AMG 6.3 high-flow airbox demystified
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MB
You will not need a tune for any airbox.
You will not "need" a tune for any mod on the 63 in fact. The ecu will not allow the car to run into danger zone.
However, and this is a BIG however, you will get sub-optimal results. What will happen is the car will sense knock, ping, detonation or other "out of normal parameter" readings and pull timing and/or fuel. So you will have a car that you spent a lot of money on mods that runs like crap (often worse than stock).
thanks
Brad
You will not "need" a tune for any mod on the 63 in fact. The ecu will not allow the car to run into danger zone.
However, and this is a BIG however, you will get sub-optimal results. What will happen is the car will sense knock, ping, detonation or other "out of normal parameter" readings and pull timing and/or fuel. So you will have a car that you spent a lot of money on mods that runs like crap (often worse than stock).
thanks
Brad
I'm just beginning to learn about MB performance. And I appreciate someone with your experience providing feedback.
I understand that the ECU will protect the engine with KR, etc., and an untuned car with bolt ons may make the car worse, depending on the combo of parts, but regarding airboxes alone as a single and exclusive mod, I would think -- based on what you said about these cars handling a 13 AFR -- that the car would only benefit from the mod.
I saw a dyno graph on this forum where someone installed the ROW air boxes with charcoal delete and they appeared to up the midrange torque. In some parts of the powerband, I believe the torque was 20 lbs/ft higher with the ROW boxes and charcoal delete.
I didn't see a AFR reading so I'm not sure what that line looked like for that run.
Brad, do you know if the C63's that come with the ROW airboxes from the factory have a different OEM tune than U.S. cars that come with the more restrictive airboxes?
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Thank you, Brad.
I'm just beginning to learn about MB performance. And I appreciate someone with your experience providing feedback.
I understand that the ECU will protect the engine with KR, etc., and an untuned car with bolt ons may make the car worse, depending on the combo of parts, but regarding airboxes alone as a single and exclusive mod, I would think -- based on what you said about these cars handling a 13 AFR -- that the car would only benefit from the mod.
I saw a dyno graph on this forum where someone installed the ROW air boxes with charcoal delete and they appeared to up the midrange torque. In some parts of the powerband, I believe the torque was 20 lbs/ft higher with the ROW boxes and charcoal delete.
I didn't see a AFR reading so I'm not sure what that line looked like for that run.
Brad, do you know if the C63's that come with the ROW airboxes from the factory have a different OEM tune than U.S. cars that come with the more restrictive airboxes?
I'm just beginning to learn about MB performance. And I appreciate someone with your experience providing feedback.
I understand that the ECU will protect the engine with KR, etc., and an untuned car with bolt ons may make the car worse, depending on the combo of parts, but regarding airboxes alone as a single and exclusive mod, I would think -- based on what you said about these cars handling a 13 AFR -- that the car would only benefit from the mod.
I saw a dyno graph on this forum where someone installed the ROW air boxes with charcoal delete and they appeared to up the midrange torque. In some parts of the powerband, I believe the torque was 20 lbs/ft higher with the ROW boxes and charcoal delete.
I didn't see a AFR reading so I'm not sure what that line looked like for that run.
Brad, do you know if the C63's that come with the ROW airboxes from the factory have a different OEM tune than U.S. cars that come with the more restrictive airboxes?
Yes, you do not need a tune and the airboxes are a good stand alone mod.
I don't know 100% if the tune is different, but I am fairly certain that it is NOT.
PM replied to!
thanks
Brad
Last edited by brad @ evosport; Aug 26, 2010 at 11:26 AM.
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We could also use shielding to protect the underside of the airbox. Have you guys felt how hot it is since it sits pretty much above the exhaust manifolds?
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MB
I know what I am asking is probably not an issue, but just curious if anyone has thought about this before or maybe it's a non issue.
What about wrapping the intake tubes with header wrap to keep heat out of them? You'd have to use the opposite side of the wrap I assume.
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No problem, happy to help! That is what this site is for!
Yes, you do not need a tune and the airboxes are a good stand alone mod.
I don't know 100% if the tune is different, but I am fairly certain that it is NOT.
Cannot say for Kleeman, but yes for us and dealer. However, if you order from us, we also sell better high flow air filters as well, so you can get both at the same place! =)
PM replied to!
thanks
Brad
Yes, you do not need a tune and the airboxes are a good stand alone mod.
I don't know 100% if the tune is different, but I am fairly certain that it is NOT.
Cannot say for Kleeman, but yes for us and dealer. However, if you order from us, we also sell better high flow air filters as well, so you can get both at the same place! =)
PM replied to!
thanks
Brad
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great, here is the guide for the C63:
http://www.evosport.com/product/vehi...63AMG_W204.pdf
thanks
brad
http://www.evosport.com/product/vehi...63AMG_W204.pdf
thanks
brad
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great, here is the guide for the C63:
http://www.evosport.com/product/vehi...63AMG_W204.pdf
thanks
brad
http://www.evosport.com/product/vehi...63AMG_W204.pdf
thanks
brad
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For diy guys you can use this stuff for heat shielding on the bottom and sides of the airbox http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tp...action=product. This stuff is used in almost all motorsports.
or http://www.designengineering.com/cat...r/reflect-gold
or http://www.designengineering.com/cat...r/reflect-gold
Last edited by CLK 2 GLK; Nov 14, 2010 at 12:12 AM.
