Latest mods to UK C63 - KW V3's & Brabus B63 tune
07-28-2010, 07:56 PM
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AMG GT-S & GLE 63S Coupe
Latest mods to UK C63 - KW V3's & Brabus B63 tune
Firstly, apologies that this is going to be a long one and a little reminder as to why I have opted to change the suspension!
I'm on my second C63 which is a P31 and as such has the softer suspension set up. My first one had P30 which had the stiffer suspension and although it had a much harder ride, it was perfectly acceptable compromise for the wonderfully flat handling that it offered.
So, I had to do something and I was going to simply fit the official AMG suspension from the P30 but when this came in at nearly £1,500, I thought I could get better for the money. So I spent more...well, 50% more, and got what seems to be regarded by most of you guys in the US as the single best modification you can do to a C63 - KW V3 Coilovers.
The question is...what are they really like and how have I got them set up??
My first drive...
After what seemed like an eternity waiting for the Coilovers to be manufactured (they're all made to order and it took nearly 4 weeks!), last week I had them fitted to the car and went on my merry way with the standard KW-suggested settings.
When I finally got the car on the road......WOW!
These KW's have transformed the cars handling. It is FLAT...I mean NO body roll at all at reasonable speeds. I've never driven a car that maintains such strong body control over the dips, crests and rough surfaces that feature all over our ***** UK roads. It has no bump steer and the suspension appears to have magically given it much better turn-in and the ability to grip harder for longer.
It's simply much too easy to drive much too fast.... it just seems like the car can cover any surface without being deflected and it simply had everything that I dared throw at it covered.
However, it's not perfect....not yet anyway. For normal driving and at low speeds, KW's suggested settings are VERY firm. Not bouncy or crashy...no, the suspension is too well damped and controlled for that...but just plain FIRM. You hit a bump, you feel it. You feel it once and thats it...but it's every bump no matter how small.
So, here comes the best bit....and this I am really excited about.
You will not believe this guys as I'm still in awe as to what I had arranged for me last weekend!
A friend of mine (who practically visits the Nurburgring every other week) happens to know a lot of people in the European car industry and one of these people is a guy called Uli Baumert. Uli is a freelance race engineer who is based and has premises on the outskirts of the Nurburgring in Germany.
My friend arranged for me to go out to meet Uli last weekend after I had my suspension fitted for him to set it up properly!
It gets better though!
As it happens, Uli is the main man hired by AMG whenever they need development miles to be carried out in their cars and he has helped develop all of AMG's recent cars including the C63, SL65 Black, CLK63 Black and the AMG versions of the SL, CL and S Class! The only one he hasn't done was the SLS which was done a lot more secretively - i.e. nobody outside of AMG!
He also works from AMGs premises based at the ring to adjust any of the car's set-up during his testing, and as an example of how much he does, he and the two people that work for him did over 100k development test miles in the C63 before it was launched. His normal week is around 1000 miles round the ring plus even more on normal roads so he knows the place well!
So, what a surreal position to find myself in...having my car set-up and then being driven around the 'ring by the actual guy who did the development miles in my car!
He was able to make adjustements just by feeling how the damper responded in his hand when the car was up on his ramps - now that's experience!
When I drove it after Uli had finished, I couldn't believe it - the harshness and bumpiness that was there from the over-stiff original set-up was gone and, whilst still hard, it was compliant and relatively comfortable.
The handling also stayed resolutely flat and when Uli took me round the 'ring, he literally rang rings around everyone....not a single car passed us! We even overtook the ring taxi! It was brilliant was seeing just what my car could do when driven properly and when I drove it, although I had no idea what I was doing in comparison, I was just delighted by how it felt!
So, what's the not so good news?
Well, all of the above relates to changes he made on the front suspension only (yes, that alone made so much difference). He felt he couldn't get the rears to behave the way he wanted! He also didn't have the time to remove them fully from the car which is required on the C63 to adjust the top rebound damping (it's inaccessible when fitted to the car). So the back end remains too firm at present.
What Uli is going to do is have my car back (oh no...not another excuse for a trip to the 'ring??) . Very fortunately he also knows the guys at KW very well (not surprising given AMG use KW's on their Black Series models) and he is going to send my rear dampers to them to be re-valved to his specification. 
