secondary cats
12-11-2009, 03:29 PM
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2009 040 Black C63, 2009 Arctic White G55, 2012 Storm Red CLS550 4Matic
secondary cats
guys i need some input.
ive been wanting to get my secondary cats removed and i went to a shop today and the guys said i shouldnt mess with my exhaust setup and that if i delete my secondary cats i will lose torque and power off the line but gain top end....is this true? also, does anyone have a picture of the full exhaust setup of the c63?
thanks in advance
ive been wanting to get my secondary cats removed and i went to a shop today and the guys said i shouldnt mess with my exhaust setup and that if i delete my secondary cats i will lose torque and power off the line but gain top end....is this true? also, does anyone have a picture of the full exhaust setup of the c63?
thanks in advance
12-11-2009, 10:56 PM
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GT3
guys i need some input.
ive been wanting to get my secondary cats removed and i went to a shop today and the guys said i shouldnt mess with my exhaust setup and that if i delete my secondary cats i will lose torque and power off the line but gain top end....is this true? also, does anyone have a picture of the full exhaust setup of the c63?
thanks in advance
ive been wanting to get my secondary cats removed and i went to a shop today and the guys said i shouldnt mess with my exhaust setup and that if i delete my secondary cats i will lose torque and power off the line but gain top end....is this true? also, does anyone have a picture of the full exhaust setup of the c63?
thanks in advance
12-24-2009, 05:47 PM
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C63 AMG Arctic w/ Stage 1 Tune, DoubleXX pipe, MCD-631X coming soon
I am biased, sorry..but our Single X works very nice, good exhaust tone, and an added 25rwhp dyno tested.
12-25-2009, 08:46 PM
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C63 AMG
12-26-2009, 02:43 PM
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'09 C63 AMG
...more like ~ +10-15WHP at best, imho. You can't tell me that an X-pipe yields that much more (if any more) WHP gain than a simple cats delete and straight pipes or high-flow cats.
12-26-2009, 04:25 PM
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C63
Definitely not "cheap," and I'm skeptical of a consistent "25WHP gain" from an X-pipe or any other secondary cats delete mod ...more like ~ +10-15WHP at best, imho. You can't tell me that an X-pipe yields that much more (if any more) WHP gain than a simple cats delete and straight pipes or high-flow cats.
...more like ~ +10-15WHP at best, imho. You can't tell me that an X-pipe yields that much more (if any more) WHP gain than a simple cats delete and straight pipes or high-flow cats.Trending Topics
12-26-2009, 09:27 PM
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E55
I don't claim to be an expert, but I was at a shop (that will remain nameless, as I don't want to get flamed). I was there looking into doing some mods for my 55, and there was a C63 there on the dyno in the bad (got a shop tour) that just got an X pipe installed, and they were talking about how the car had made 24rwhp, (pretty close to that above claim), I asked about doing it to my car, but they said they were not sure of what gains I would expect, instead they suggested a pulley and tune for my car instead, and I chickened out. LOL
12-27-2009, 02:06 AM
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12-27-2009, 09:23 AM
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'09 C63 Performance Package - Steel Grey/Sahara Biege
I've got the K1 tune and can now take all 4 cats off. If this $800 pipe did that, I'd almost be interested...(still a little pricey for a cat delete pipe though).
Has anyone ever done a dyno showing the delta of pure stock versus stock manifolds and 4 cat delete?
Has anyone ever done a dyno showing the delta of pure stock versus stock manifolds and 4 cat delete?
12-27-2009, 01:39 PM
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C63 AMG Arctic w/ Stage 1 Tune, DoubleXX pipe, MCD-631X coming soon
Sin is right, the 25rwhp was not a peak number, it was a number in the midrange, and was not just at one point in the graph, it is carried at various points hence why I use it. IMHO the midrange HP/TQ gains are the most significant improvements for any car, as that is what makes a car quick and fun, the peak numbers are a bit more for bragging rights.
BTW: we have burned through quite a few of your Single X pipes, and it gave us a bit more leeway with the production house. We are selling them now for $695.00, and might be considering a GB soon, and lowering it further with volume. Anyone who has installed one so far has been nothing but pleased with the HP/TQ gains and change in exhaust character (the X sounds different that straight pipes). (you can PM me for references to these guys who have authorized me to do this) Is it more $$ than getting a muffler shop to weld in two straight pipes? yes, but I believe in our product and it's overall dyno/street results as well as reversibility +we include the parts to do the install at home.(muffler shops are touch and go when it comes to removing cats too)
Sorry for the shameless plug.
BTW: we have burned through quite a few of your Single X pipes, and it gave us a bit more leeway with the production house. We are selling them now for $695.00, and might be considering a GB soon, and lowering it further with volume. Anyone who has installed one so far has been nothing but pleased with the HP/TQ gains and change in exhaust character (the X sounds different that straight pipes). (you can PM me for references to these guys who have authorized me to do this) Is it more $$ than getting a muffler shop to weld in two straight pipes? yes, but I believe in our product and it's overall dyno/street results as well as reversibility +we include the parts to do the install at home.(muffler shops are touch and go when it comes to removing cats too)
Sorry for the shameless plug.
Last edited by Brian GT PRO; 12-27-2009 at 01:42 PM.
12-27-2009, 06:50 PM
#17
The power numbers are a tad bit misleading but not inaccurate. Those gains are for deleting 2nd cats AND adding X-pipe (in addition to charcoal filter removal).
Actual gains from X-pipe alone are usually 8-12HP on dyno by itself, Getting high flow cats will also yield roughly 10HP/12TQ on dyno @ wheels. You could in theory get similar results by going with high flow 2nd cats & X-pipe together (Preferably putting the X before the 2nd cats for maximum gains). The car will sound more refined with the high flow 2nd cats than no 2nd cats at all.
