Break-in period
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2011 GLK350, 2010 ML350, 2008 C63 AMG
Break-in period
So what should be the appropriate break-in period?
Follow what MB says or drive it relatively hard between 4 and 5k with no redlining.
Follow what MB says or drive it relatively hard between 4 and 5k with no redlining.
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Re Post
Re post;
Just my two cents, but my first MOD on my C55 was to remove that "Break-in" window sticker!!
Mercedes and AMG program the ECU to be very forgiving with high tolerence for average drivers. ie: a non enthusiast that might not follow service schedules, might use low grade fuel and otherwise not take good care of the vehicle. This is why companies like Kleemann and Renntech can squeeze extra HP by chipping alone.
This also relates to the easy break-in outlined in the user manual. this breaks in the motor in a way that if the service schedule is not followed, poor grade fuel used or general abuse, there are pre existing tolerences in place to protect the motor.
"Spare the rod and spoil the child"
If you are an enthusiast, drive as you would normally right from the start. The first 40 Klm are the most important. Hard, steady acceleration in second and third gears to a high rev (5 to 6K RPM repeatedly) is critical to seat the piston rings solidly.
It is VERY important to let the engine warm to full operating temp and then run the first few minutes at moderate loads as to let the tranny fluid temp to catch up as well. The tranny needs to seat and seal over the first 1000 miles/1600 km. This will produce a smooth, responsive and very tight engine that will stay that way. Still follow the recommended scheduled first oil/filter change and away you go.....
I'm not saying to go racing the first weekend but if you drive hard and smoothly through the gears right out of the gate you can expect to maintain top torque and HP numbers for the life of the engine. Follow the "recommended" break in and expect a 10 to 15 HP drop and for sure, lots of "cylinder blow by" in the years to come.
I have been breaking in engines (both high performance and stock) this way for years and its never let me down.
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Last edited by NORTH 44 C63; 05-07-2008 at 10:42 PM.
#4
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Topic has been beaten to death on this forum....
Re post;
Just my two cents, but my first MOD on my C55 was to remove that "Break-in" window sticker!!
Mercedes and AMG program the ECU to be very forgiving with high tolerence for average drivers. ie: a non enthusiast that might not follow service schedules, might use low grade fuel and otherwise not take good care of the vehicle. This is why companies like Kleemann and Renntech can squeeze extra HP by chipping alone.
This also relates to the easy break-in outlined in the user manual. this breaks in the motor in a way that if the service schedule is not followed, poor grade fuel used or general abuse, there are pre existing tolerences in place to protect the motor.
"Spare the rod and spoil the child"
If you are an enthusiast, drive as you would normally right from the start. The first 40 Klm are the most important. Hard, steady acceleration in second and third gears to a high rev (5 to 6K RPM repeatedly) is critical to seat the piston rings solidly.
It is VERY important to let the engine warm to full operating temp and then run the first few minutes at moderate loads as to let the tranny fluid temp to catch up as well. The tranny needs to seat and seal over the first 1000 miles/1600 km. This will produce a smooth, responsive and very tight engine that will stay that way. Still follow the recommended scheduled first oil/filter change and away you go.....
I'm not saying to go racing the first weekend but if you drive hard and smoothly through the gears right out of the gate you can expect to maintain top torque and HP numbers for the life of the engine. Follow the "recommended" break in and expect a 10 to 15 HP drop and for sure, lots of "cylinder blow by" in the years to come.
I have been breaking in engines (both high performance and stock) this way for years and its never let me down.
__________________
Re post;
Just my two cents, but my first MOD on my C55 was to remove that "Break-in" window sticker!!
Mercedes and AMG program the ECU to be very forgiving with high tolerence for average drivers. ie: a non enthusiast that might not follow service schedules, might use low grade fuel and otherwise not take good care of the vehicle. This is why companies like Kleemann and Renntech can squeeze extra HP by chipping alone.
This also relates to the easy break-in outlined in the user manual. this breaks in the motor in a way that if the service schedule is not followed, poor grade fuel used or general abuse, there are pre existing tolerences in place to protect the motor.
"Spare the rod and spoil the child"
If you are an enthusiast, drive as you would normally right from the start. The first 40 Klm are the most important. Hard, steady acceleration in second and third gears to a high rev (5 to 6K RPM repeatedly) is critical to seat the piston rings solidly.
It is VERY important to let the engine warm to full operating temp and then run the first few minutes at moderate loads as to let the tranny fluid temp to catch up as well. The tranny needs to seat and seal over the first 1000 miles/1600 km. This will produce a smooth, responsive and very tight engine that will stay that way. Still follow the recommended scheduled first oil/filter change and away you go.....
