How's our Top End?
02-25-2010, 09:38 AM
#51
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
2009 C63 AMG / 2007 BMW 130i M Sport
Dynos don't mean much? Ok...that's news to me.
What is also news is that your 32 valves open up much better at higher RPMs than everybody elses.
Everybody that has ever had a tune said they could feel the hardest pull at the top, unlike before, where it was pulling hard mid-range, but seemed to fade near 6000rpms (not decrease in power, but just not gain as much).
You must have the special C63 that is detuned from the factory. I heard if you got the golden ticket in your Willie Wonka Bar, that was the reward.
I'm not going to argue that C63 vs. M5, since i haven't raced one...but I will argue that the 6.2L in the C-series begins to flatten above 5500rpms...would love for somebody with some credentials to argue otherwise.
What is also news is that your 32 valves open up much better at higher RPMs than everybody elses.
Everybody that has ever had a tune said they could feel the hardest pull at the top, unlike before, where it was pulling hard mid-range, but seemed to fade near 6000rpms (not decrease in power, but just not gain as much).
You must have the special C63 that is detuned from the factory. I heard if you got the golden ticket in your Willie Wonka Bar, that was the reward.
I'm not going to argue that C63 vs. M5, since i haven't raced one...but I will argue that the 6.2L in the C-series begins to flatten above 5500rpms...would love for somebody with some credentials to argue otherwise.
That's why it is called "torque curve" and not "torque straight line"...haha...
02-25-2010, 09:44 AM
#52
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
2009 C63 AMG / 2007 BMW 130i M Sport
Its so weird our car are not really stable at that speed!?? I actually feel like there is wind hitting me from both sides of the car felt like just a little left and right on the steering comin up to that speed!! Which guys it could get pretty scary!! I even have the performance package on my car and running on the oem 19s, but I guess stiffer suspension should help any recomenda guys! I think our cars may need a bigg *** wing to give it some down force, but that will ruin the whole Mercedes Benz
classy looks!
classy looks!
02-25-2010, 09:52 AM
#53
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
2013 Chevy 427 Torch Red
have you guys ever thought that the engine could be detuned from factory to only open 60% of its throttle body so that the motor won't blow up and will last longer? just a thought...
I would rather have a C63 with a little less horsepower but will last me 100k miles without many major problems than an m3 thats revving the crap out of the motor and having to replace a head gasket after 40k. i think the new C class' are really reliable and very solid builds, TRY JUMPING ON THE DOOR LOL!!!! like the commercial!
and why are you guys comparing the C63 to a M5? they are totally different classes, and different profile of drivers. the m5 is geared toward the e63, rs6 and other variable autos, in the mid size luxury category.
the C63 should be within the m3 sedan, RS4 and the caddy cst-v even though the cts v would really wop all of those vehicles stock and lb per lb. i would never buy a caddy though.
I would rather have a C63 with a little less horsepower but will last me 100k miles without many major problems than an m3 thats revving the crap out of the motor and having to replace a head gasket after 40k. i think the new C class' are really reliable and very solid builds, TRY JUMPING ON THE DOOR LOL!!!! like the commercial!
and why are you guys comparing the C63 to a M5? they are totally different classes, and different profile of drivers. the m5 is geared toward the e63, rs6 and other variable autos, in the mid size luxury category.
the C63 should be within the m3 sedan, RS4 and the caddy cst-v even though the cts v would really wop all of those vehicles stock and lb per lb. i would never buy a caddy though.
02-25-2010, 10:39 AM
#54
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,679
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CLS55 AMG
So why do you have a dyno plot in your sig, then? 
That would certainly indicate that you think they're of some worth...and you also seemed to think that they're very meaningful when you started this thread, entitled "My stock 02 Clk55 on Dyno Dynamics!", posted your plots in it, and argued with AMS Performance when he told you that the dyno you were posting was screwed up, that the mods you have wouldn't account for the ridiculously hgih horsepower, and that it was likely a case of operator error.
Your response there was not that "dynos don't mean much"; quite the contrary in fact: you only stopped arguing in that post after you posted a second plot and he told you, flat out, that the results you got were crank horsepower, not wheel horsepower.
