MHP

We are less than a week away from official objective test results (dyno/track/video) from our ECU/TCU tuning for 63/65 AMGs. We've finalized our calibrations, and standard package pricing so I figured it was time to post an update. First since a good number of potential customers have been asking, YES we can and have enabled rev matched/throttle blipped downshifts in both 7 and 5 speed vehicles.
We have decided to only offer complete driveline tuning for 63 variants (both ECU and TCU) we will not be selling ECU/TCU tunes seperately as we originally planned. This is due to the fact that every ECU/TCU combo we tune is custom flashed for the vehicle in question (mods included) to work in perfect harmony. We will however tune a TCM from a AMG 55/65 and 600s only if you are running a stock ECU. Please contact us for pricing.
What advantages will you see with our driveline tuning vs. stock or even other aftermarket ECU only tunes? We can make more power than other tuners, without hurting the driveline, because the two control units are working together, not against each other. Additionally, we don't want to run someone else's ECU tune with our TCU tune because the results won't be optimal and we won't put our name on anything but the best. Our customers can expect consistant shifts (all gears including 1-2), raised or stock shift points, rev matched downshifts/no load throttle blipping, extra stall speed, reduced or eliminated launch/shift torque management (your choice), quicker/firmer shifts (you choose the level from 1-10), significantly reduced adaptive learning, substantially quicker downshifts, finely tuned A/F and timing tables (including both part throttle and WOT) and razor sharp throttle response. We marry the driveline components so they work together, as they should have from the factory. There is simply no comparison to a stock tune equipped vehicle, the difference in performance and all around drivability is simply enormous.
Stage II tuning entails even more comprehensive modification for an additional fee. Please call, PM, or email for more details pertaining to your specific application.

Here's how stage I pricing will breakdown for the different models:

C63: $5000.00, Full Stage I (+Filters, Thermalnators): $5250 shipped.

E/CLS/CLK63 (inc. BS): $6000.00, Full Stage I (+Filters, Thermalnators): $6250 shipped.

S/SL/CL65: $7500.00, Full Stage I (+Filters, Thermalnators): $7750.00 shipped.

E/SL/S/CLS55: $6000.00, Full Stage I (+Filters, Thermalnators): $6250.00 shipped.

600s: $6000.00, Full Stage I (+Filters, Thermalnators): $6250.00 shipped.

We have an incredible amount of R&D time in our tuning, and the results will speak for themselves LOUD and CLEAR. Please sit back and form your own opinion of our products as the results roll in. Again as I've said prior, we think that 90% of our stage I customers will not need any further modification to their vehicles, they will be more than happy with just driveline tuning.

Thanks and please feel free to contact me with any questions, concerns, and/or comments.

Finally we may offer a one time Group Purchase for a select number of each model variant we currently tune for. Maybe 3-5 of each. Price will be $500 under list for all tunes. I'll start taking names next week after we have some data.

Andrew Cluck
Modern Horsepower LLC
614 940 9523
andrew@modernhorsepower.com

MACHC5

Sorry Andrew,

But at those proposed prices You're making almost every other tuner look like a great deal.

That is unless you can double the horsepower and performance they deliver.

Just my thoughts,
Jim

BerBer63

Wasn't MHP ECU Tune 1495? or am I confusing this with another....

MHP

Just wait for the track/dyno results and drivability commentary. Stage I tuning from MHP will be by far the best bang for the buck mod available for these cars. No other tuner can even come close to controlling the amount of varibles we do. If I'm wrong, please feel free to grill me to death.

MHP

That's pricing for a Kleeman ECU only tune.

bigbodybeeenz

I'm excited to see the results. At least this guy has a C63 to tinker with. Most tuners here haven't even touched the car.

MHP

If there's a Kleeman/Brabus/RennTech, etc tuned C63 available to run me at a dragstrip around OH I'd be glad to meet up and make some passes. Same goes for a dyno comparison though obviously I'd much rather hit a track up.

CynCarvin32

my question is what background do you have in this field and in tuning Mercedes Benz cars?

