BerBer63

So as some of you may know I purchased a set of Long-tube headers and cat-less midpipe from Brian@GTPro's new shop sometime at the end of April. I believe I had the 2nd set made by them, the first set was on his own car. I got an introductory offer, which was the biggest reason I went to Brian. When I picked them up they looked decent, especially for the price we agreed upon, which was significantly less than any competitor. The outside flange welds were rough and the inside of the primaries were not welded, just the outside. Other than that, it looked fine compared to everything else I've seen on the market.

I didn't get around to doing the install until May 19th. Prior to that, Brian offered to do the installation, but wanted $1,250 plus 2 days installation time. This car is my DD, so I wasn't excited about the price or the time needed. I made a few calls and found a few other installation shops that were willing to do it for half of GTPro's cost and in 1 day's time. In the end, I chose to go to with James@ACGSD based on his experience with 63 header installation, great reputation, fair price, and I could get the K2 tune done in-house within minutes versus having to ship out my ECU and taking 3 days time.

I drove down to SD early on the 19th from Los Angeles (280 miles roundtrip). ACG took care of the installation right away, dropped the stock headers and mid-pipe in about 2-2.5hrs time. We proceeded to bolt on the GTPro LT Headers and this is when we were surprised.

End's up, the driver's side collector was welded on improperly and per Brian "this situation was not due to neglegence on my part it was a simple issue caused by a dropped fixture and bend on the collector end plate which caused the collector to have an incorrect rake angle" at his production shop leading to this poorly constructed item. The driver's side header was pointing ~10-15 degrees towards the ground. It just looked completely wrong. The mid-pipe would no longer fit and was over 1ft. from reaching the resonator. The steering column heat shrink tube was also touching one of the primaries and was very close. I was also told that this was a complete bolt-on system, yet I wasn't given any exhaust brackets to connect the LTs to Mid-pipe. When I asked, Brian said it would just slip on and I assume he implied that it would just stay on. It didn't sound or look reassuring, but James' was ready to pick up brackets if necessary, however we never got that far. I was also never told about using new exhaust manifold gaskets and when I emailed Brian on May 19th, he said it would be "best to install new ones". It would have been nice to know this before hand because no MB parts dealer in the area had them in stock.

We put the car back on the ground and saw the collector was about ~4inches from touching the ground and just looked bad. At that point just in order to make it home the same day, I asked James to put the stock exhaust system back on and I would just return the product and get a refund.

James charged me a pro-rated installation fee ($500) because of how screwed up the situation was even though they probably worked on my car for 7 hours and they rightly deserved the full price that was agreed upon. I contacted Brian and asked for a full refund. He offered to fix the set of headers and do the installation for free this time, but I refused because 1) I'm over the idea of LT headers and would much prefer a solid down-pipe solution after seeing the whole installation; the header bolts are a PITA and a down-pipe could probably be installed by any muffler shop in less than 2 hours and 2) I've lost confidence in GTPro and would much rather not go through a 2-day installation with my car taken apart again.

In summary, Brian refunded me the money for the headers +$55 for inconvenience within a week. I'm still out $445 for the installation fees I paid on a defective part sold to me by GTPro. I share this now with the community out of principle and after being denied twice for a full refund or credit for my installation fee.

Other than that, there isn't much else to say, Brian said that ACG shouldn't have charged me for the installation and he explained some story about a past example...... I think this is poor customer service on Brian's behalf and have spoken to him via email multiple times. I know he has a good history and reviews with his x-pipe customers, so that's why I chose to purchase his headers/mid-pipe. I understand mistakes happen in production and mentioned that there could have been some quality control i.e. fitted on a block, checked the angles, etc., but I don't see how the customer is liable for installation on a defective item, which was sold to me as a guaranteed fit working piece. I thought you guys have a right to know when these experiences happen - good or bad.