And even then your response was not that "dynos don't mean much", but rather that you were going back to get another one, even though AMS already told you that the dyno plot was spot-on where it should be for crank hp for that car based upon his experience.
THe C63 is restricted from the factory by detuning SW. If yours pulls like that up high, then the de-tuned factory SW has been overwritten with the good stuff, end of story. Enjoy it, and be glad that the previous owner saved you the $ to get it done.
That would certainly indicate that you think they're of some worth...and you also seemed to think that they're very meaningful when you started this thread, entitled "My stock 02 Clk55 on Dyno Dynamics!", posted your plots in it, and argued with AMS Performance when he told you that the dyno you were posting was screwed up, that the mods you have wouldn't account for the ridiculously hgih horsepower, and that it was likely a case of operator error.
Your response there was not that "dynos don't mean much"; quite the contrary in fact: you only stopped arguing in that post after you posted a second plot and he told you, flat out, that the results you got were crank horsepower, not wheel horsepower.
And even then your response was not that "dynos don't mean much", but rather that you were going back to get another one, even though AMS already told you that the dyno plot was spot-on where it should be for crank hp for that car based upon his experience.
THe C63 is restricted from the factory by detuning SW. If yours pulls like that up high, then the de-tuned factory SW has been overwritten with the good stuff, end of story. Enjoy it, and be glad that the previous owner saved you the $ to get it done.
02-25-2010, 06:04 PM
#55
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Desert
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
02 CLK 55 AMG,09 C63 loaded with P30
So why do you have a dyno plot in your sig, then?
That would certainly indicate that you think they're of some worth...and you also seemed to think that they're very meaningful when you started this thread, entitled "My stock 02 Clk55 on Dyno Dynamics!", posted your plots in it, and argued with AMS Performance when he told you that the dyno you were posting was screwed up, that the mods you have wouldn't account for the ridiculously hgih horsepower, and that it was likely a case of operator error.
Your response there was not that "dynos don't mean much"; quite the contrary in fact: you only stopped arguing in that post after you posted a second plot and he told you, flat out, that the results you got were crank horsepower, not wheel horsepower.
And even then your response was not that "dynos don't mean much", but rather that you were going back to get another one, even though AMS already told you that the dyno plot was spot-on where it should be for crank hp for that car based upon his experience.
THe C63 is restricted from the factory by detuning SW. If yours pulls like that up high, then the de-tuned factory SW has been overwritten with the good stuff, end of story. Enjoy it, and be glad that the previous owner saved you the $ to get it done.
That would certainly indicate that you think they're of some worth...and you also seemed to think that they're very meaningful when you started this thread, entitled "My stock 02 Clk55 on Dyno Dynamics!", posted your plots in it, and argued with AMS Performance when he told you that the dyno you were posting was screwed up, that the mods you have wouldn't account for the ridiculously hgih horsepower, and that it was likely a case of operator error.
Your response there was not that "dynos don't mean much"; quite the contrary in fact: you only stopped arguing in that post after you posted a second plot and he told you, flat out, that the results you got were crank horsepower, not wheel horsepower.
And even then your response was not that "dynos don't mean much", but rather that you were going back to get another one, even though AMS already told you that the dyno plot was spot-on where it should be for crank hp for that car based upon his experience.
THe C63 is restricted from the factory by detuning SW. If yours pulls like that up high, then the de-tuned factory SW has been overwritten with the good stuff, end of story. Enjoy it, and be glad that the previous owner saved you the $ to get it done.
02-25-2010, 06:14 PM
#56
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Desert
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
02 CLK 55 AMG,09 C63 loaded with P30
So why do you have a dyno plot in your sig, then?
That would certainly indicate that you think they're of some worth...and you also seemed to think that they're very meaningful when you started this thread, entitled "My stock 02 Clk55 on Dyno Dynamics!", posted your plots in it, and argued with AMS Performance when he told you that the dyno you were posting was screwed up, that the mods you have wouldn't account for the ridiculously hgih horsepower, and that it was likely a case of operator error.
