RM-6302

If my math is correct, the complete exhaust system will set you back, 4611.25 EURO. At 1.099,00 EURO the ECU tune looks like a really good deal! The LT headers are 1.779,05 EURO, but must be purchased with the ECU tune, so 2878.05 EUR. Take away the MwSt., German TAX, and 2,418.90 EURO Total. All in all, very competitive. The exchange rate I get through the BOA Military bank on post is .77XX. It changes daily. So the ECU tune $1,199.39!!! The ECU tune and Long Tube Headers would be $3141.43!!! I don't think anyone can touch those prices.

JM

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benyl

Hmm, headed to Germany in July. Might have to pack my ECU with me.

James@ACG

From us of course...

I'll post some pricing on monday!

chief63

Please do, I'm interested in quality german parts!

alqamzi

I want to know if the headers comes with the downpipes or not?
and if they bolton to the resonator or we have to cut...

superlubricity

Based on the description from the link, this is a modular bolt-in system.

If you are just looking for headers/mid-pipes it looks like the Cargraphic Headers (CARW204C63FK) with the Cargraphic Midpipe (CARW204C63LP) will bolt to the OEM resonator-back.

alqamzi

Thanks for the info..

emericr

Waiting on prices for each parts. I love the idea of the bypass valves but this may get pricey as that means you have to buy their mufflers.

Boost Gomez

Can anyone comment on the advantages and disadvantages of this design, as compared to the MBH and MHP LT headers? These seem to be a "shorter" LT header design, while in the MHP design it seems like the primaries are longer. Then of course the MBH headers employ a "tri-y" design. Any knowledgeable input would be appreciated. Thanks!

James@ACG

CARW204C63FK - Headers
$2,970

CARW204C63LP - Connecting pipe from header to X pipe **Removed secondary Cats**
$1,180

CARW204C63XP - Rear X-pipe **removed resonator**
$1,665

CARW204C63ETS Rear mufflers with exhaust Flaps **removes rear exhaust mufflers
$4,520

CARW204C63ETS Rear mufflers without exhaust Flaps **removes rear exhaust mufflers
$3,536

We of course offer special MBworld pricing on cargraphic.

Boost Gomez

Is the connecting pipe required if we purchase the headers or can they be bolted onto the factory system?

James@ACG

no they are not, you can simply cut after your factory cats and bolt these one.

emericr

Now, I am sure I will get flamed for this but why do vendors would advertise this kind of pricing??
Let's take the example of the rear mufflers with flaps:
price of cargraphics: 2,731. Take off the VAT of 19% is 2,212. Convert to dollars at todays rate = $2,765. Add shipping and we are at about $3,100. That would mean a profit of $1,400 or a gross margin of 30%.
The US vendor has no R&D into this...
Who in their right mind would spend over $5K (includes shipping and install) for a pair of mufflers?
So it seems the only way to do this is order directly from cargraphics.

dodger63

Now that does not seem cheap?

James@ACG

This is a logical concern and I'll try to address this as best as possible, explained to me by Cargraphic's sole US Distributor.

Using the same item the ets exhaust, the pricing listed of 2295 does not include all of the fee's and taxes incurred from importing these items. First and foremost, you'll see on the right of the pricing that the pricing does not include the 19% tax, so that will add an additional 436.05 to the total of 2295 equaling 2731.05. Convert that to USD and we have $3369.29 on the dollar when I checked during this post. Now add the duty taxes, import taxes, freight, repackaging and you can see how the prices increase quickly.

Simply put these are the prices that we need to deal with here in the US and Canada set forth by Cargraphic USA. Everyone is more then welcome to try to purchase them directly from Germany, but please expect to have to have them shipped to a german address and pay the taxes. also all warranty concerns will need to be addressed to them, as you would have purchased these items through the gray market.