You threw out some massive pricing and for that money I would for sure go to RENNtech well before a tuner I know nothing about. At least that firm is headed by a former high ranking AMG engineer who knows the product and has close contact with the factory.

It has taken larger firms years to get working software for these cars but I dont see that same time frame here. I hope you really do have all the features you say as that would be great but I have a hard time believing that you offer such nice upgrades so quickly.

MHP

I could honestly spend a half hour replying to this question as I'm sure many others are asking themselves the same thing. Though the bottom line is if you go to Renntech you will receive an inferior product (we know this because we've gone over Renntech ECU flashes, and others, and they are nowhere near as complete, in depth, or capable as our flashes). Consider the fact that we don't pry chips off boards then resolder them in archaic fashion, we flash directly through the control units themselves. Obviously we don't follow others paths, we blaze our own out of the box trails, which may give you an idea as to how we've made so much progress so quickly. Additionally, we're good at what we do.
I realize there will be a great amount of disbelief initially which is why we chose objective testers with credibility. When they post their results all your questions will be answered via the best possible means--objective third party track/dyno results as well as subjective drivability commentary.
All I ask is that you wait for the results to come in.

Thank You!

BerBer63

In this thread -
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204/258052-mhp-tcm-tuning.html

You say its 1600 for Stage I TCU, so the other 3900 is for +ECU combined?

Does this include new replacement ECU/TCU units as well, so we can take them out before MB service?

CynCarvin32

I dont think RENNtech is prying apart ECU's these days......

You might have some pretty old software there.

Fantasm

So you can do this on an SL55 as well?

Glock Guru

All sounds good, we will see, only time will truly tell performance and reliability. good luck.

-

MHP

That was preiminary pricing (if you would've ordered then we would've honored the pricing) this is production pricing. I can understand it's higher than what some consumers would've liked but again the price reflects the large amount of time it takes us to change the OEM code. What you really pay for when it comes to tuning is knowledge, again, there is no question in our minds we have by far the most powerful, comprehensive, and refined tunes on the market.

MHP

Again we don't pry apart ECU/TCUs, but you'd be surprised who does.

LOL, actually we have the only hardware in the world that can do everything listed in the first post. Renntech can't even come close to manipulating code like we can. Ask them if they can even tune a 7A TCU, or add rev matched downshifts to a 5A. They can't btw.

MHP

Yes, at this point we can tune everything but the MCT cars. If demand warrants it we can spend time on that as well.

MHP

Thank you sir, and glad to see you made it through the weather.

CynCarvin32

Im quite skeptical and your very confident attitude can either be a blessing or the weakest link. I dont think that massive firms with years of experience have overlooked tuning on this level only to leave it to a firm that has not been here before. Play with me here but I am a skeptic until I see something.

I always look at tuners who come out slinging mud as people trying to make up for a lack of ability. You dont see Kleemann and RENNtech out here throwing mud at people because they dont have the time and dont need to. When you start trying to say the are prying apart ECU's you look very ignorant as I have at there with many people at RENNtech tuning cars on the dyno. If you want to be taken seriously you need to be confident but not overly cocky. You are setting up for disaster if you dont.

I think these are all items that can be adjusted via software but what I dont think is that a small company with little to no prior experience can get this right while MB, a firm who spends millions in R&D each day, simply cant. Changing these shift points will likely lead to added stress, the car over revving on WOT shifts, and general drive line damage. These safety nets were designed to prolong vehicle life and taking them out and just letting it all run wild might not be a good plan. Lets see a MHP car at 150k miles. I dont think the tranny and tq converter will be original.

The reality is that these modded cars currently make MASSIVE amounts of power and these cars only last because they are tuned to preserve and not destroy. Remove the things keeping it in 1 piece might not work well. Now VRP might remove the limiters and thats a risk but they dont start messing with shift speeds and shift points. If you do that things could start falling apart very quickly.