Your response there was not that "dynos don't mean much"; quite the contrary in fact: you only stopped arguing in that post after you posted a second plot and he told you, flat out, that the results you got were crank horsepower, not wheel horsepower.
And even then your response was not that "dynos don't mean much", but rather that you were going back to get another one, even though AMS already told you that the dyno plot was spot-on where it should be for crank hp for that car based upon his experience.
THe C63 is restricted from the factory by detuning SW. If yours pulls like that up high, then the de-tuned factory SW has been overwritten with the good stuff, end of story. Enjoy it, and be glad that the previous owner saved you the $ to get it done.
That would certainly indicate that you think they're of some worth...and you also seemed to think that they're very meaningful when you started this thread, entitled "My stock 02 Clk55 on Dyno Dynamics!", posted your plots in it, and argued with AMS Performance when he told you that the dyno you were posting was screwed up, that the mods you have wouldn't account for the ridiculously hgih horsepower, and that it was likely a case of operator error.
Your response there was not that "dynos don't mean much"; quite the contrary in fact: you only stopped arguing in that post after you posted a second plot and he told you, flat out, that the results you got were crank horsepower, not wheel horsepower.
And even then your response was not that "dynos don't mean much", but rather that you were going back to get another one, even though AMS already told you that the dyno plot was spot-on where it should be for crank hp for that car based upon his experience.
THe C63 is restricted from the factory by detuning SW. If yours pulls like that up high, then the de-tuned factory SW has been overwritten with the good stuff, end of story. Enjoy it, and be glad that the previous owner saved you the $ to get it done.
02-25-2010, 06:27 PM
#57
Senior Member
Well he posted his dyno #s when the rpms reach 5500 and not pulling harder to redline. Which I think is not true. I definitely feel it pulling harder to 7000rpm. So his dyno chart doesnt add up to real world driving. Also I thought my CPO C63 had a tune when I walked the E63. Not the case because it still has the charcoal filters. What I think is my C63 has the P30 AMG perf pack-suede side steering,2pc front rotors,delimited to 174,stiffer susp. But doesnt tell the public about the tuned hp?
Perhaps you could charge $125/hr for your Butt-dyno...you could just ride around in cars and tell the owners what the WHP and TQ is at all RPMS/MPH ranges, etc..."Wait, do that run again! My butt picked up a strong burst of power between 3250-3750 RPMs...that'd be a good side-business
02-25-2010, 07:09 PM
#58
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,679
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CLS55 AMG
Also I thought my CPO C63 had a tune when I walked the E63. Not the case because it still has the charcoal filters. What I think is my C63 has the P30 AMG perf pack-suede side steering,2pc front rotors,delimited to 174,stiffer susp. But doesnt tell the public about the tuned hp?
For your hypothesis to be corect, we'd have to see some dynos and/or at least 1/4 mi runs from known stock C63s w/the 030. I personally doubt that this is what happened, but if they screwed up on their SW for the 030s (or did it deliberately) it's a possibility, although doing it deliberately would be risky for them as if word got out the non-030 C63 owners would be *seriously* PO'd, not a good idea from a business standpoint....
The most plausible explanation is that it's had this done by the previous owner. Shouldn't be all that difficult to verify in one way or another, but outrunning an E63 definitely indicates it's not giving stock-level performance.
02-25-2010, 07:36 PM
#59
Super Moderator Alumni
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 2,189
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
2011 GLK 350, 2013 GT-R, & 2013 RAM 1500
I can't believe I'm still posting in this thread. I've never before witnessed such poor logic and denial of data.
Jons95c36amg, here are a ton of independent dyno graphs (just like the one I posted before) showing a stock C63 curve vs. the curve of the same car tuned. Ignoring the numbers you'll see that every single stock C63 starts to taper off at a less aggressive ramp at approximately 5200 RPM.
If your car does not do this, your car is not stock. Stop hypothesizing; throw it on a dyno and see for yourself. Bring back some data.
These were all pulled from this thread -> https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ine-dynos.html
Jons95c36amg, here are a ton of independent dyno graphs (just like the one I posted before) showing a stock C63 curve vs. the curve of the same car tuned. Ignoring the numbers you'll see that every single stock C63 starts to taper off at a less aggressive ramp at approximately 5200 RPM.