I'm not saying to go racing the first weekend but if you drive hard and smoothly through the gears right out of the gate you can expect to maintain top torque and HP numbers for the life of the engine. Follow the "recommended" break in and expect a 10 to 15 HP drop and for sure, lots of "cylinder blow by" in the years to come.
I have been breaking in engines (both high performance and stock) this way for years and its never let me down.
__________________
Isn't this a throw back to the 60's and 70's? The technology on the block walls of the 6.3 is a bit more advanced than my old DZ302 right?
As you said, break in is for more than just engines. I say follow their directions.
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I follow the break in on all my cars and have yet to have one dyno low or run slow at the drag strip.
Isn't this a throw back to the 60's and 70's? The technology on the block walls of the 6.3 is a bit more advanced than my old DZ302 right?
As you said, break in is for more than just engines. I say follow their directions.
Isn't this a throw back to the 60's and 70's? The technology on the block walls of the 6.3 is a bit more advanced than my old DZ302 right?
As you said, break in is for more than just engines. I say follow their directions.
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2011 GLK350, 2010 ML350, 2008 C63 AMG
Topic has been beaten to death on this forum....
Re post;
Just my two cents, but my first MOD on my C55 was to remove that "Break-in" window sticker!!
Mercedes and AMG program the ECU to be very forgiving with high tolerence for average drivers. ie: a non enthusiast that might not follow service schedules, might use low grade fuel and otherwise not take good care of the vehicle. This is why companies like Kleemann and Renntech can squeeze extra HP by chipping alone.
This also relates to the easy break-in outlined in the user manual. this breaks in the motor in a way that if the service schedule is not followed, poor grade fuel used or general abuse, there are pre existing tolerences in place to protect the motor.
"Spare the rod and spoil the child"
If you are an enthusiast, drive as you would normally right from the start. The first 40 Klm are the most important. Hard, steady acceleration in second and third gears to a high rev (5 to 6K RPM repeatedly) is critical to seat the piston rings solidly.
It is VERY important to let the engine warm to full operating temp and then run the first few minutes at moderate loads as to let the tranny fluid temp to catch up as well. The tranny needs to seat and seal over the first 1000 miles/1600 km. This will produce a smooth, responsive and very tight engine that will stay that way. Still follow the recommended scheduled first oil/filter change and away you go.....
I'm not saying to go racing the first weekend but if you drive hard and smoothly through the gears right out of the gate you can expect to maintain top torque and HP numbers for the life of the engine. Follow the "recommended" break in and expect a 10 to 15 HP drop and for sure, lots of "cylinder blow by" in the years to come.
I have been breaking in engines (both high performance and stock) this way for years and its never let me down.
__________________
Re post;
Just my two cents, but my first MOD on my C55 was to remove that "Break-in" window sticker!!
Mercedes and AMG program the ECU to be very forgiving with high tolerence for average drivers. ie: a non enthusiast that might not follow service schedules, might use low grade fuel and otherwise not take good care of the vehicle. This is why companies like Kleemann and Renntech can squeeze extra HP by chipping alone.
This also relates to the easy break-in outlined in the user manual. this breaks in the motor in a way that if the service schedule is not followed, poor grade fuel used or general abuse, there are pre existing tolerences in place to protect the motor.
"Spare the rod and spoil the child"
If you are an enthusiast, drive as you would normally right from the start. The first 40 Klm are the most important. Hard, steady acceleration in second and third gears to a high rev (5 to 6K RPM repeatedly) is critical to seat the piston rings solidly.
It is VERY important to let the engine warm to full operating temp and then run the first few minutes at moderate loads as to let the tranny fluid temp to catch up as well. The tranny needs to seat and seal over the first 1000 miles/1600 km. This will produce a smooth, responsive and very tight engine that will stay that way. Still follow the recommended scheduled first oil/filter change and away you go.....
I'm not saying to go racing the first weekend but if you drive hard and smoothly through the gears right out of the gate you can expect to maintain top torque and HP numbers for the life of the engine. Follow the "recommended" break in and expect a 10 to 15 HP drop and for sure, lots of "cylinder blow by" in the years to come.
I have been breaking in engines (both high performance and stock) this way for years and its never let me down.
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M5 Jahre Edition S, KTM 1290R Super Duke ,C63 AMG 2011[Gone],A45 AMG 2013, MV Agusta 750 [2000]
I run mine it at 4000,to5000 rpm for the first 1100miles , Oil consuption so far 1litreLets hope this is just a beding in process, as 1 gallon of oil costs $93.