Now to answer your question of who in there right mind would spend this kind of money on an exhaust system... some will see the unique feature of the exhaust flap as a necessity for the cold start up, others who simply want an exhaust will go the non exhaust flap route of $3500. The $3500 price is not too far off of the pricing form RENNtech, and Meisterschaft system.

emericr

Thanks for the answer but there are a few flaws in your answer.
I do not read German but being from Europe and buying items from there quite often, the price advertised on european sites usually have the VAT already included in their price unlike American sites. Can someone please confirm.
Companies will be happy to ship you products to the US and not charge you VAT. Some do not want to do that as they have importers in their countries so maybe cargraphics is one of them.
Now I can get flaps installed on my car for about $650 which is probably the way I will go unless someone can prove that this setup will have a negative effect on power.
http://www.quicktimeperformance.com/QTEC/index.php
If there are people who have money to burn and spend $5K, more power to them. There are suckers born every minute...

amdeutsch

1) I saw the disclaimer for the VAT and James is correct in the 2731.05 figure.
2) What James didn't realise, and neither did the rest, is the fact of the "/3" figure after the price. AFAIK that means 3 or more. Thereby invalidating 'each' pricing. This is regardless of the "Stückpreise" quote on the side for those that used a translating program or else.

HTH

Sincity

I wonder if this is the modular approach that GT Pro is working on?

Sincity

I think the whole point is that if a well-known tuner like Cargraphic can offer a header setup for $1495 Euros to local European buyers, why can't one be made for under $2k USD by someone here? Isn't the cost of living higher in Europe where Cargraphic is located as compared to here in the U.S.? Cargraphic just proved it can be done!

The sub $2k header will come soon; just need to be patient. MBH just built a set that is currently less than what the competition is offering with a gain in power. When the initial demand is over, prices will adjust.

Another point: Does it matter if they are made for RHD? If not, perhaps someone here who has container shipments coming from Europe can add a set of Cargraphic headers to their manifest?

racetested

I've seen a few posts regarding Europe and RHD cars. I'm not sure if people are aware but England is the only European country that has RHD cars. The rest of Europe has LHD like the U.S. so European suppliers outside of England are most likely building parts for LHD cars.

C63newdude

I agree with you. I am not Mr Donal Trump and I earn my money like your average person but I refuse to pay a few thousand dollars for a set of headers when there are tons of headers being sold for GM/ford and other car manufacturers for 1/3 of the price.

These local mercedes benz forum vendors/manufacturers can indeed produce headers for much less but they instead prefer to profit as much as they can. Instead I prefer to spend my money wisely.
It is simple, reduce the price of the headers and you will sell more and you can still make a large profit.

Can't wait until a Asian market manufacturer throw the first stone and offers us a set of headers for cheap. At the mean time like I said, I will spend my money wisely other than an overpriced set of headers.

Sincity

Does anyone know of a fabricator in Asia? Perhaps, for a few of us that actually know eachother in-person, may want to pool their funds together to buy a set and ship it off to have it cloned for a short production run? Are there any legal issues that have to be dealt with?

emericr

c63newdude: I totally agree with your statement. I will await on the sideline and refuse to be gouged. Unfortunately there are plenty of C63 owners with deep pockets that do not care paying this kind of money for headers and want it now.
This is what supply and demand is. If vendors can sell at this high price and there are buyers, then more power to them.
Hopefully there will be soon new vendors who want to enter the market and price them cheaper than anyone else in order to gain market share. Once this happens you and I will be there with our $$.

Dads C63

You guys kill me.
You pay top dollar for a car(AMG) that has incredible engineering, quality and performance and want headers for the price of a GM/Ford. The header manufacturers are building hundreds of the Ford/GM headers and thats where the cost comes into play. People like Renntech and MHP build one at a time by hand. MBH just came out with theirs at a similar price as the Renntech or MHP headers and none of these three are taking advantage of us. Don't you think if there was tons of profit as you suggest one of these guys would lower the price and steal the market? Its simply just not there.

Believe it or not the performance world for the C63 is VERY small. Most owners are not interested in headers and think those of us that push these cars hard are NUTS. I accept that but we CANNOT pinch pennies when it comes to quality and performance. If you can ever get headers for $2000 and they don't perform or hold up then don't complain.

The top notch quality guys are not gouging us with the prices they offer. They are making these things one at a time by hand. That takes hours and hours of welding, pipe bending, and polishing. Don't bash the top guys for what they offer or bash those of us who have spent the dollars for engineering and testing so you can see the potential of these cars. The old saying goes you get what you pay for and this is NO different.

If you want to go fast with quality, tested, and proven performance headers then step up and pay for them. Otherwise, go back to your Ford/GM cars and get the cheaper headers. The C63 is in a class all by itself as far as performance goes and should NOT be compared to Ford/GM. The potential for this motor/car has yet to be reached.

Keep racing and be safe!!