I am probably not the first, and definitely not the last to leave the M camp as of late. But the way I see it, the boys in Munich made a strategic miscalculation in the new horsepower war and underestimated the enemy. I was never too crazy about the new M3 styling, but was ready to trade in the inline 6 for the new and 1st eight dropped into the 3.

This was until I became aware of the c63... Most of the posts regarding the c63 on the m3 forum bash it to hell, but there are a growing number of those not blinded by brand loyalty (like myself) who realize this c63 is going to eat the new M alive. There are several who speculate about lap times around the "ring" and how the new M will own the c63... However, most of us don't drive around the "ring" and hang our bragging rights around who can take who to the next stoplight, and who can take who down the straight stretch on the interstate. Unless I missed something, this new AMG will simply dominate the new M and will send plenty more like me over to this forum..

Not wanting to mess with the inevitable first model year problems, my money was dropped on the '09 reservation list.. Now for the long, long, long, wait.. Can't wait to read posts from those lucky enough to get their hands on one this spring!!!!!!

 

Welcome the the camp. I am glad to see someone that, as you stated, is not blinded by the brand loyalty. I don't envy your the wait. I figure, if I haven't put the money down, the wait shouldn't be as bad. Twisted logic, I know.

Anyway, welcome again.

 

I'm waiting for their dual clutch system to come out before I purchase this bad boy. I'm guessing that will be in '09.

 

Rumor has it Mercedes is dumping their 7 speed automatic and trying to find a partner to build an 8 speed dual clutch system.

What I'm really excited about is just numbers:
BMW plans to sell 80,000 M3s.
Lexus is making only 4500 IS-F's
I can't find any numbers on the C63

I do remember reading that at stock hp levels, the C63s' engine will be "unstressed" -- hello boost!

 

True, but the trans will most definitely be stressed. That is why the 5-speed is still in the 65 series cars.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigma7

I am probably not the first, and definitely not the last to leave the M camp as of late. But the way I see it, the boys in Munich made a strategic miscalculation in the new horsepower war and underestimated the enemy. I was never too crazy about the new M3 styling, but was ready to trade in the inline 6 for the new and 1st eight dropped into the 3. This was until I became aware of the c63... Most of the posts regarding the c63 on the m3 forum bash it to hell, but there are a growing number of those not blinded by brand loyalty (like myself) who realize this c63 is going to eat the new M alive. There are several who speculate about lap times around the "ring" and how the new M will own the c63... However, most of us don't drive around the "ring" and hang our bragging rights around who can take who to the next stoplight, and who can take who down the straight stretch on the interstate. Unless I missed something, this new AMG will simply dominate the new M and will send plenty more like me over to this forum..
Not wanting to mess with the inevitable first model year problems, my money was dropped on the '09 reservation list.. Now for the long, long, long, wait.. Can't wait to read posts from those lucky enough to get their hands on one this spring!!!!!!

Welcome aboard Sigma7. Most of us aren’t surprised with the fact that the C63 is bashed to hell on a daily basis at bimmer forums. But I don’t think any of us felt offended, especially with the kind of groundless single sentence bashing similar to:
“The M3 can take that piece of junk”,
“I would take the M3 every single time..no contest here”,
” It's really friggin' ugly, got a slushbox, has 4 doors, and weighs 3,800+lbs! I wouldn't look twice at that thing...”
“MB's looks boring to me...”
“too bad it sounds like *** and revs like ***”
“ew, that looks disgusting..... bye bye dorkcedes”
“yea.. it's a super fast Avalon.”etc etc.

We understand that most prepubescent teenagers don’t know what they’re talking about, they don’t mean what they say, and sometimes they have to say the opposite to validate their coolness. It’s must be tough for them to live in denial.

None of us knows whether this C63 will trump M3 on a racecar track or not. Although I’m pretty sure it will (or at least matches the M3), based on these facts: First, again, the C55 finished the same time as the E46 M3 at Nurburgring Nordschleife, therefore all of those nonsense about M3 owning Benz on the track is a questionable. Secondly, I’m sure every one knows about the vast improvement in handling via wider front track, steering, gearing as well as hp/tq. You see, unfortunately those are the only two trump cards they have, and MB is gaining on it, and they don’t like it.

Again, welcome aboard, but please don’t let those grade school kids follow you here.

 

I was just like you...C55 changed my view of Mercedes..
Cant wait for C63.

 

Welcome to the club! Get whatever you like and screw popular opinion. I miss my E55 every day, but I still enjoy driving my 335xi! I'm sure you'd like the C63 after seeing the C350 sport pkg in person today.

 

I was always under the impression that the 7 speed gearbox was designed to handle up to b/t 650-680Nm and the older 5 speeder could handle up to 1000-1100Nm. The reason Mercedes/AMG has gone to the 7 speed seems to be more for marketing sake. They found that the mass public doesn't understand torque as easily as they understand Hp. So by changing the engine design for more horsepower and sacrificing torque, they were also able to move to a 7 speeder (which sounds more advanced for marketing purposes, even though the 5 speeder would easily suffice). So increased HP and a "technologically advanced" 7 speed gearbox helps sell their cars against the likes of Audi RS and BMW M cars.

Now in relations to your comment, as the 7 speed gearbox of the C63 is the same as that in the S63, E63 etc ....and those cars produce more power; which their 7 speed gearbox is designed to handle; then a "detuned 63" engine in the C63, with same type gearbox will be far from being stressed.

I think the guys at AMG are trying to find a solution for faster gear changes and more sportiness and driver's involvement.... hence rumours of a dual clutch transmission being in the works. I think there is a video or magazine link somewhere on this site where the chief AMG engineer hinted at "an improved gearbox" for the C63 by the time the car is officially launched.

