evosport and Powerchip Stage 1 C63 ECU Tune and Development
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From: Central New Jersey
CLK63 Black, E350 Wagon, Supercharged Denali, Lotus Elise, Tesla Model 3 Dual-Motor.
Brad,
It sounds like (2) drivers couldn't stay on track and went into the grass & dirt a few times and (1) driver stayed on course...
It sounds like (2) drivers couldn't stay on track and went into the grass & dirt a few times and (1) driver stayed on course...
Well it is easy. About 6 years ago, we took apart 3 race BMW motors that had very little mileage (one 5 hours and one 15 hours) and both looked like the cyl walls were bead blasted. Both had K&N filters. Another motor of the same build with another brand had no cyl wall damage.
Upon further examiniation, it was found that when K&N makes their filters, they FOLD the pleats as opposed to round them. In fact, this was why a lead engineer left K&N and started AFE - just to have ROUNDED edges. When you fold them, they will not filter to the same level any longer.
It is for this reason that the only pleated gauze filters that we use are BMC, Green or AFE.
Just because you have not had a problem does not mean it is not a potential problem, remember that.
Would be interested in the test, but the reason that we do not use K&N has nothing to do with HP, but with reliability and safety for the power plant (see above).
thanks
brad
Upon further examiniation, it was found that when K&N makes their filters, they FOLD the pleats as opposed to round them. In fact, this was why a lead engineer left K&N and started AFE - just to have ROUNDED edges. When you fold them, they will not filter to the same level any longer.
It is for this reason that the only pleated gauze filters that we use are BMC, Green or AFE.
Just because you have not had a problem does not mean it is not a potential problem, remember that.
Would be interested in the test, but the reason that we do not use K&N has nothing to do with HP, but with reliability and safety for the power plant (see above).
thanks
brad
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From: Scottsdale (aka The Surface of the Sun)
Nope, I wish it was something that simple. None of the cars were off track. We were at a dusty course though, and there was much dirt in the air.
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Sorry if this is posted somewhere else, but I could not find an obvious answer. Would this (or any of the other) ECU tunes affect or void the MB Factory Warranty?
Would not be a good day to have something like a transmission issue, take it to dealer, then get the "you're on your own b/c of the ECU tune" song.
BTW, $25 per HP is pretty good pricing.
Thanks in advance.
Would not be a good day to have something like a transmission issue, take it to dealer, then get the "you're on your own b/c of the ECU tune" song.
BTW, $25 per HP is pretty good pricing.
Thanks in advance.
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From: PA
S600, GL450, GLC 43
Well it is easy. About 6 years ago, we took apart 3 race BMW motors that had very little mileage (one 5 hours and one 15 hours) and both looked like the cyl walls were bead blasted. Both had K&N filters. Another motor of the same build with another brand had no cyl wall damage.
Upon further examiniation, it was found that when K&N makes their filters, they FOLD the pleats as opposed to round them. In fact, this was why a lead engineer left K&N and started AFE - just to have ROUNDED edges. When you fold them, they will not filter to the same level any longer.
It is for this reason that the only pleated gauze filters that we use are BMC, Green or AFE.
Just because you have not had a problem does not mean it is not a potential problem, remember that.
Would be interested in the test, but the reason that we do not use K&N has nothing to do with HP, but with reliability and safety for the power plant (see above).
thanks
brad
Upon further examiniation, it was found that when K&N makes their filters, they FOLD the pleats as opposed to round them. In fact, this was why a lead engineer left K&N and started AFE - just to have ROUNDED edges. When you fold them, they will not filter to the same level any longer.
It is for this reason that the only pleated gauze filters that we use are BMC, Green or AFE.
Just because you have not had a problem does not mean it is not a potential problem, remember that.
Would be interested in the test, but the reason that we do not use K&N has nothing to do with HP, but with reliability and safety for the power plant (see above).
thanks
brad
I would like to know what type of housing the K/N's were on those BMW's? I can not/will not believe it was the filter allowing that much dirt through that caused your cylinder wall damage. I would be more inclined to believe it was a E46 engine that hand some of BMW's lovely sand left in them from the manufacturing plant my friend. You know that one that BMW gave everybody a free 100,000 mile warranty on because of THEIR mistake at the plant.
In my 24 years of K/N use, both on street and racing, I have NEVER seen or heard about a SINGLE problem. And yes this includes that BS about MAF's, which the car above had. Well it sophisis to say that we disagree on yet another issue my friend.