If your car does not do this, your car is not stock. Stop hypothesizing; throw it on a dyno and see for yourself. Bring back some data.
These were all pulled from this thread -> https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ine-dynos.html
02-25-2010, 08:05 PM
#60
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Desert
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
02 CLK 55 AMG,09 C63 loaded with P30
I can't believe I'm still posting in this thread. I've never before witnessed such poor logic and denial of data.
Jons95c36amg, here are a ton of independent dyno graphs (just like the one I posted before) showing a stock C63 curve vs. the curve of the same car tuned. Ignoring the numbers you'll see that every single stock C63 starts to taper off at a less aggressive ramp at approximately 5200 RPM.
If your car does not do this, your car is not stock. Stop hypothesizing; throw it on a dyno and see for yourself. Bring back some data.
These were all pulled from this thread -> https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ine-dynos.html
Jons95c36amg, here are a ton of independent dyno graphs (just like the one I posted before) showing a stock C63 curve vs. the curve of the same car tuned. Ignoring the numbers you'll see that every single stock C63 starts to taper off at a less aggressive ramp at approximately 5200 RPM.
If your car does not do this, your car is not stock. Stop hypothesizing; throw it on a dyno and see for yourself. Bring back some data.
These were all pulled from this thread -> https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ine-dynos.html
02-25-2010, 08:12 PM
#61
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Desert
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
02 CLK 55 AMG,09 C63 loaded with P30
Butt dyno != real dyno.
Why would the presence of charcoal filters preclude its having the factory limiting SW removed? E63s have factory charcoal filters, so it's not as though the engine cannot operate at the higher HP ratings with them installed.
For your hypothesis to be corect, we'd have to see some dynos and/or at least 1/4 mi runs from known stock C63s w/the 030. I personally doubt that this is what happened, but if they screwed up on their SW for the 030s (or did it deliberately) it's a possibility, although doing it deliberately would be risky for them as if word got out the non-030 C63 owners would be *seriously* PO'd, not a good idea from a business standpoint....
The most plausible explanation is that it's had this done by the previous owner. Shouldn't be all that difficult to verify in one way or another, but outrunning an E63 definitely indicates it's not giving stock-level performance.
Why would the presence of charcoal filters preclude its having the factory limiting SW removed? E63s have factory charcoal filters, so it's not as though the engine cannot operate at the higher HP ratings with them installed.
For your hypothesis to be corect, we'd have to see some dynos and/or at least 1/4 mi runs from known stock C63s w/the 030. I personally doubt that this is what happened, but if they screwed up on their SW for the 030s (or did it deliberately) it's a possibility, although doing it deliberately would be risky for them as if word got out the non-030 C63 owners would be *seriously* PO'd, not a good idea from a business standpoint....
The most plausible explanation is that it's had this done by the previous owner. Shouldn't be all that difficult to verify in one way or another, but outrunning an E63 definitely indicates it's not giving stock-level performance.
BTW I'm going to the dragstrip in the spring and see whats up.
02-25-2010, 08:16 PM
#62
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Desert
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
02 CLK 55 AMG,09 C63 loaded with P30
How would it having charcoal filters confirm/deny a tune? You can have a tune w/ or w/o charcoal filters...
Perhaps you could charge $125/hr for your Butt-dyno...you could just ride around in cars and tell the owners what the WHP and TQ is at all RPMS/MPH ranges, etc..."Wait, do that run again! My butt picked up a strong burst of power between 3250-3750 RPMs...that'd be a good side-business
Perhaps you could charge $125/hr for your Butt-dyno...you could just ride around in cars and tell the owners what the WHP and TQ is at all RPMS/MPH ranges, etc..."Wait, do that run again! My butt picked up a strong burst of power between 3250-3750 RPMs...that'd be a good side-business
Ive seen them very restricted.
02-25-2010, 08:59 PM
#63
MBWorld Fanatic!
Do you mean this wing?
Well I have to say that its super stable on freeway going 250km and up. Plus Vath front lip is a help also. Specially in high speed corner you would not believe big difference with this and front lip. Gets nice down force.