James@ACG

Andrew,

I hope you dont get offended that I've replied in your tread, please do not take this as a stab at your company. But I just wanted to let you know that RENNtech does not prys chips off the board and resolders then back on as you've implied. I can tell you first hand, that is not how the flash is conducted.

I wish you the best of luck, and hope for a great result as I'm sure many of our customers would love to have a TCU upgrade.


Actual, Hartmut, the president of RENNtech purchased a C63 months ago to build products off of, RENNtech is not one to R&D on customers vehicles.

James

MHP

James, no worries, although I have said I don't think Renntech tunes are the greatest, the pry off/resolder comment wasn't directed toward you. The tuners that do so know who they are.

Thanks and you as well. We may offer TCU upgrades to supercharged V8 and turbo V12 apps but all 63 offerings will be complete driveline tuning.

Thanks
Andy

gravedgr

Andy,

One word: wow.

When you were talking ECU + TCU, I think we were all thinking ~$3k or so since the average "value" price for an ECU tune seems to be around $1500. Given that yours is nearly 4 x that much, can you produce 4 x the result of those value tunes? Lets take a couple of examples (I know you've already done the math here):

1. RENNtech offers 60 whp (350 > 410, I'm guessing they use a Mustang dyno given the conservative baseline) for $3495. You'd need to offer 90-100 whp to be roughly equivalent in value. https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...=255693&page=2
   
2. Kleeman offers 55-60 whp for $1495, and 90 whp for $3995. There's obviously a curve here that gets more expensive after the basic ECU tune, but comparitive to the ECU+headers (90 whp) you'd need to offer ~115-125 whp for your price. https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204/259037-kleemann-info-c63.html

Can you give us an expectation of the range you're hoping to see on the dyno, or gains at the track? I'll be honest, the "extras" you list are great so long as they are that - extra (i.e. free) - as I doubt anyone would want to pay for them. So as you know, you're going to be judged on a hp/$ number and the "we can also do X" will be ignored.

I'm still waiting to see the final results, but I think you may have priced me and a large number of other folks who want a boost - but not a bunch of other tweaks padding the price.

MHP

That's absolutely fine, I want you to be skeptical. Doubt confirms belief.

I am NOT slinging mud, I'm stating facts. Our tuning is superior and that's backed by fact and will be shown by objective 3rd party results. I think you need to look into who uses what software to tune, because a LOT of tuners out there are pulling chips.

You think you're right but I know you're wrong--just playful banter. It's not software, it's hardware, and MB tunes to avoid driveline warranty claims, liability, etc. We're not going to blow your motor or tranny up, but we don't have OEM constraints holding us back either. LOL, I'd like to see any tuned car making a ton of power on the original driveline at 150k miles. I think we both know nothing lasts forever at 1000HP.
As for changing shift points adding stress, you can't simply throw out a blanket statement like that. Adding 200rpm to a shift point of a stock longblock 6.2 isn't going to do anything, especially considering you'll be generating less heat in the trans from quicker shifts. Now overspinning a TT V12 is a different story (why we don't add rpm to them).

Again, you're not thinking outside the box with us. Your knowledge is based off the tuning currently available on the market where the TCU isn't brought up to speed on what the ECU is doing, much less married to it. We can make more power, more safely than other tuners because of the linked controllers.

We know what we're doing, and we not only tune Mercedes but Bentley's (we'll be in CA and OR next week tuning over ten of them), BMWs, Mini's, VWs, in addition to Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc.

Again, I both understand and appreciate your skepticism, and all I ask in return is for you to wait a few days and base your judgement on some objective results. Aside from that your main issue with our tuning (in this thread anyway) seems to be your disbelief that a smaller enterprise can compete with larger entities. I'm here to tell you that we can not only compete but dominate them. Yes I am confident, though I wouldn't go so far as cocky, simply because I know what we can do. In time you will as well. As I said before, if I'm wrong, by all means you have my permission rake me over the coals.

Thanks
Andy

MHP

I wish the math was that simple. The reality is it takes a significant amount of time to tune not only the tranny side of the equation but to get both engine and trans controllers to work together in harmony--which is the real magic in our tuning. TCU tuning + ECU marriage takes time, which equates to $.