See yeah
PS: Again, I do not nor have I ever had any vested issues with K/N other that one COMPLETLY satisfied customer
Last edited by MRAMG1; Nov 6, 2008 at 08:52 AM.
MBWorld Founder
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From: Scottsdale (aka The Surface of the Sun)
I am glad to hear that you have not had problems. There are many e46 m3 S54 engines out there that never spun bearings too. That does not mean that the engine was not problematic. We deal over a hundreds race cars/track cars a year and most likely pull from a greater pool of data then one car.
You cannot argue with the folded vs. rolled edges, it is not subjective but fact. Google it, you will see more info for sure.
BTW, the engines in question were M50 and m52 (e36 M3) motors, not S54.
Again, I am very happy you have not had any issues. If you like that brand, feel free to continue using it. I did not go after that brand, I was simply replying as to why we opt for other brands. That is the great thing about the free market, people are free to buy and do what they want.
This thread is really not about arguing over filters.
Thanks
Brad
You cannot argue with the folded vs. rolled edges, it is not subjective but fact. Google it, you will see more info for sure.
BTW, the engines in question were M50 and m52 (e36 M3) motors, not S54.
Again, I am very happy you have not had any issues. If you like that brand, feel free to continue using it. I did not go after that brand, I was simply replying as to why we opt for other brands. That is the great thing about the free market, people are free to buy and do what they want.
This thread is really not about arguing over filters.
Thanks
Brad
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From: PA
S600, GL450, GLC 43
MBWorld Founder
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,599
Likes: 7
From: Scottsdale (aka The Surface of the Sun)
Sorry if this is posted somewhere else, but I could not find an obvious answer. Would this (or any of the other) ECU tunes affect or void the MB Factory Warranty?
Would not be a good day to have something like a transmission issue, take it to dealer, then get the "you're on your own b/c of the ECU tune" song.
BTW, $25 per HP is pretty good pricing.
Thanks in advance.
Would not be a good day to have something like a transmission issue, take it to dealer, then get the "you're on your own b/c of the ECU tune" song.
BTW, $25 per HP is pretty good pricing.
Thanks in advance.
There are many factors that go into this:
- Dealer: Each dealer is an independent business, not owned by MBZ USA. So some dealers are much better when dealing with aftermarket mods then others. Try to find a dealer that is friendly. Best bet is to talk to the tuner you buy from and see if they have a referral. We sell to a number of dealers across the nation so that might help.
- Law: there is a law on the federal books (Magnasson-Moss) that states that the factory or a dealer cannot void in part or whole your warranty unless the modification in question reasonably caused the problem at hand. So the law is on your side, you just need to know this terminology sometimes when dealing with the dealerships.
- Products: Best bet is to buy products that are engineered well and work with the factory systems. One great thing about our software tunes is that they are invisible to the dealer, so they will have no way to know that your car has them!
Hope this helps!
Thanks
brad
MBWorld Founder
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From: Scottsdale (aka The Surface of the Sun)
That is the POINT and the REASON that we started this site!
Thanks for the nice words!
Brad
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I guess I was thinking of the suggestion from another to say "don't write to ECU" or something like that, so as not to lose the ECU Tune. Well, I figured that would be a dead giveaway; and opportunity for someone to deny some warranty claim. Also, without disclosing it, I would always wonder if I go in for warranty work if they would do an ECU update, but not tell me. Of course, you can probably do the butt dyno after getting the car back, but you know how the mind plays tricks and you might wonder if they flashed the ECU or not for a bit.... would there be any way at all for us to tell?
Thanks.
MBWorld Founder
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From: Scottsdale (aka The Surface of the Sun)
There is no way to know for sure. But the two things that I look for are driving feel and also read the invoice from the dealer. If they flashed the DME, it *should* be written there (not all dealers are as good with paperwork, but it should).
thanks
brad
thanks
brad
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Pacific NW
AMG GT-R
Any updates on the Long Tube Headers for the C63? Are these still in the works? ETA? What will your price point be for these? I've been waiting for these to be released before doing anything ECU wise.
Also, have you completed the Stage 2 tune you mentioned in your first post?
Thanks.
Also, have you completed the Stage 2 tune you mentioned in your first post?
Thanks.
MBWorld Founder
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Scottsdale (aka The Surface of the Sun)
The update on the LT for the 63 is that we are 99% not making them.
The fitment from chassis to chassis is quite different. In that a BS header will not fit a C63, etc.