Well I have to say that its super stable on freeway going 250km and up. Plus Vath front lip is a help also. Specially in high speed corner you would not believe big difference with this and front lip. Gets nice down force.
02-25-2010, 09:54 PM
#65
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,679
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CLS55 AMG
If you pulled an E63, what's up is obvious to everyone here except you.
02-25-2010, 10:28 PM
#66
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2007 SRT8 Charger, 09' C63
02-26-2010, 01:41 AM
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C63 AMG
02-26-2010, 03:48 AM
#69
MBWorld Fanatic!
02-26-2010, 09:33 AM
#70
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
2009 C63 AMG / 2007 BMW 130i M Sport
Haha! I was hoping you'd come along, man!
O, I do believe that it has a decent downforce. I actually saw an M3 on the street with a huge wing like that one of yours and became curious about the downforce it provides. What's the difference? It would be cool if you could throw in some numbers (like lateral G, 0-60 etc.). I was curious if the wing would "slow down" the acceleration of the car - given the extra wheight provided by the downforce.
To the engineers: sorry if I'm talking any nonsense. I'm a lawyer!
We already discussed the aesthetics about that wing of yours..hehehe...
Vath lip looks nice.
O, I do believe that it has a decent downforce. I actually saw an M3 on the street with a huge wing like that one of yours and became curious about the downforce it provides. What's the difference? It would be cool if you could throw in some numbers (like lateral G, 0-60 etc.). I was curious if the wing would "slow down" the acceleration of the car - given the extra wheight provided by the downforce.
To the engineers: sorry if I'm talking any nonsense. I'm a lawyer!
We already discussed the aesthetics about that wing of yours..hehehe...
Vath lip looks nice.
Last edited by mzporto; 02-26-2010 at 09:36 AM.
02-26-2010, 10:35 AM
#71
MBWorld Fanatic!
Hi guys
i think our cars have pretty good top end. I dont know compared to a m5/6 but my experience is the following. When im at the track, if i change the gears @ 6600-6800rpm, my ets are better then leaving it in S mode and letting go to 7200rpm. Once i get my headers and full exhaust i will be at the track and will test this, but this is what i experienced recently at the track.
h.
i think our cars have pretty good top end. I dont know compared to a m5/6 but my experience is the following. When im at the track, if i change the gears @ 6600-6800rpm, my ets are better then leaving it in S mode and letting go to 7200rpm. Once i get my headers and full exhaust i will be at the track and will test this, but this is what i experienced recently at the track.
h.
02-26-2010, 10:15 PM
#73
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Desert
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
02 CLK 55 AMG,09 C63 loaded with P30
So? This has nothing whatsoever to do with engine control software.
Why wouldn't they? Also, your car is CPO; for all you know they added them back when they inspected the car. Conjecture is hardly a substitute for proof, and the dynos tell the tale. You just don't want to listen to reason as usual, being as you are governed by denial and self-deception. Do yourself a favor: never ever even talk to anybody from your friendly neighborhood cult; you are a prime candidate for recruitment.
If you pulled an E63, what's up is obvious to everyone here except you.
Why wouldn't they? Also, your car is CPO; for all you know they added them back when they inspected the car. Conjecture is hardly a substitute for proof, and the dynos tell the tale. You just don't want to listen to reason as usual, being as you are governed by denial and self-deception. Do yourself a favor: never ever even talk to anybody from your friendly neighborhood cult; you are a prime candidate for recruitment.
If you pulled an E63, what's up is obvious to everyone here except you.
02-27-2010, 01:19 AM
#74
MBWorld Fanatic!
These threads of bench racing and dyno sheets are worthless, best way to find out if you are faster is go to a car meet with a buddy who knows how to use a video camera. Then call a stock M5 out and race him. Make sure to have your TC off and have your car in a high reving gear. If the M5 driver is in auto mode or granny shifting with TC on you will get the initial jump and probably stay ahead. End of story... Paper racing is for fuhgs
Don't forget to post the video.
Don't forget to post the video.
02-27-2010, 03:47 AM
#75
Senior Member
You add NOTHING to this forum!