Will keep you all posted on the next 100miles & oil consumption, I'm sure MB will put their hands in their pockets if oil consuption increases.Lets hope its note one of the Friday made cars that will develp major problems ,fingers crossed
Will keep you all posted on the next 100miles & oil consumption, I'm sure MB will put their hands in their pockets if oil consuption increases.Lets hope its note one of the Friday made cars that will develp major problems ,fingers crossed
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2018 GLC300 4Matic; 2005 C55; 2003 360 Modena
Unless someone with the credentials of the AMG engineering team, AMG engine builder, AMG research and development team or any other AMG anything credential can post a statement on this thread (or any other) as to why one would NOT follow the very instructions that those who do have those credentials took the time to create and advise the new owner to follow... I would stick with the recommendations by AMG.
#12
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Unless someone with the credentials of the AMG engineering team, AMG engine builder, AMG research and development team or any other AMG anything credential can post a statement on this thread (or any other) as to why one would NOT follow the very instructions that those who do have those credentials took the time to create and advise the new owner to follow... I would stick with the recommendations by AMG.
#13
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Unless someone with the credentials of the AMG engineering team, AMG engine builder, AMG research and development team or any other AMG anything credential can post a statement on this thread (or any other) as to why one would NOT follow the very instructions that those who do have those credentials took the time to create and advise the new owner to follow... I would stick with the recommendations by AMG.
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08 e90 m3/09 c63/ 06 cls55 /
I've always wondered about this 'hard' break in method. A lot of anecdotal "oh yeah it really works I've done it for years" but I have yet to see a proper empirical test that would convince me away from the recommended break-in.
That being said does anyone actually have concrete evidence to prove the validity of this method? I'd be willing to give it a try on my next car if someone can produce a valid study that proves its advantages over the usual break-in methods.
That being said does anyone actually have concrete evidence to prove the validity of this method? I'd be willing to give it a try on my next car if someone can produce a valid study that proves its advantages over the usual break-in methods.
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I realize this is a controversial topic and some may not trust this method with out a blessing form a higher power. Its not for everyone.
All I can say is that I have used this exact method for many engines over the years (and yes, the method has changed somewhat as engines have become more sophisticated) All without issue and have produced tight, reliable top end performing motors that burn little or no oil.
The last engine was my 2005 C55 (M113.5.5). The next one will be my new C63 (M156) when it arrives in September.
The beauty of living where we do is that you can pretty much do what you want. Take it or leave it.
I can't stop hearing that little old Swami I met in '76 in the Valley of Ladakh saying:
"You can climb the tree of life, step out on a branch, but you will Never experience flight unless you jump"
I for one jumped and have never looked back.
Again....just my 2 cents
All I can say is that I have used this exact method for many engines over the years (and yes, the method has changed somewhat as engines have become more sophisticated) All without issue and have produced tight, reliable top end performing motors that burn little or no oil.
The last engine was my 2005 C55 (M113.5.5). The next one will be my new C63 (M156) when it arrives in September.
The beauty of living where we do is that you can pretty much do what you want. Take it or leave it.
I can't stop hearing that little old Swami I met in '76 in the Valley of Ladakh saying:
"You can climb the tree of life, step out on a branch, but you will Never experience flight unless you jump"
I for one jumped and have never looked back.
Again....just my 2 cents
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2011 GLK350, 2010 ML350, 2008 C63 AMG
That website (http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm) seems to talk mostly on motorcylcle engines so does it apply to car engines?
I think I'll probably talk to my dealership's head mechanic and shop forum to see what they recommend. Does anyone know what the break-in process is for the SLR? I wonder if it would be the same thing.
I think I'll probably talk to my dealership's head mechanic and shop forum to see what they recommend. Does anyone know what the break-in process is for the SLR? I wonder if it would be the same thing.
Last edited by gsrjc; 05-08-2008 at 04:47 PM.
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2001 Ford Lightning/2003 Mustang Cobra
Topic has been beaten to death on this forum....
Re post;
Just my two cents, but my first MOD on my C55 was to remove that "Break-in" window sticker!!
Mercedes and AMG program the ECU to be very forgiving with high tolerence for average drivers. ie: a non enthusiast that might not follow service schedules, might use low grade fuel and otherwise not take good care of the vehicle. This is why companies like Kleemann and Renntech can squeeze extra HP by chipping alone.
This also relates to the easy break-in outlined in the user manual. this breaks in the motor in a way that if the service schedule is not followed, poor grade fuel used or general abuse, there are pre existing tolerences in place to protect the motor.