Pictures:







Header with mid-pipe fitted



Header fitted with car off the lift

Brian GT PRO

My retort

We have the LT headers worked out, the first set on my car. The second set I sold to this guy here on MBW (who is just trying to stir up things and start this bash thread). Somehow one of the two welding fixtures that holds the collectors in place got bent (no one is admitting to it but I know someone at the production shop must have dropped it), and the welder did not know it had happened, the headers were built to the exact jig pattern, and customer picked up. The install day we found out that one of the collectors was off about 10 degrees. I offered to get it corrected, whatever it took to make it right. By looking at his pics I knew something was wrong, I rushed over to the production house to see what was going on, and if I could help in some way. Since the only other known good set was on my car we got under the car immediately started taking measurements, and comparing against the welding fixtures, and we found the issue. Guy asks for his money back, I agree, no problem, our fault, but if he would agree I would like to make it right so, I offered a set of replacement headers and my shop would do the install for free, AND rent him a car for his trouble (and some of this happening AFTER we returned his money). He again declined, said, he was done with us and our "poorly constructed products" so we gave him a full refund ON DEMAND, and $55.00 to go have a meal on us as a gesture of "good will". I will go on record to say that I have YET to see ONE single Mfg. pay for labor to remove or replace a defective or broken product, not one single mfg..I have had clutches come apart on me, that I felt were defective and the mfg replaced them, but they never paid us one single penny. I brought ACG into the conversation with this guy here, as we JUST had a defective product sent to us by James at ACG a CF rear diffuser, we sent high resolution images to him, and he did not even want to refund the money for the part, we had to argue about getting refunded just on the part, let alone try and collect any labor for removal installation, re installation of the customers parts (Joe_money here on MBW was the customer on this deal), was ACG going to refund labor to us for this? heck no.. I have been building world class products for over 20 years, I have 26 magazine articles to my name, and I hold a few world records with my headers in different markets, and have flowed over 1426hp to the ground on a set of my headers for over 8 years without ONE SINGLE issue or crack/failure..and regarding the gaskets? new is always better, but the gaskets can be reused, it's up the user/installer, it's not something I claimed to be included with the kit..it was a simple suggestion if he wanted the install first class. I then get an e-mail saying he's going to start a thread to bash me for my poor customer service??...wow..I feel I have acted in a professional manner, I refunded him in CASH immediately, so there was no situation of denying him a refund at ANY point, this is simply untrue.

Sincity

Brian,

Not trying to stir-up anything. But looking at this picture (torn pipe), and what happened to the jig, you should probably change fabricator. It is obvious that there is a QC issue from that shop. If the shop wishes to continue to do business with you after this debacle, they really need to make it up to you. With that said, I can't wait to see what dyno figures your LTs put out. More competition is great for all of us.

Brian GT PRO

Ya know Sin,.. I think you and the guys know me well enough, I'm just trying my best at all times, no matter what, and yes after this debacle..I've already been meeting with other production shops, trust me, this type of thing burns me up...Up till this point these guys have been great, I've not had any issues, and like I said above I've had a set of headers living at 40+lbs of boost at 1426hp for 8 years, no cracks, no issues..The price of my made in the USA headers (I refuse to go to China) is going to **** off a lot of shops trust me, and power output will be right there with everyone else, there is no "magic", it is simple math, tube length, tube diameter, collector design, merge pinnacle, and choke points, math=power.

Sincity

I have no doubt that you will let this happen again and I'm glad we have a vendor like you on board. GL!

Chubbs: Don't lose faith in your LT search. Since this is your DD, the easiest solution would have been to have Brian correct the header and put you in a rental from SD so that you can drive around while it gets corrected. This would have aleviated the labor issue with AGCSD. But that is in hindsight. Good luck to you, too!