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For diy guys you can use this stuff for heat shielding on the bottom and sides of the airbox http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tp...action=product. This stuff is used in almost all motorsports.
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Yes, CLK 2 GLK, thank you. I'm going to look into this.
Btw, Sincity, I really enjoyed this thread. I use the ROW's and BMC's. If anything the price was definitely worth the increase in exhaust sound. And it seems like my car pulls harder in cool air with this setup.
Btw, Sincity, I really enjoyed this thread. I use the ROW's and BMC's. If anything the price was definitely worth the increase in exhaust sound. And it seems like my car pulls harder in cool air with this setup.
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Yes, CLK 2 GLK, thank you. I'm going to look into this.
Btw, Sincity, I really enjoyed this thread. I use the ROW's and BMC's. If anything the price was definitely worth the increase in exhaust sound. And it seems like my car pulls harder in cool air with this setup.
Btw, Sincity, I really enjoyed this thread. I use the ROW's and BMC's. If anything the price was definitely worth the increase in exhaust sound. And it seems like my car pulls harder in cool air with this setup.
I, too, was a little astonished how the difference in air inlet changed the sound characteristic of the vehicle.
Last edited by Sincity; Nov 14, 2010 at 12:46 PM.
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2009 C63 AMG
I finally got my new ROW air boxes today! Do you guys think I should use the stock filters or replace them with K&Ns? What about BMC or Carbonio? Which are better?
Is there any real increase in power over the stock filters? According to the dyno results in this thread, the ROW air boxes with stock filters should provide about 20 rwhp , but are there any additional gains if I replace the stock filters as well?
P.S. I have an extra set of ROW air boxes up for sale in Classifieds if anyone is interested.
Is there any real increase in power over the stock filters? According to the dyno results in this thread, the ROW air boxes with stock filters should provide about 20 rwhp , but are there any additional gains if I replace the stock filters as well?
P.S. I have an extra set of ROW air boxes up for sale in Classifieds if anyone is interested.
Last edited by andy_c63; Dec 23, 2010 at 05:57 PM.
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I finally got my new ROW air boxes today! Do you guys think I should use the stock filters or replace them with K&Ns? What about BMC or Carbonio? Which are better?
Is there any real increase in power over the stock filters? According to the dyno results in this thread, the ROW air boxes with stock filters should provide about 20whp , but are there any additional gains if I replace the stock filters as well?
P.S. I have an extra set of ROW air boxes up for sale in Classifieds if anyone is interested.
Is there any real increase in power over the stock filters? According to the dyno results in this thread, the ROW air boxes with stock filters should provide about 20whp , but are there any additional gains if I replace the stock filters as well?
P.S. I have an extra set of ROW air boxes up for sale in Classifieds if anyone is interested.
ROW's don't add 20 rwhp, but they do help the car sound a bit louder.
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2009 C63 AMG
Further testing on the dyno and track will tell how much rwhp the ROW's provide. They do feel like they add something and I feel BMC's help as well. My car feels plugged up when I use stock filters.
ROW's don't add 20 rwhp, but they do help the car sound a bit louder.
ROW's don't add 20 rwhp, but they do help the car sound a bit louder.
But one of the members did post the dyno results earlier in this thread. My bad, it was 10 rwhp max gain, not 20 rwhp. 20 rwhp was only between 3000-5000 rpm...
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ml#post4056336
Last edited by andy_c63; Dec 23, 2010 at 05:51 PM.
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I am to lazy to dyno
But one of the members did post the dyno results earlier in this thread. My bad, it was 10 rwhp max gain, not 20 rwhp. 20 rwhp was only between 3000-5000 rpm...
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ml#post4056336
But one of the members did post the dyno results earlier in this thread. My bad, it was 10 rwhp max gain, not 20 rwhp. 20 rwhp was only between 3000-5000 rpm...
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ml#post4056336
I've seen the dyno you're talking about. But as Superlubricity has pointed out, we don't know whether that increase in power (namely rwtq) was simply due to the car warming up.
Superlubricity and others have done countless dynos on our cars and it's becoming pretty well accepted that the ROW's probably don't show much of a gain on the dyno.
A sponsor on this site -- I think it was MBH, but not 100% sure -- recently tested the ROW's and found a 6 or 8 rwhp gain.
The difficulty is creating enough air flow for the ROW's to show a noticable gain.
I feel the gain with them when I open the car up past 4000 rpms. The car charges harder (in my opinion) with ROW's and aftermarket filters, especially in cold, dry air.
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2009 C63 AMG
Hmm... We'll see once I install them over the weekend.
Which filters should I go with? K&N and BMC are oily, right? I think Carbonio is foam, but is it as good as K&N or BMC?
In any case, I would probably run stock filters in winter not to clog the more expensive high-flow filters with road salt.
Which filters should I go with? K&N and BMC are oily, right? I think Carbonio is foam, but is it as good as K&N or BMC?
In any case, I would probably run stock filters in winter not to clog the more expensive high-flow filters with road salt.
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Hmm... We'll see once I install them over the weekend.
Which filters should I go with? K&N and BMC are oily, right? I think Carbonio is foam, but is it as good as K&N or BMC?
In any case, I would probably run stock filters in winter not to clog the more expensive high-flow filters with road salt.
Which filters should I go with? K&N and BMC are oily, right? I think Carbonio is foam, but is it as good as K&N or BMC?
In any case, I would probably run stock filters in winter not to clog the more expensive high-flow filters with road salt.
Makes sense about the road salt.
Best of luck with the install.
