Karma_Hunden

I have discovered that Breaking the Car in will make it run good but normal. If you start to push it hard from 200 miles and up, the car will run faster (factory freak) but probably will be a little propense to damage. My friend has done that with his cars and they are all factory freaks. He pulls stock for stock on the same other cars. He has a G37S and a MazdaSpeed6. I personally am following his step by not breaking the car in BS.

Schiznick

How do you know? Next you will be telling us that you can "feel" a difference of 5 HP.

My .02 is this:

We are all intitled to believe what we believe. Some have very strong opinions on this one. For those that have strong opinions, it's on you.

For those who don't, be careful what you read and be smart when you form yours.

All I would love to see is some real data. No more of this my friend said this or my buddy does this and his cars are fast.

Everyone thinks they have the fastest cars and they have the secret sauce.

I prefered the path of learning how to drive so that if I am missing 5 hp from following the factory defined break in procedure I can make ut up and then some

Cheers!

Glock Guru

However, every engine is different. Because they are hand built by different builders each engine will make more or less horsepower and torque and "loosen up" sooner than others.

I would say "OVER ALL" , break in the motor the way AMG-Mec says to.

If the owners manual does not give specific information from an AMG prospective not "Joe Blow" at the MB dealer thats a drift racer, then you need to call or email AMG direct and get your questions answered.

I would think AMG would have a technical director for the USA market or if need be contact AMG HQ direct to get your answers.

Hell, just get the guys name that built it off the engine cover and email him direct. I would think he would have a company email address. Who knows, he may love to know who his "baby's" are doing out in the world.

Who better to know how to break in an engine, ask the man who built or re-built it.


Just my $.02

-Troy

Schiznick

Every engine really isn't different. While they are hand assembled, what we were told when we visited AMG and had a tour of the engine assembly area, the engines are for all practical purposes identical. The process that they use to assemble these engines does not leave any room for interpretation. The tolerances of these motors are incredible and I don't believe that they really vary as much as one might think.

We had a dyno daya a couple of years ago in Atlanta where we ran multiple E55's on the same day and the spead of HP varied by less than 15 HP across many different cars of varried mileage.

I think most of the differences that we see from dyno runs are because we typically compare pulls from different dynos on different days with different conditions. Even run to run as the ECU adjusts timing you will see changes of HP of 3 to 4 in some cases.

You should have a sticker on your windshield that tells you the break in procedures from AMG.

oldgixxer

I agree w you 100%....it's not really fair comparing a (typical)inline 4 bike engine that revs over 13k rpm&has a very high piston speed to a V-8 that redlines at 7200rpm w a relatively low piston speed.
On my dragbike engines I heat cycle them on the dyno a few times and then make pulls to redline to seat the rings&valves.This method produces excellent power;but at a loss to longevity IMO.I noticed that one of my engines failed a leak-down test significantly sooner then when I broke it in 2 prior back to back seasons putting some street miles on it.

The entire issue of "glazing the rings/cylinder walls" has been reduced tremendously over the past 20 or so years due to different honing techniques as well as Nikasil coatings,etc in the bores.I think it's pretty much a non-issue on our beloved AMG's.The factory needs(and has good reason) to lean towards the "safe" procedure when it gives break-in instructions.

Everyone has their own "personal" favorite way to break-in an engine. After owning 30-40 bikes I have my own as well when it comes to motorcycles.Motoman's method has been the start of 1000's of debates(sometimes nasty,lol)in the motorcycle community for years now

bluejae

for the people who have followed the break in your car like you would drive it normally, did you wait until the first dealer oil change, or did you change it before?

MHP

Hard break-ins (as stated above to seat the rings asap) have never failed me, even with regard to modern 4v engines (not just bikes). AMG engineers are not race engine builders, they are constrained by the same standards/liabilities as any OEM manufacturer. What they tell customers to do is HIGHLY monitored for the reasons mentioned above.
As I stated in another thread, hard break-ins aren't great for the rest of the driveline, but we're not making that much power in stock form anyway.
I plan on changing my engine oil to Motul 5-40 at 600 miles and diff fluid at 1000 miles.
I should hit 500 miles on the way to the track tonight.

gravedgr

Do you think the AMG engineers wrote those break in procedures? They did not. The AMG/MB lawyers wrote those procedures in an attempt to mitigate engine abuse (i.e. warranty claims) as a cost savings measure. Any of you who think you should baby the engine or follow the guidelines by the book - I challenge you to find an automotive manufacturer engineer, or professional engine builder (such as a tuner or race team), who agrees with this method. You are very unlikey to find one, whereas you will find many who disagree and say that as long as oil temperatures are at operating levels, you can drive the car hard from day one.

When I bought my 911, I had it at redline on the way home from the dealer. Since then, I have regularly driven it hard without abuse and never before oil is at 200 degrees. Consequently, I have yet to see another stock 911 dyno with more hp on this forum [EDIT: Sorry, I was thinking I was on the MB forum @ 6speedonline.com - you may search there]. Feel free to search the 997 forum for "stock + dyno" and try to prove me wrong. I don't think anyone has dyno'd within 5-10 rwhp. Random luck on my part? I doubt it. Want to try again? Take some stock C63's who have been broken in by the book and dyno them. Then take some who have been broken in by varying loads, RPMs, and speeds and dyno them. I'd be willing to stake $50 the second group will average higher.

peet

There's a seriously fundamental flaw with the hard break-in procedure on retail cars... the guy who wrote that process builds his engines. He pounds on them fresh off a bench. Our cars come with 10-40 (or more) miles already on them. The initial break-in is done so to speak. The rest is just gentle polishing.