"Spare the rod and spoil the child"
If you are an enthusiast, drive as you would normally right from the start. The first 40 Klm are the most important. Hard, steady acceleration in second and third gears to a high rev (5 to 6K RPM repeatedly) is critical to seat the piston rings solidly.
It is VERY important to let the engine warm to full operating temp and then run the first few minutes at moderate loads as to let the tranny fluid temp to catch up as well. The tranny needs to seat and seal over the first 1000 miles/1600 km. This will produce a smooth, responsive and very tight engine that will stay that way. Still follow the recommended scheduled first oil/filter change and away you go.....
I'm not saying to go racing the first weekend but if you drive hard and smoothly through the gears right out of the gate you can expect to maintain top torque and HP numbers for the life of the engine. Follow the "recommended" break in and expect a 10 to 15 HP drop and for sure, lots of "cylinder blow by" in the years to come.
I have been breaking in engines (both high performance and stock) this way for years and its never let me down.
__________________
Re post;
Just my two cents, but my first MOD on my C55 was to remove that "Break-in" window sticker!!
Mercedes and AMG program the ECU to be very forgiving with high tolerence for average drivers. ie: a non enthusiast that might not follow service schedules, might use low grade fuel and otherwise not take good care of the vehicle. This is why companies like Kleemann and Renntech can squeeze extra HP by chipping alone.
This also relates to the easy break-in outlined in the user manual. this breaks in the motor in a way that if the service schedule is not followed, poor grade fuel used or general abuse, there are pre existing tolerences in place to protect the motor.
"Spare the rod and spoil the child"
If you are an enthusiast, drive as you would normally right from the start. The first 40 Klm are the most important. Hard, steady acceleration in second and third gears to a high rev (5 to 6K RPM repeatedly) is critical to seat the piston rings solidly.
It is VERY important to let the engine warm to full operating temp and then run the first few minutes at moderate loads as to let the tranny fluid temp to catch up as well. The tranny needs to seat and seal over the first 1000 miles/1600 km. This will produce a smooth, responsive and very tight engine that will stay that way. Still follow the recommended scheduled first oil/filter change and away you go.....
I'm not saying to go racing the first weekend but if you drive hard and smoothly through the gears right out of the gate you can expect to maintain top torque and HP numbers for the life of the engine. Follow the "recommended" break in and expect a 10 to 15 HP drop and for sure, lots of "cylinder blow by" in the years to come.
I have been breaking in engines (both high performance and stock) this way for years and its never let me down.
__________________
Drive hard from when you buy it and it will remain that way, take it easy on the car and expect to lose power over if you had driven it hard from the start.
I'm not saying go out and be stupid, but sprinted good hard driving from the get go is the way to go. The only reason car manufacturers have these break-in policies is so that the customer does not go out and grenade his new motor within a week of owning it. It would cost the dealer a lot of money. Another key as mentioned from Barry is always be sure you are at operating temps, beating on a car not at operating temps is one of the worst things you could do!
We build motors at my shop, and right after we are done building a project car it goes right on the dyno. We don't go ***** out but we definitely put it to the test.
#19
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Dude, lose power? Can you back that up. I call major BS, if that were true, then the manufacturers are all making us have engines that eventually will be lower on power than advertised? BS.
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In my experience and opinion I would want to eliminate that possibility, along with the possibility of carbon build up, and not to mention your ECU learns driving habits. Granted all it is looking at is Data(numbers) but it is always learning and compensating.
But if you feel more comfortable taking it easy rather than driving it hard, then go ahead. I'm not trying to tell you how to break in your motor.
As far as advertised power, you are going to make your advertised HP give or take a few HP regardless of how you break it in. Just some are usually stronger than others. Not to mention all the numbers you see out there in the magazines are usually from Demo cars who I guarantee were not broken in as per the manufacturers guidelines.
Last edited by Derek@DRI; 05-11-2008 at 04:39 PM.
#21
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Why would AMG, who knows something about performance engines, clearly instruct you to break in the engine if it is counter-productive? They just haven't figured it out yet?
I can understand the reasons for break-in: rings and seals aren't sealing, clearances are tight so lubrication is not optimal yet, frictional heating will be higher so you need to avoid glazing surfaces, etc.
I don't understand any logical reason that "beat the hell out it immediately" would be beneficial. If high-reving and high-power output will do something good to, say, the pistons, why won't it do that same thing to them in 1,000 miles? Being "sensible" for the first 1,000 miles ought to leave the engine's parts pretty much like they were day 1 (only lubricating properly), so why would it be too late to "teach" your engine who's boss?
I can understand the reasons for break-in: rings and seals aren't sealing, clearances are tight so lubrication is not optimal yet, frictional heating will be higher so you need to avoid glazing surfaces, etc.