No, that's a DynoJet, and yes our preliminary numbers have already far exceeded that. I won't post prelim results but I will get final numbers for you no later than mon/tues.

Can you post a Dynojet dynograph of the 90rwhp gain for $3995?

I have no doubt at all that if I raced a Kleeman header/ECU C63 with my ECU/TCU only C63 I would clean it's clock. Let's try and find one in the area and I'll do everything I can to make the race happen.
What you're not seeing on the dyno is the everyday drivability and increases in torque that we give vs anyone else. Driving a stock car vs. a MHP driveline tuned version is night and day, the difference is essentially indescribable.
I haven't even seen a torque curve from a Kleeman tuned 6.2, at least Renntech posted tq numbers.

If I don't run 11s@120 next Wed I'll be pissed. You also wouldn't believe how many "please add rev matched downshift" requests I've gotten from those that don't have it from the factory.

Honestly, it's my opinion that you won't need anything more than just our driveline tuning to be completely satisfied with the performance of your C63.

I posted over in the 211 forum that after the objective testers report back, and I post my own data/vids/slips/graphs, we'll be doing a one time group purchase on driveline tuning. Pricing will be discounted significantly, but only for a predetermined number of customers.

gravedgr

Nope - just quoting someone else. The only dyno I've seen for ECU+Headers is this one showing +90 crank (not wheel) hp.



Indescribable is the right word - thats the problem with anything beyond measureable numbers. You may be 100% correct, but it will be tough to convince anyone who can't drive your test mule.

I'll give you that one.

Depending on the GB discount, I may be interested. I'm obviously nervous about betting my $65k car on someone who doesn't (yet) have an established reputation with the brand. It will be my DD/kid hauler, so breaking down on the way home one night is not an option. You're obviously very confident, but I've yet to see a small business owner who didn't believe he could make the sun rise in west when it came to his own capabilities. I don't doubt you'll have some impressive results, but I'm also interested in reading your warranty information.

I forgot to mention - because I'm conservative in my mod choices based on bang/buck & reliability, most of the mods I've done have been cosmetic and/or handling (i.e. non-warranty affecting, or easy to remove/undo). My last 4 cars were 2 911s, an M3, and a MINI and only the MINI got performance mods (smaller S/C pulley, plugs/wires, CAI). Its easy enough to replace $25k car or its motor, but not a $65k AMG.

MHP

[QUOTE=gravedgr;3050841]Nope - just quoting someone else. The only dyno I've seen for ECU+Headers is this one showing +90 crank (not wheel) hp.



Yeah, I saw that graph too. I put no stock in engine dyno graphs as you never see the same numbers (even factoring in DT loss) on a chassis dyno. I'll have to reserve judgement until I see a SAE corrected DJ graph. My offer to run one still stands though.

I absolutely agree. However once enough customers arrive at the same conclusion it will be impossible to deny.


I'll give you that hardcore racers don't care about the blips, but it's crazy how many people do lol.


FWIW, we also tune W12 Bentley's which cost several times as much as our C63s, same goes for Ford GTs, Z06s, Vipers, etc.
The warranty issue is a dicey subject for many reasons. Don't get me wrong, we stand behind everything we sell regardless of make, brand, or product. However the level of coverage depends on the exact tune in question. If you come to me asking for 1000rwtq out of a sprayed TT V12, no way in hell will I cover your trans when it blows--that's simply asking too much and I will tell said customer that upfront before accepting any funds and taking on the job. However if you're talking about stock longblock tuning, you're covered. It will be a case by case basis basically.

We will also require all customers to sign a non disclosure agreement stating that they will not allow (in much better legalize that I can type) any other tuner or interested party to examine or read the code that we alter in the ECU/TCUs. We will enforce any breach of this contract swiftly and surely in order to protect our considerable investments.

Finally, I think you'll find the initial GP pricing to be more than fair. I'll get those figures up next week after the results are posted.

Thanks!

Andy