Though I won't baby my vehicles, I will stick to the 60-70% throttle and try stay off M mode. It'll only be another two weeks and I'm clear to have fun - small price to pay.

AMG Dictator

When I bought my 911, I had it at redline on the way home from the dealer. Since then, I have regularly driven it hard without abuse and never before oil is at 200 degrees. Consequently, I have yet to see another stock 911 dyno with more hp on this forum [EDIT: Sorry, I was thinking I was on the MB forum @ 6speedonline.com - you may search there]. Feel free to search the 997 forum for "stock + dyno" and try to prove me wrong. I don't think anyone has dyno'd within 5-10 rwhp. Random luck on my part? I doubt it. Want to try again? Take some stock C63's who have been broken in by the book and dyno them. Then take some who have been broken in by varying loads, RPMs, and speeds and dyno them. I'd be willing to stake $50 the second group will average higher.[/QUOTE]

I tend to side with AMG on this one. I would follow their program. It doesn't say not to vary engine speed it just says limit kickdown and don't go above a certain RPM or speed. As it has been beaten to death over and over again, it is not just the engine that need to be broken in. It is all of the other drivetrain components as well. Again, no one has ever said not to vary load RPM or speed.

What I find so funny is how passionate the group of "drive it like you stole it" people are. Every turn it is some claim about how their cars are quicker or how if you talk to this builder or this race team that they would never tell you to do it this way. THEY always say to beat it from day one and it will be a strong engine..... Well, THIS is not a race engine.

So here is my question, WHY? Can someone give me a technical reason why? How long does it take to seat the rings?

If you watch the engine building videos on the AMG engine building process or visit AMG, you will see that they dry run every AMG engine at a minimum for a final QA check. The engine is run at RPM and compression is checked at each cylinder. Doesn't this tell us that the rings are seated properly?

If this is the case then the thought process that running the **** out of the engine (1970's thinking and technology) to seat the rings is a bit flawed. These are seriously high tech engines with special coatings on pistons and cylinder walls.

It was also mentioned above, and they are right, that all of our cars get to us with more than 5 miles on them. If the engine is going to perform worse by not running it hard then the damage is done by the time we get the car.

So where is the advantage of beating the engine after the oil is warm? Does it seat the engine seals better? Does it help head gaskets? Does it flow more air? Does it train the computer to give you an extra 20 HP?

My school of thought is that it may not really be the engine that needs a proper break in at all but all those other technical components that make up the drive train. Having done my share of differential and trans repairs, I have less of an issue seeing how these need a bit of time to "mesch the gears....."

Other than my race cars, I have always taken it easy and have had few mechanical problems with my AMG cars.

Just my humble opinion and a few questions.

MHP

To answer a few of your questions:

It takes all of a few minutes/miles to seat the rings with conventional dino oil. What you have to remember is that the quicker the rings are seated the less leakdown you'll end up with over the longrun, which makes for a more efficient and powerful engine overall.
Quite a few modern engines come with synthetic oil from the factory these days. In such cases seating the rings does take more time, a couple hundred miles tops.
I don't disagree with your statements about the rest of the driveline needing a real break-in however when it comes to an engine, it's either going to work properly or it's not. Beating it from the first time a motor turns over is not detrimental in any way shape or form.

AMG Dictator

Just asking.... but how can it take a couple of hundred miles to fully seat the rings?

How can an engine pass a leak down test if the rings are not seated fully?

Why would it be better to seat the rings at high RPM vs a slower RPM? Is it the cylinder walls, is it the rings?

I guess I need to take an engine engineering class. It would be fun to know exactly that happens when the rings seat against the walls.

bizguy4u

Break it in according to AMG manual.

The chip in the car gives the dealership all the parameter history of the engine so if you have been "***** to the wall" and it breakes then its your hassle dealing with the warranty.

Stay under 3,000 rpm first 1,000 miles with frequent upshifts & downshifts.

They also dont advocate Sport Mode during this period.

After that you are free to use the power range.

Change the oil at 3,000 whether it needs it or not and ask for the old filter. Just to be on the safe side..

bluejae

if mercedes/amg tests their engines at all before delivery... then they probably got pretty close to the limits of the car. i wouldn't be surprised if they go over 3000rpm or even red line it during the tests. does it say in the manual that your warranty will be void if you hit a certain rpm during the first 1000? don't they have to prove that the engine malfunctioned because of driving it hard in the beginning?

bizguy4u

No they dont.

The chip is calibrated to the car, VIN etc

They have a worksheet on the engine before install.

You are not just bedding in just the engine, its the gearbox, drivetrain, brakes etc...

I think you will find going up and down through the gears to 3000 rpm makes great sense as you are not loading parts that are not quite seated.

Take the factory tour and talk to the people there!

The tolerances are very tight all round!

Why screw around?

MHP

Synthetic oil is significantly more slippery than dino oil. If you want to seat the rings asap use SAE non detergent 5w-30 with no coolant ( so the motor heats up asap which allows the rings to seat very quickly). Since our motors come with synthetic it simply takes longer.

Does anyone have any idea what actual numbers would cause a pass/fail from the factory? My guess is they don't expect 100% sealing out the factory door.

The faster the rings and the surface of the cylinder walls heat up (metals expand), the more quickly the rings will seat.

Thanks
Andy