We are about 1-2 weeks from releasing a proper x-pipe mid section though!
S2 tuning is done.
thanks
brad
The fitment from chassis to chassis is quite different. In that a BS header will not fit a C63, etc.
We are about 1-2 weeks from releasing a proper x-pipe mid section though!
S2 tuning is done.
thanks
brad
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LET C32 2002
Keep your ignorant posts to my not writing something and leaving a 
to PMs not on the board where everyone can see your ignorance
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Tucson, AZ
C63 AMG
I am not trying to poke on the wound but what do you guys think when someone tried your product and make no gains:https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...e-results.html
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From: Scottsdale (aka The Surface of the Sun)
I think that there is much more to that story than meets the eye. We have never had a car not make any gain. It is true that sometimes some cars need a tweak (each car is slightly different), but no gain is hard to believe.
Further, Powerchip has a 14 day $ back performance guarantee, so if it was true, than that user did not have $2K down the drain as he wrote, as he could have easily gotten his money back.
Now, realizing that this was a year ago, it is possible that the gains to be had then were not the same as now. A lot has happened in a year.
Even more than that however, please look at the CLK63 Black Series threads and see all of the cars that evosport/powerchip has flashed with amazing gains. Powerchip was the first on the market with this, and we have been more than satisfied with the results.
I don't know the details for that E63, as he was not an evosport customer, but I do know that our customers are happy. I also know that with ANY tuner, you will find stories of how the software did not work - and we will never know the details or motivations of those posters. Some are legit for sure, some are certainly suspect.
thanks
Brad
Further, Powerchip has a 14 day $ back performance guarantee, so if it was true, than that user did not have $2K down the drain as he wrote, as he could have easily gotten his money back.
Now, realizing that this was a year ago, it is possible that the gains to be had then were not the same as now. A lot has happened in a year.
Even more than that however, please look at the CLK63 Black Series threads and see all of the cars that evosport/powerchip has flashed with amazing gains. Powerchip was the first on the market with this, and we have been more than satisfied with the results.
I don't know the details for that E63, as he was not an evosport customer, but I do know that our customers are happy. I also know that with ANY tuner, you will find stories of how the software did not work - and we will never know the details or motivations of those posters. Some are legit for sure, some are certainly suspect.
thanks
Brad
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potential C63 purchaser
- Has anyone put a P31 pkg. on dyno?
- How much of the 30hp is from the ECU?
- Why did they change the pistons/rods/crank to get power gains?
They only mention a power gain (i.e. no torque gain). I just don't understand the need for the hardware change (from the SLS none-the-less), if the power could be realized through the ECU alone.Any thoughts
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Posts: 258
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From: Bellevue, WA
'10 C63 AMG P31, '88 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe, '78 Toyota FJ40, '10 Audi Q7 TDi
- Has anyone put a P31 pkg. on dyno?
- How much of the 30hp is from the ECU?
- Why did they change the pistons/rods/crank to get power gains?
They only mention a power gain (i.e. no torque gain). I just don't understand the need for the hardware change (from the SLS none-the-less), if the power could be realized through the ECU alone.Any thoughts
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From: SoCal
2018 AMG GTR, 2017 GLS63, 2019 C63s
- Has anyone put a P31 pkg. on dyno?
- How much of the 30hp is from the ECU?
- Why did they change the pistons/rods/crank to get power gains?
They only mention a power gain (i.e. no torque gain). I just don't understand the need for the hardware change (from the SLS none-the-less), if the power could be realized through the ECU alone.Any thoughts
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...y-did-amg.html
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i10
If I was to purchase your ECU tune I would want you guys to do the whole car for me. Because I think it is better to have the car in one hands. And you will know what works better with the ECU tune you offer. Thank you in advance and sorry for the first question.
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MB
- Has anyone put a P31 pkg. on dyno?
- How much of the 30hp is from the ECU?
- Why did they change the pistons/rods/crank to get power gains?
They only mention a power gain (i.e. no torque gain). I just don't understand the need for the hardware change (from the SLS none-the-less), if the power could be realized through the ECU alone.Any thoughts
My opinion for the utility of adding a forged rotating assembly has to do with reducing weight of the rotating mass. This allows for faster revs, less internal inertia, etc. Perhaps the increased efficiency may even contribute a 1-10 hp gain.
Realistically, the flywheel power gain advertised on these engines by a tune is very attainable. Actually, with forged internals, the 30 hp bump is very modest.
