Fifth Gear: C63 AMG vs. M3
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Pretty interesting how on the track Tiff was really getting it sideways and sawing on the wheel where the other guy was being smooth. Either it was that much of a pig to stay at that speed v. the BMR or he was screwing around too much which he is known for-
Also if you're comparing track cars it would be the DTM v. the GTR versons of MB and BMW respectively-
Also if you're comparing track cars it would be the DTM v. the GTR versons of MB and BMW respectively-
Last edited by spr; Jan 30, 2008 at 03:45 PM.
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From: durban. south africa
02 W203 C32 AMG, 00 W202 AMG, 98 W202 C23K, 98 W202 3.0T, 97 W202 C23T, 93 W201 AMG
Sorry champ but I lost my ticket to fantasy land today. Such a car doesn't exist, comparing a tube framed race car to something that rolls off an assembly line is ridiculous. You're struggling, stop it. There are no plans for a C63 Black Series that I know of, but the M3 CSL is real and coming to a dealership near you.
AND STOP WITH THE 2 vs. 4 door argument!! The cars will weigh the same and perform the same! Sorry to disappoint, better luck next time, keep licking your wounds.
AND STOP WITH THE 2 vs. 4 door argument!! The cars will weigh the same and perform the same! Sorry to disappoint, better luck next time, keep licking your wounds.
er...cylinder head is it? its the "champ" here. better check your head gasket, i think its blown, cos you seem to have a miss-interpretation of what i was getting at. the DTM TRACK car was what i was referring to. hence the use of the words track tuned. i wasnt referring to suspension only. and if the csl is beemers answer to the dtm track car, which it could very well be given the lighweight components and removal of luxuries, then the beemer stands no chance. M = Mighty but AMG = Al-Mighty-G
road car vs road car, its a close call cos not all roads are designed as the fifth gear or top gear tracks.
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From: Seattle
'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
er...cylinder head is it? its the "champ" here. better check your head gasket, i think its blown, cos you seem to have a miss-interpretation of what i was getting at. the DTM TRACK car was what i was referring to. hence the use of the words track tuned. i wasnt referring to suspension only. and if the csl is beemers answer to the dtm track car, which it could very well be given the lighweight components and removal of luxuries, then the beemer stands no chance. M = Mighty but AMG = Al-Mighty-G
road car vs road car, its a close call cos not all roads are designed as the fifth gear or top gear tracks.
road car vs road car, its a close call cos not all roads are designed as the fifth gear or top gear tracks.
Here goes......
www.google.com
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C32 AMG
An M3 is the furthest thing from a track car. Most owners never track them, the brakes would never hold up for track use, and it still has a radio and AC and all of the other creature comforts, not to mention it's overweight. The suspension isn't TRACK TUNED, it's just adjustable. Just because it's a coupe doesn't mean it's a track car. As previously mentioned, the CSL will be the track version, and it will be a complete monster. Expect the 4-door to have exactly the same performance as well, so there goes that argument.
But as you note, a DTM is not a "track tuned" car. It is a ground-up, space frame, custom race vehicle with bodywork that looks like a stock vehicle. It is a meaningless comparison or claim. The M3 CSL is not even close to a DTM. It's just a lightened M3.
But, to bring some rationality to the argument, AMGs are equipped to be more comfortable and "cruiser" oriented. You can upgrade tires and suspension and likely match the performance of an M3. Many of us have upgraded suspension and tires on C32/C55s.
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From: Seattle
'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
I'd say the E36 and E46 (maybe) models fit into the model of "off the sales-floor track car" but certainly not this new E92 chassis. The car has gotten far too pudgy to be put into those terms and has moved ever so slightly upmarket to make room for the 1-series, the proposed M-version of which (or even the 135) would make an EXCELLENT track car because it retains the most important feature of a track car- light weight.
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'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
Not being smart just pointing out these superior track cars.
Last edited by Carl Lassiter; Jan 30, 2008 at 04:45 PM.
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'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
Modded doesn't really come into the equation as that will just add to the melee of views.
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From: Seattle
'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
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Are you blind? Or do you just like to stick words in people's mouths. Please point out where he says that the CSL is the CLOSEST thing to a track car that you can buy from A dealership floor. He clearly states that the best BIMMER to use on a track is the CSL.
Thread Starter
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G55, SLS, smart eq
Oh man, you take this crap way too serious.
Lighten up a bit.
Actually I have, more or less unintentially. Then again I was driving myself in my own SL55.
Lighten up a bit.
Actually I have, more or less unintentially. Then again I was driving myself in my own SL55.
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C32 AMG
To the gentleman who said that the M3 was not a track car, I noted that it was very much built to withstand track rigors.
To the gentleman who said that he would compare the M3 CSL to a C63 DTM car, I noted that the two cars are entirely different animals.
(I just hope this economic recession sends some of these new money characters back to the Honda/Subaru forums. It's hard to have a rational discussion.)
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From: L.A., CA
'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
I'll type slowly so you can understand me. My response was remarking on TWO different posts.
To the gentleman who said that the M3 was not a track car, I noted that it was very much built to withstand track rigors.
