Diamond Bar
2005 Renntech C class
My nephew just went for a spin in the new as yet unreleased m3 (best friend's dad owns several BMW dealerships and somehow got a hold of one) and said the handling has taken a step backward because the v8 is heavy up front. He was severely disappointed and is a BMW lover.
bmw's handling has taken a step backwards since they start packing in SO much weight into the E36. E30 M3 is still the best driver's car out of the M3's but don't get me started on the C55.....you havne't experiened front heavy until you've driven one of these =)
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C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
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From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
the new v8 is 35lbs lighter than the inline 6.
bmw's handling has taken a step backwards since they start packing in SO much weight into the E36. E30 M3 is still the best driver's car out of the M3's but don't get me started on the C55.....you havne't experiened front heavy until you've driven one of these =)
bmw's handling has taken a step backwards since they start packing in SO much weight into the E36. E30 M3 is still the best driver's car out of the M3's but don't get me started on the C55.....you havne't experiened front heavy until you've driven one of these =)
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From: Diamond Bar
2005 Renntech C class
that could be true...i haven't driven a C36 or C43 =)
I just wished car manufacturers would pursue power-to-weight ratio more than just MORE power because weight kills everything in a sports car/sedan.
I just wished car manufacturers would pursue power-to-weight ratio more than just MORE power because weight kills everything in a sports car/sedan.
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C32 AMG
I think it will the same old story, Mercedes will be the most powerful, fastest and easiest to live with everyday. The BMW will be the better handling, come with a manual trans and provide that connection that the Benz doesn't. The Lexus will be fast and all too isolated and totally lacking in "sport", but reliability survey worshipers who have a pulse will love it.
M
M
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From: Seattle
'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
My nephew just went for a spin in the new as yet unreleased m3 (best friend's dad owns several BMW dealerships and somehow got a hold of one) and said the handling has taken a step backward because the v8 is heavy up front. He was severely disappointed and is a BMW lover.
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You and ProjectC55 should get a room. Lighter engine does not mean lighter total car! The dimensions of the 3-series have grown with each successive generation, just as the competition have also grown fatter. More features, more weight. The E92 3-series weighs more than the E46, which weighs more than the E36, which weighs more than the E30. I am a HUGE BMW fan, always have been - but there is no way they are going to produce a 2700-lb 3-series again. We have to wait for the 135i to find a spiritual successor to the 2002 and E30.
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From: Seattle
'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
Okay so every successive generation gets fatter (in this case we'll really have to wait and see), I'll agree with that, but the assertion that the V8 has made the car front-heavy is nothing short of total BS. First of all every ///M car is 50/50 balanced, and second of all this lump is even lighter than the previous engine. Like I said no one has even seen a production version of this car, and anyone who's taken a drive in the concept, as unlikely as it sounds to me, still doesn't know what the production version will hold.
E92 335i curb weight- 3593 pounds.
E46 M3 curb weight- 3415 pounds.
Hypothetically, and this is very hypothetical, with the weight savings of the engine and the CF roof, the E92 M3 should weigh VERY CLOSE to what the outgoing M3 weighs, with a huge power advantage.
E92 335i curb weight- 3593 pounds.
E46 M3 curb weight- 3415 pounds.
Hypothetically, and this is very hypothetical, with the weight savings of the engine and the CF roof, the E92 M3 should weigh VERY CLOSE to what the outgoing M3 weighs, with a huge power advantage.
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From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
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i find it funny that all the discussions of the competition...i havent come up on one that has the Audi RS4 as competition. it's kind of sad, it's such a capable car but the RS4 is the chubby kid that no one picks to be on their team only as a last resort.
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From: NY
14 'E550
It is never too late for a car company to get into the performance game. Nobody has tested the IS-F yet, which has the 8spd autoshift and over 400hp (most likely around 420hp give or take).
Caddy was never a sporting company either and look at what they have been up to. The 09 CTS-V is rumored to be 500hp AWD and wouldn't be surprised if the # was over 500hp. Granted the last CTS-V wasn't the most polished vehicle, but it certainly held its own performance wise against the E46 M3 and S4.
Competition = Good for the enthusiast.
Last edited by Beltfed; Jul 4, 2007 at 02:29 PM.
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'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
It may not win to many highway drags, but in the compact sector straightline performance has never been the be-all and end-all. The RS4 is supremely focused with 8-piston brakes, an 8,250 red line and 420ps from a NA 4.2 V8. It's chuckable and tracks like a Carrera and I doubt that will be the case with the Lexus which has failure written all over it.
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From: NY
14 'E550
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'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
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From: Seoul / Boston
h
My friend has an RS4 and it is an amazing vehicle. The C63 and E90 M3 will have to be very good to usurp it as class leader.
It may not win to many highway drags, but in the compact sector straightline performance has never been the be-all and end-all. The RS4 is supremely focused with 8-piston brakes, an 8,250 red line and 420ps from a NA 4.2 V8. It's chuckable and tracks like a Carrera and I doubt that will be the case with the Lexus which has failure written all over it.
It may not win to many highway drags, but in the compact sector straightline performance has never been the be-all and end-all. The RS4 is supremely focused with 8-piston brakes, an 8,250 red line and 420ps from a NA 4.2 V8. It's chuckable and tracks like a Carrera and I doubt that will be the case with the Lexus which has failure written all over it.
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14 'E550
Its not the "doubt"....its the "has failure written all over it."
That's extreme language for a car that hasn't been tested yet. On paper, the car has the goods. Not to mention, its Lexus 1st stab at a dedicated performance model. So, its not like we can go by past models to judge what this might be like and what to expect.
That's extreme language for a car that hasn't been tested yet. On paper, the car has the goods. Not to mention, its Lexus 1st stab at a dedicated performance model. So, its not like we can go by past models to judge what this might be like and what to expect.
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From: New York City
95 Audi urS6 Quattro
I think it really depends on the categories you guys are talking about
Track Vs 1/4 mile? BMW for sure for the track while benz will take the 1/4. Handling will always just be better on a BMW, especially an M3.
Track Vs 1/4 mile? BMW for sure for the track while benz will take the 1/4. Handling will always just be better on a BMW, especially an M3.
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