I don't understand any logical reason that "beat the hell out it immediately" would be beneficial. If high-reving and high-power output will do something good to, say, the pistons, why won't it do that same thing to them in 1,000 miles? Being "sensible" for the first 1,000 miles ought to leave the engine's parts pretty much like they were day 1 (only lubricating properly), so why would it be too late to "teach" your engine who's boss?
#22
Sustained RPM's for long periods of time seem to reak the most havoc on new motors/drivetrains. If op temps are in line and you accelerate hard but keep off the redline you should be fine. I friend of mind owns a spped shop and is a huge AMG fan and his advice was to drive the car with the above mentioned limitations for about 1k miles. Keep the tach under 5k and forget you even have cruise control. If on the highway keep the RPM's moving.
Once you get there "teach your engine who's boss?" LOL
Once you get there "teach your engine who's boss?" LOL
#23
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'05 C55(sold)'05 E55(sold)'06 911C4S(sold)'06 ML350 '06 CLS55(sold),buncha slo bikes
I follow AMG's procedure "loosely",I don't baby it per se nor do I beat the snot out of it.Heat cycles are whats important on a new engine.
Check out my slips on Dragtimes.com,you will see I'm clearly ahead mph wise compared to the other 63's.
Break-in is very important,don't fall into the mindset that you need to drive it like you stole it from day one,thats just old-school thinking imo.
Check out my slips on Dragtimes.com,you will see I'm clearly ahead mph wise compared to the other 63's.
Break-in is very important,don't fall into the mindset that you need to drive it like you stole it from day one,thats just old-school thinking imo.
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05 E55, R33 GTR, R33 GTS-t
just had a read of motomans process, it sounds very logical! interesting to see different pistons and their condition relating the the different processes.
There just doesnt seem to be any reason id call significant for the baby-it technique. Sounds like the issue here is not the logic behind the process, more so just having the ***** to go against what the factory tells you to do with your expensive new engine!
I personally "attempted" to break mine in gently, but as i bought it from a parallel importer i got to test drive it first, and of course i had to boot it to check the performance
On another note, i was talking to a dyno operator who is going to run-in/tune my newly built GTR(33) motor and he told me what sounded like motomans stuff, that the rings wont take long to bed in under load from the dyno, then they would get to completing the tune, followed by which i could drop it in the car and just go for it.
There just doesnt seem to be any reason id call significant for the baby-it technique. Sounds like the issue here is not the logic behind the process, more so just having the ***** to go against what the factory tells you to do with your expensive new engine!
I personally "attempted" to break mine in gently, but as i bought it from a parallel importer i got to test drive it first, and of course i had to boot it to check the performance
On another note, i was talking to a dyno operator who is going to run-in/tune my newly built GTR(33) motor and he told me what sounded like motomans stuff, that the rings wont take long to bed in under load from the dyno, then they would get to completing the tune, followed by which i could drop it in the car and just go for it.
#25
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just had a read of motomans process, it sounds very logical! interesting to see different pistons and their condition relating the the different processes.
There just doesnt seem to be any reason id call significant for the baby-it technique. Sounds like the issue here is not the logic behind the process, more so just having the ***** to go against what the factory tells you to do with your expensive new engine!
I personally "attempted" to break mine in gently, but as i bought it from a parallel importer i got to test drive it first, and of course i had to boot it to check the performance
On another note, i was talking to a dyno operator who is going to run-in/tune my newly built GTR(33) motor and he told me what sounded like motomans stuff, that the rings wont take long to bed in under load from the dyno, then they would get to completing the tune, followed by which i could drop it in the car and just go for it.
There just doesnt seem to be any reason id call significant for the baby-it technique. Sounds like the issue here is not the logic behind the process, more so just having the ***** to go against what the factory tells you to do with your expensive new engine!
I personally "attempted" to break mine in gently, but as i bought it from a parallel importer i got to test drive it first, and of course i had to boot it to check the performance
On another note, i was talking to a dyno operator who is going to run-in/tune my newly built GTR(33) motor and he told me what sounded like motomans stuff, that the rings wont take long to bed in under load from the dyno, then they would get to completing the tune, followed by which i could drop it in the car and just go for it.
How ofter do you rebuild your race car engines?
Here is my race car break in procedure:
Assemble engine
Warm up to operating temp
1 to 2 laps to shake down at moderate throttle
Check for problems, leaks.....
Run ***** out for race
Rebuild every two to three races or as required
It is really not the same as a street car.
My real issue here is that this debate is always riddled with I think and I feel. I wish someone would do a test where they compare break in procedures and put this to rest.