Jae Duk

James does good work. A lot of people can vouch for him. Brian does good work a lot of people can vouch for him as well. Honestly, I have not bought anything from Brian, but he still consistantly answers my questions via PM. As you have stated he DID correct the problem by refunding you the money AND giving you extra for dinner. $55 dinner is a good dinner. These manufacturing defects DO happen and he offered to pay for your rental and give you free install. I have never heard of anyone getting labor refunded because they bought something some where else and it had manufacturing defects. Honestly, what I would do is I wuold've taken his offer to do the install for free since he was giving you that offer along with a free car rental while your car is in the shop.

Raleighc63

What records do you have with your headers? Can't say that I have seen any. I'm sure you have made plenty of money off the mbworld users being a sponsor on this site. It's obvious that the problem from the headers caused additional expenses to be incurred by the buyer. You should have insurance to cover mistakes like this or ask your supplier to write a check or you will find a new vendor. If that doesn't work then you should come out of pocket with the refund. The longer this thread goes the more you risk pushing away potential customers.

Sathinas

Sucks about the headers, but damn! You can eat off the bottom of that car!

_AMG_

Sucks to hear about your misfortune. I have nothing bad to say about GT Pro, but Maybe you should go with MHP or even EVOSPORT headers later on down the line. Ive heard great things about them. Just a suggestion.

C63newdude

I feel sorry for the OP about his situation but I wouldn't consider this bad customer service. It is clear to me that Brian needs to work the issues(quality control) before releasing the product but it would be very unfair to discredit Brian for all the hard work and the competitive prices that he is trying to bring to the community.

From what I have seen on the pictures the headers have room for improvement but I have total faith on Brian because I know he is commited into the community.

I am 50-50, I feel bad for the customer but I encourage Brian to keep going on this header project. Just my .2c

14cue

I couldn't agree more. ***** happens and by the sound of it, the vendor did try to do everything he can to make it right. I don't think it is reasonable to expect a refund for an attempted install done at a different shop esp when an offer to correct the problem with a new install + rental car was denied!

I have far worse experiences and believe you me, I was never offered even close to what the OP got.

With that said, I also don't have a problem with the OP's decision to decline on the vendors product but I think the vendor did do everything he can to make it right.

bhamg

I was in a similar situation with my M5, only it cost me almost 2k extra that I didn't count on spending (for double installation time and custom fabrication) to get the job done. The vendor/manufacturer made it up to me in product and really went to the wall to make me whole. Whereas I don't blame Chubbs at all for feeling the way he does, I do feel Brian made a really incredible offer, much like what happened in my case, and one that I would have been happy to take him up on. That would have been a win-win in my book. The big difference obviously, is that as the saying goes, it takes two to tango...I wanted to work with the vendor to find a solution and Chubbs didn't/doesn't. Again, passing no judgement here...

JM

I personally think Brian did not do anything wrong here but rather you are just whining and being immature.

Everything has defects and its no one's fault it would only be brian's fault if he did not pay you back and try to solve the issue.

Brian offered to get you a new set of headers and cover the installation because you paid another company to install it for you.

He offered you a free installation to cover your payment of installation, he offered you a new set of headers for the mistake, also he offered to rent you a car for your downtime.

So in the end if you took his offer who would have a loss? I dont see that you would but rather Brian would have taken a few hits but its worth it for a business and hope you would be a returning customer or help him out with word of mouth advertising.

Hell, he even bought you a nice dinner....

What else do you want from him? He covered ALL YOUR LOSS...

JL_C63

I'm sorry that happened to you chubbs032, I think the most important thing now is solve the problem, If brian is telling the truth, I think he is acting in an right way. But I think that he must see what happened with the headers, because it´s very important to keep your costumers very happy and that such things do not happen.

In my case, I´m from Venezuela, if this happens to me, I would have a serious problem to return the headers, because in some cases we paid more in customs and air freight, than the costs of the piece.

P.D.: My english is not very good.

