paulGT3

Anyone been to road courses and have some opinions on the suspension and transmission? Seems like everyone goes to the drag strip, and I am keenly interested in the on track performance(road course) of this car. I know its not Black Series stuff or 911 GT3 stuff but I expect it to be on the next level. I am curious of any thoughts on the suspension and thoughts to tighten up some of the understeer. That may be hard with 6.2 liters of Horsepower and torque sitting on top of the front suspension but I was wondering if anything but the ECU?TCU engineering upgrades have begun to churn yet.
Anyone live close to Button Willow or Willow SPrings? If so who do you go out with? Speedventures? POC BMW clubs?

Also former/current 911 pilots care to share handling thoughts with the board?

Hans Delbruck

POC is pretty good but they only let the "noobs" drive at Streets. And they don't like it when non-Porsches pass Porsches. But they are fairly professional. Streets needs to be re-paved IMO. I'm tired of trying to like that track.

Speed Ventures is good although I would stay out of the "noob" groups because these days it seems most are interested in learning to drift instead of driving good laps. The crowd has changed a bit over the last few years as most of the serious guys have moved on to SCCA or NASA (which also have their downsides!)

I will probably get my C63 out for a few laps at Spring Mountain/Pahrump in a few weeks. Most of my time will be in my dedicated track car though.

paulGT3

Hans I am a POC member but dont have any of my check offs
(I have my POC mag in my lap) I dont know if I want this car on
the BIG track yet!!
Keep in touch if you go to Willow. I live 40 miles away.

Speed Ventures are hairy. I have run twice with them and youre right
the noob groups were scary but they made my run the first time with the green group. That session there were a bunch kids with new G35 sedans in the green group were running them REAL hard and I have NEVER smelled so many different burning fluids. They had all burnt up their cars and werent running by lunch time sessions. Mostly brakes.

gravedgr

I haven't gotten any track time on mine (500 miles), but initial impressions is that you'll need to master power oversteer to get any decent times. With such a heavy chassis and all that weight up front I expect a lot of pushing if you enter too fast and a happy back end if you enter too slow (and roll into the throttle too soon).

paulGT3

Power oversteer wasnt a GT3 problem was it?!LOL

yooker

the lack of response to this thread concludes that the majority of the people here do not want to bring their car to a road course

paulGT3

thats too bad, becasue that where this car is really going to shine

splinter

Well run outfit..www.opentrackracing.com

Saw this gent running last month:

paulGT3

thats cool.
with clear bra though you dont need so much painters tape.
I tracked once and this lady showed up with her husbands 911.
By herself. She taped almost the whole car. it was hilarious.

with clear bra I reinforce the headlights and thats it.

yooker

Can we get any feedback on the car on a road course? I am getting tired of only receiving 1/4mile results. Does the car get brake fade? How does the transmission hold up? Does it understeer at the limit and is it really as twitchy as Clarkson and them have lead us to believe?

paulGT3

Thats what I want to know. I know EarlyApex and some of my other 911 buddies that have come over to the AMG are going to go to the track will be reporting. I have back surgery in Dec and cant go till afterwards.
From some of the reports I have had are (from the AMG owners board
you have to have a VIN to register)
No Brake fade, and the tranny is OK but tires are an issue
Early wear and sesitive to air pressures.
THis was from a variety of AMG vehicles though in the
08 model year.

yooker

So the stock rubber is not holding up, the reason I ask for this is because i am seriously considered either E92/90 M3 with MDCT or the C63. I've read many post about the C63's transmission being very inconsistent at shifting in M mode and was wondering if this is the case when one is driving it on the track. Also I've been browsing the M3 forums and have noticed that the M3's MDCT transmission fails to downshift under hard braking so I was also curious if the C63 transmission would lock up and refuse to downshift under hard braking as well.

mrtesting

+1

Strafe1

From the few road test reviews (Lightning lap and Speed Channel Fire and Ice) it seems the C63's tranny is excellent on the track. Always finds the right gear, etc. The M3 seems to handle the track a bit better though, but not much difference in lap times. I too am curious to see how you guys do on the track. Paul Tracy said that leaving it in Sport and ESP in Sport was the best for him.

paulGT3

The M3 has always had a small edge on the track. Probably the one reason that kills the M3 in the straights is the reason the C63 is slower on turn in etc.
The BIG 6.2 liter motor hanging over the front suspension. Its got to be heavier than a little itsy bitsy 4.0 liter V8 in the BMW.
That big motor probably holds back our front suspension abit and causes a bit of understeer on the track. But its ok. Just wait a couple laps and let the M3's 1940 brake calipers start fading and you can go deeper in to the corner than the M3 can and you will start carving the M3 up. Unless the M3 has a brake upgrade then it will be a tussle all day.

I have been asking at the AMG private lounge about what modes to use on the track and like Paul Tracy people are recommending ESP SPort and sport mode on the tranny.

yooker

M3's have single piston floating calipers, but a fluid upgrade and replacing the pads would solve most of the problem since 90% of the M3 drivers won't be overdriving the car anyways.

On a side note, has anyone found any type of brake pad for the C63 that is a bit more aggressive and aimed at high performance driving such as HAWKS HP+ ?

AMGC60-3

+1 , I would say after a few laps the brakes and tranny would tell the whole story, most of these test seem to be only one hot lap on a small "mickey mouse" course.

AMGC60-3

I have noticed over the years that MB never had the optimal setup on their stock cars ie being rims and rubber and I believe the C63 is in the same boat as well as still being to high suspension wise.Every benz that I have owned I have noticed a tremendous difference to handling and braking.Lower center of gravity from lower suspension and better rubber for more grip. I truly believe that the C63 has so much more room for improvement that it could brought up to super car standards.

yooker

Hopefully with some minor tuning the car will match the M3 in the handling department. Does anyone know how much negative camber the stock C63 without PP is running and what is the maximum the car can run? Also would the front tires rub if some 235's were used.

paulGT3

Yooker I agree with some suspension tuning the C63 should be able to handle a M3.

On the M3 brake front you are right about the BMW brake probably ok for 90%.
But REALLY if you are going to sink $70K into a performance car would you not like to have a TOP NOTCH braking system? EVERY other car does.
I would be abit embarrased to have that system on the car.
At least BMW tries to hide it with a many spoke wheeel.
BMW knows the problem and has signed with Brembo for upcoming
models. In fact the 08 135i has the Brembo package.

yooker

Brembo is one of the leading brake manufacturers, but when we look at brakes its not as simple as how many pistons each caliper has. I know the 135i has Brembo brakes but that doesn't always necessarily mean the brakes are of a single piston floating design. We also have to take into consideration the rotor thickness and type of brake pad material. I can see where you are coming from when you mention that a car that is worth $70k doesn't come with some sort of fixed caliper design, but that doesn't always mean the brakes aren't up to task.

paulGT3

Youre right

But I have read many a thread where a M3 has gone to the track and cooked its brakes. Not so much with this E90 type because the owners dont seem to be as track oriented as the older series was.

I have never gone to the track and seen a M3 with a stock setup either
The M3 stock setup doesnt seem to dissipate heat correctly. AND it may
be OK but there isnt a race team on the planet that uses that same setup
on the track.

yooker

Seems like me and you are the only ones interested about corners on this part of the forum.

paulGT3

We'll get them interested when we can start getting to the track.

yooker

Too bad winter is coming, track will be closed until spring. There isn't much of a track where I live. Only road course is mission raceway, which is basically 6 hairpins with 1 sweeper and a short straight, no time to cool off the brakes. Also it is lined with concrete walls on either side for a good 90% of the track.