With that said, those numbers are totally believable and in line with results seen with X-pipe & 2nd cat mods (especially on a 6.3L).
With that said, it can be done for much less should you chose to modify your stock system via welding the existing stock system (some don't mind, others do so this is a personal preference). You should be able to do it for under $250 in parts and under $400 including labor. For a bolt in solution though that's not that bad, same thing for a new M3 can cost up to 50% more.
Actual gains from X-pipe alone are usually 8-12HP on dyno by itself, Getting high flow cats will also yield roughly 10HP/12TQ on dyno @ wheels. You could in theory get similar results by going with high flow 2nd cats & X-pipe together (Preferably putting the X before the 2nd cats for maximum gains). The car will sound more refined with the high flow 2nd cats than no 2nd cats at all.
With that said, those numbers are totally believable and in line with results seen with X-pipe & 2nd cat mods (especially on a 6.3L).
With that said, it can be done for much less should you chose to modify your stock system via welding the existing stock system (some don't mind, others do so this is a personal preference). You should be able to do it for under $250 in parts and under $400 including labor. For a bolt in solution though that's not that bad, same thing for a new M3 can cost up to 50% more.
Last edited by AMS Performance; 12-27-2009 at 06:53 PM.
12-27-2009, 09:35 PM
#18
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well, due to some $$$ restriction i can not get my headers done any time soon, i have currently got my 2nd cats removed and a tune already. in the new year i will be getting all cats removed, using 3in pipe, then a x then connecting back to stock centre muffler. i will post results once i do this to my current set up.
h.
h.
12-27-2009, 09:41 PM
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'09 C63 AMG
The power numbers are a tad bit misleading but not inaccurate. Those gains are for deleting 2nd cats AND adding X-pipe (in addition to charcoal filter removal).
Actual gains from X-pipe alone are usually 8-12HP on dyno by itself, Getting high flow cats will also yield roughly 10HP/12TQ on dyno @ wheels. You could in theory get similar results by going with high flow 2nd cats & X-pipe together (Preferably putting the X before the 2nd cats for maximum gains). The car will sound more refined with the high flow 2nd cats than no 2nd cats at all.
With that said, those numbers are totally believable and in line with results seen with X-pipe & 2nd cat mods (especially on a 6.3L).
With that said, it can be done for much less should you chose to modify your stock system via welding the existing stock system (some don't mind, others do so this is a personal preference). You should be able to do it for under $250 in parts and under $400 including labor. For a bolt in solution though that's not that bad, same thing for a new M3 can cost up to 50% more.
Actual gains from X-pipe alone are usually 8-12HP on dyno by itself, Getting high flow cats will also yield roughly 10HP/12TQ on dyno @ wheels. You could in theory get similar results by going with high flow 2nd cats & X-pipe together (Preferably putting the X before the 2nd cats for maximum gains). The car will sound more refined with the high flow 2nd cats than no 2nd cats at all.
With that said, those numbers are totally believable and in line with results seen with X-pipe & 2nd cat mods (especially on a 6.3L).
With that said, it can be done for much less should you chose to modify your stock system via welding the existing stock system (some don't mind, others do so this is a personal preference). You should be able to do it for under $250 in parts and under $400 including labor. For a bolt in solution though that's not that bad, same thing for a new M3 can cost up to 50% more.
However, b/c so many ppl who had removed their stock resonator said they hated the sound (way too loud), I chose to leave the resonator in place and just get the high-flow cats (with no X-pipe or other exhaust piping in place of the resonator (before the secondary cats)).
12-28-2009, 08:26 AM
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'09 C63 Performance Package - Steel Grey/Sahara Biege
well, due to some $$$ restriction i can not get my headers done any time soon, i have currently got my 2nd cats removed and a tune already. in the new year i will be getting all cats removed, using 3in pipe, then a x then connecting back to stock centre muffler. i will post results once i do this to my current set up.
h.
h.
Look forward to what you find...
12-28-2009, 09:22 AM
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'09 C63 AMG
Cool, please keep us posted. I think this would be good to gauge the cost/benefit of the bigger quesiton about the headers. For example, it would be good to know what percentage of HP gains from headers are due to the removal of all 4 cats. 25%, 50%, 75%....
Look forward to what you find...
Look forward to what you find...
12-28-2009, 09:28 AM
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h.
12-28-2009, 10:03 AM
#23
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Well said...similar to what I've been saying, which is why I chose to just get high-flow cats. However, b/c so many ppl who had removed their stock resonator said they hated the sound (way too loud), I chose to leave the resonator in place and just get the high-flow cats (with no X-pipe or other exhaust piping in place of the resonator (before the secondary cats)).
However, b/c so many ppl who had removed their stock resonator said they hated the sound (way too loud), I chose to leave the resonator in place and just get the high-flow cats (with no X-pipe or other exhaust piping in place of the resonator (before the secondary cats)).
12-28-2009, 10:57 AM
#24
Be careful with primary cat delete, you can have torque loss (which on the 6.3L is not something you want since most of the power is higher up). Also its illegal, and will throw CEL and also smell pretty bad at stop lights if you drive with windows down. Its really not worth it at all, you are much better off getting high flow primaries & secondaries.
12-28-2009, 11:02 AM
#25
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Be careful with primary cat delete, you can have torque loss (which on the 6.3L is not something you want since most of the power is higher up). Also its illegal, and will throw CEL and also smell pretty bad at stop lights if you drive with windows down. Its really not worth it at all, you are much better off getting high flow primaries & secondaries.