To the gentleman who said that he would compare the M3 CSL to a C63 DTM car, I noted that the two cars are entirely different animals.
(I just hope this economic recession sends some of these new money characters back to the Honda/Subaru forums. It's hard to have a rational discussion.)
To the gentleman who said that the M3 was not a track car, I noted that it was very much built to withstand track rigors.
To the gentleman who said that he would compare the M3 CSL to a C63 DTM car, I noted that the two cars are entirely different animals.
(I just hope this economic recession sends some of these new money characters back to the Honda/Subaru forums. It's hard to have a rational discussion.)
"E92ftw"- you've got to read more closely.
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From: Thick Ascending Limb
2017 BMW X5M DG/AB
As a blind man who loves to stick words in people's mouths I can't help but be amused at how uncanny your comments would have been if directed towards me. They were not so I'll move on.
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R35 GT-R, EvoX
This is a pretty pathetic argument. Its fact vs feeling with some of you guys.
Have they come out with Nurburgring times yet for the C63 and E92 M3? Not that the Nordschleife is the end-all be-all for car performance, but I definitely think it will put things into perspective.
Have they come out with Nurburgring times yet for the C63 and E92 M3? Not that the Nordschleife is the end-all be-all for car performance, but I definitely think it will put things into perspective.
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C32 AMG
This is a pretty pathetic argument. Its fact vs feeling with some of you guys.
Have they come out with Nurburgring times yet for the C63 and E92 M3? Not that the Nordschleife is the end-all be-all for car performance, but I definitely think it will put things into perspective.
Have they come out with Nurburgring times yet for the C63 and E92 M3? Not that the Nordschleife is the end-all be-all for car performance, but I definitely think it will put things into perspective.
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Mercedes Benz
I'd say the E36 and E46 (maybe) models fit into the model of "off the sales-floor track car" but certainly not this new E92 chassis. The car has gotten far too pudgy to be put into those terms and has moved ever so slightly upmarket to make room for the 1-series, the proposed M-version of which (or even the 135) would make an EXCELLENT track car because it retains the most important feature of a track car- light weight.
The E36 M3 was a pig stock and only was a great track car once it was stripped down and upgraded all around. I use a E36 for track use and its nothing like it was stock but it is an absolute BLAST. The E36 chassis is maybe the best chassis around for building a track car. But to say an E36 was a great track car because it was light is not exactly true.
The 135i was set to be a great car until i realized it is less than 200 lbs lighter than a 335i. At that weight I will take the big version of the car just because it offers more space. 100 pounds is a lot at 2400 lbs but at 3500 lbs who cares its still a pig right?
All that said, the M3 (E92 and E90) is hands down a better car in my mind than a C63. I went in a C63 recently and I wanted to die when I heard the motor and felt the seats. But seeing how terrible it does when pushed hard makes me realize its not what I was hoping for. I am a big MB fan but my passion for performance sedans has been moving towards BMW. The C63 did not slow down that transfer of passion like I figured it would.
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Mercedes Benz
I patiently await some solid figures as for lap times. It should be very interesting.
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R35 GT-R, EvoX
I just watched the vid...it seemed the driver of the C63 was going out of his way to drift the car while the M3 was shown to be nice and glued. Makes me wonder if BMW paid them off to drive like that...because seriously, its so obvious they were making the C63 go sideways on purpose.
But whatever the reason or the outcome of the endless debate (AMG vs M), that C63 put on one hell of a smoke show
. Can't wait to see one going sideways on the streets in person. Must be a sight to behold (and hear).
But whatever the reason or the outcome of the endless debate (AMG vs M), that C63 put on one hell of a smoke show
. Can't wait to see one going sideways on the streets in person. Must be a sight to behold (and hear).
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From: California
CLS55
great video. im sure with some adjustments and driver practice, that 63 would be as precise as the M3. great video. The 63 does have a longer wheelbase so is easier to drift, and is heavier. both great cars, ill take 1 of each please!
On the same lines, the CLK black will blow the pants off the M6...
On the same lines, the CLK black will blow the pants off the M6...
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997.2 GT3, E90 M3
Tiff and Jason are two very accomplished racing drivers! Google them. I think they both know how to drive road cars very well without needing any practice. I have seen many such comparison and track times comparison. It's clear to me that the M3 is a much faster track car especially a track that requires handling finesse and not just high power. But heck, that would not be a reason for me buying a C63!
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2006 CLK350
there is a lot of talk about coupe vs sedan being unfair. i think i've read in another post that they should compare a "c" class coupe to a M3. well whether people like it or not, the C class coupe is the CLK. If they put a CLK63 (not BS) against that M3, would it do better?
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C63, SLK55
there is a lot of talk about coupe vs sedan being unfair. i think i've read in another post that they should compare a "c" class coupe to a M3. well whether people like it or not, the C class coupe is the CLK. If they put a CLK63 (not BS) against that M3, would it do better?
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'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
They share the same chassis and that’s it, the CLK is NOT a C class coupe! 2 completely different cars. For all it matters, I think the CLK63 would do worse than the C in this test on a track due to the heavier weight. The CLK Black Series is a whole different story but it would only be fair to compare it to the CSL M3.