 

You can count me among those who are seeing the C63 as an alternative to the upcoming E92.

Though I've been a BMW fan for a long time, having owned many of them, I am really disappointed at how little torque the new M makes.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I don't care if it makes a bazillion horsepower at 8000+ RPM if it doesn't have some midrange punch - I still have to use it as a daily driver and am frankly getting a little tired of driving a car that I have to beat like a rented mule to get it to go fast.

 

I think you must be referring to this thread:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=172976



I've got to admit that I may have contributed a bit to the drama there, and am a little surprised by the near religious-nutjob zeal displayed by otherwise seemingly rational people over there.

I've got that thread bookmarked, and think it will be interesting to revisit it when the first direct comparisons are posted - I fully expect the C63 to not only win them, but be faster overall.

(However, I fully expect that thread will quietly disappear if that happens, as the most strident pro-//M nutcase in that thread is a mod there...)

 

I agree. I drove the M5 and my first impression was what's the big deal. Normal driving in traffic it was generic - not enough grunt to do anything. HP is good but some old fashioned V8 torque is better. My old 540 and last gen M5 were great lumbering around town, yet ready to go without a down shift. I don't like where BMW is going with their M's.

Yesterday my wife and I drove the new C350 and I was really surprised how small it was inside. Not enough headroom by a long shot and terrible seats. The radio screen (non-nav) pop-up console cover begs the question why? But it drove really well and looked great. Hopefully the C63 with AMG seats are better - like the E55/63 seats. We'll find out in the spring.

 

Hey jt2,

Welcome to the "dark side" and thank you for your un-biased and eloquent discussion on the M forum. I have read most of the posts on that thread and witnessed the immature blind brand loyalty first hand. Personally, I feel you have been treated unfairly by some long-time posters that refuse to understand and internalize the facts, as we know them. I say, "as we know them", because we have not had a true production car (new M3 vs. C63) head-to-head comparison to support anyones claims.

I understood your position warning the M crowd about the change in philosophy over at AMG. You do not come across as a BMW kool-aid drinker, just an educated M-guy that understands that competition makes for better things in life, including cars.

As an AMG owner, I love my car for the balance of comfort/daily drivablity and performance. If I did not need to carry clients and 3 other family members in my car, I might look at the M3 as my car. It's not about status, as so many of the kool-aid drinkers believe. It is about what I just stated.

 

I hear you loud and clear.

Most of our issues with AMG are the contrary. We have torque, but we lack the top end pull of the new generation of M cars (M5 and soon M3)

The C63 brings a nice balance of the two.

 

ditto...

prety much reflects most AMG owners.

We all could of owned a M car for the same price we paid for the AMG badge.

However our needs are more on the comfort and luxury side compared to the sporty and Edgy feeling on the M cars.

Sporty and Edgy are very good traits, but with 2 little boys and a wife that hates when I drive over 75, its hard to enjoy the car.

I predict:
M3 will still win on a road course, and tie the C63 to the 1/4 but at a lower trap speed.

However it probably will have an excellent 0-60 and 0-100 due to better gearing and the manual clutch dump on a high rpm.

The c63 will have no problem just being good all around, which is enough for me. I will be able to carry 4 adults and golf bags and have enough torque to keep up.

 

I had a deposit down on a E92 M3. But as the reviews started to come out, I just couldn't find myself being happy with that car. I tried to love it but with all the competition out, I couldn't justify buying it. I'd rather get a used M6, a new C63, etc.

 

I feel the same way that you guys do. I've been a lifelong M fan but the new m3 doesn't appeal to me at all aesthetically. On the other hand, I think the c63 is one of the best looking sedans to come out in a long time. Plus, as I need my next car to be my daily driver, the c63 fits the bill perfectly.

 

That's me! Coming from an '05 E46 to the C63. I hated the new E92 design from the get go, and the only thing that appeals to me now is the sedan option. I am pumped about the C63, but right now, if the E46 M3 had a 4 door option, I would probably keep the M3 forever. But, will wait and see how I like the C63 and I think that will be home for a while. I pick up in Stuttgart in October! Can't wait!

 

i must warn you....

once youre in, there is only one way out!!!

 

 

You just said the MAIN reason I jumped. I loved my 02 M3 and 01 M Roadster on the track, but daily driving left me a little cold. BMW's are really nice track cars, but I'll take my AMG for the other 363 days of the year

See yeah

 

+2 on torque, on top of the E92 design...

 

If anything they will move to the wet clutch system that they have in the SL63. It replaces the torque converter with a wet start up clutch. They're not going to build an 8 speed box when they've just come out with this 7 speed.

I was also looking at a new M3 but I chose the C63 as it was roomier, and since I am not going to be tracking the car, it is more practical as a daily driver. It is also cheaper than the M3 (in Canada anyway).

 

I am another person jumping the BMW ship over to Mercedes. I had the E46 M3 and the new M3 does not seem like much of an improvement in the HP/TQ department especially considering it has 8 cylinders now. My C63 is due to be delivered in August...CAN'T WAIT!!

 

I too had an order for an M3 coupe. I liked it very much but felt it was a bit lacking on torque, especially when I was trying to pull away from a V6 Altima, yet the Altima was still there. Very disappointing. I was waiting for DCT but after reading the recent Car&Driver.com road test online, I am glad I jumped the C63. I can't say every aspect is better than the M to me, but it fits my lifestyle better. The other component was increased exclusivity for $7K less money. I recently saw the M3 Convertible...beautiful!! but $77K without DCT. That is just CRAZY for what is essentially a tarted-up 3 series.