Sincity

Chubbs: If you got a great deal on the headers, and I'm sure Brian will make it right again with the same offer since this blew up on mbworld, I would make ammends and continue to have the headers done at his place. This way, you will not be out the original install fee @ AGCSD and come up with nothing. In the end, you still win.

jvanbrecht

I have nothing to state about the products quality, however, your thread topic is about a poor experience. Based on what I read (picture warning alert in the topic would also be nice, I tether alot...), you had a problem, they offered to fix the problem, you declined, they refunded your money plus an additional small sum for the inconvenience. You went to 2 different companies for the purchase and installation, you cannot expect company A to reimburse you for Company B's work. I am willing to bet that had you had Company A who you purchased the product form do the installation, had you not been happy, would most likely have refunded both the purchase and installation costs (not guaranteed, but possible)

Lets use the Airlines for an example, when you book a flight from point A to point B, through an airline that has a stopover somewhere, and your flight is delayed resulting in you missing the connecting flight, the airline will book you on the next available flight. However, if you book the flights yourself, from Point A to the Connecting flights airport, and then book a separate ticket from the connecting flight airport to Point B, your destination, and your initial flight is delayed, guess what, your SOL, the airline will not help you and you will have to purchase another ticket. People sometimes do this on international flights because it works out cheaper, but the risk is greater.

That sounds like excellent customer service to me.

bluejae

sorry for the bad luck with the headers, but there are a few defects in every product line out there... i see it as you took a chance on taking the 2nd set of headers and the deal looked good to you because you got a discount on it as well... but i agree with some of the posters here that what brian offered you back for the defect was more than enough to make you whole...

sure you lost some time, built up some frustration because things didn't happen in 1 day like you planned, but there are delays and more delays around every corner and it's all about how each party handles it...

bluejae

the refund for the headers was given plus a little more already...

or are you talking about the labor costs the OP incurred at the other shop?

JonMBZ

Sounds like you are being too thrifty there are plenty of shops around here that could have done the install including renntech and evosport. If you choose to drive all the way to SD to save money then you are doing it at you own risk. It's not their fault you took that drive. He offered free installation after this whole thing so $1250 just to keep you happy. These are expensive machines and expensive to mod. Using multiple sources for parts and installation is always a bad idea now it seems you are out 500 either because you were being stubborn or you are having buyers remorse.

Militia

Maybe there's more to the story, but from the way Brian treated you -- it seems like rather excellent customer service. Taking this situation from face value, I'd start a thread praising his efforts to satisfy the customer instead.

Good luck, hope it works out! Do keep us updated.

sjhugh

I can see both side of this issue. Unfortunately things can and do occasionally go wrong, thought that alone wouldn’t turn me off dealing with a manufacturer. Personally I would have taken the offer to have the product corrected along with free installation. Still each to their own and the customer is entitled to walk away from the deal and express their disappointment.

The think the customer service offered was adequate, the only thing I noted was:


When I had problems with my HRE’s, not only was I offered replacements with revised offsets, I was also offered reimbursement for all cost involved for tyre installation and subsequent stripping, shipping fees and additional labour requirements to have the rims measured up against the car, photos taken and so on. I guess some manufacturers do reimburse all the way.

.

BerBer63

Lesson learned, I'll avoid trying any new products in the future until they have been tried by several forum members first that way I'm not part of the process and lose out because I personally don't like to try installations twice.

MB_Forever

+1

Brian, your products carry a great deal of reputation with it, and if your fabricators don't work as hard as you do to make sure every product is as good as it can be, then your hard work of building your reputation will be washed away. It takes a long time to build good reputation but only a couple of bad incidents to destroy it. You've had excellent reputation here on mbworld thus far and seems like you go to great lengths to make sure customers are happy, but if I were you, I would make sure the fabricators do the same. A simple quality control test after the headers were built could've prevented this in my opinion.

I'm not trying to stir up any trouble.... I respect and enjoy your posts and hope you and the OP move past this with no hard feelings.


A simple quality control

gravedgr

callmiro

Discount on the headers re-couped on the install

2 days and $1250 for a header install is retarded.....

But then again...seeing how bent and cocked up they are I could understand how it would take you 2 days to straighten them out