So, is this really needed?? Well, when I got back to UK with our horrendous roads, I could feel the back end is just soooo stiff in comparison and lets a lot of vibration through the body...it wasn't that noticeable on Europe's finer roads but the minute I drove onto a British motorway, I could tell that Uli's analysis was 100% correct!
At the minute I am still blown away at what happened last weekend as you just couldn't buy this sort of thing (indeed, Uli charged me just €100 for about 4 hours work!) and I am very grateful to my friend who set this all up for me. My car is about 80% where it needs to be but I know that once Uli has finished with it, I'm going to have a C63 set up like no other.
So, two weeks Friday I'm going back out to Germany to leave my car with Uli for a couple of weeks to get the rear dampers re-valved and finely tune the whole suspension!
I'm really sorry that I have no pictures this time but I was just too busy being excited about what was going on but I promise I'll take a few when I go out again in a couple of weeks and the whole surreal experience isn't so much of a surprise!
Once my car is properly set up I will post up my optimal KW V3 settings. I know before I got the V3's I was really worried about what setting I should use so hopefully this will help anyone else who is either considering KW V3's or wants to make their existing units perform better.
Now....for more power. BRABUS!
It was a busy week for me last week as I also had the new Brabus B63 kit fitted which is the cheaper of the two Brabus tunes (the more expensive one is the B63S kit and that has race cats for an additional £6,000...crazy money!)
Now, before I had the Brabus kit fitted I put my car on a Dyno-Dynamics rolling road and my totally standard P31 put out an incredible 506.9bhp (415bhp at the wheels with 18% transmission losses). Thats a full 20bhp more than AMG claim and confirms my thoughts that my car feels significantly quicker than the official 30bhp increase that is quoted between it and my old P30 (457bhp) model.
In fact, the guys who dyno'd it said it was the most powerful 'stock' '63 engined car they had ever dyno'd and put out more than even the SL's in standard tune. Those forged internals must be worth something after all!
Now, after having the Brabus kit fitted, my butt-dyno definitely tells me it's quicker - where before it just felt bloody fast across the whole rev range from about 2000rpm upwards, it can now add really strong 'thrust you back into the seat' top-end pull. It's very reminiscent of how my previous BMW M6 would pull at the top end but with the added bonus of much stronger torque lower down.
I'm having it dyno'd again next weekend so we'll see if it's a 'real' increase over the standard 507bhp or just all in my mind and I'll stick up the before and after dyno charts so you can all make your own minds up!
I'm on my second C63 which is a P31 and as such has the softer suspension set up. My first one had P30 which had the stiffer suspension and although it had a much harder ride, it was perfectly acceptable compromise for the wonderfully flat handling that it offered.
So, I had to do something and I was going to simply fit the official AMG suspension from the P30 but when this came in at nearly £1,500, I thought I could get better for the money. So I spent more...well, 50% more, and got what seems to be regarded by most of you guys in the US as the single best modification you can do to a C63 - KW V3 Coilovers.
The question is...what are they really like and how have I got them set up??
My first drive...
After what seemed like an eternity waiting for the Coilovers to be manufactured (they're all made to order and it took nearly 4 weeks!), last week I had them fitted to the car and went on my merry way with the standard KW-suggested settings.
When I finally got the car on the road......WOW!
These KW's have transformed the cars handling. It is FLAT...I mean NO body roll at all at reasonable speeds. I've never driven a car that maintains such strong body control over the dips, crests and rough surfaces that feature all over our ***** UK roads. It has no bump steer and the suspension appears to have magically given it much better turn-in and the ability to grip harder for longer.
It's simply much too easy to drive much too fast.... it just seems like the car can cover any surface without being deflected and it simply had everything that I dared throw at it covered.
However, it's not perfect....not yet anyway. For normal driving and at low speeds, KW's suggested settings are VERY firm. Not bouncy or crashy...no, the suspension is too well damped and controlled for that...but just plain FIRM. You hit a bump, you feel it. You feel it once and thats it...but it's every bump no matter how small.
So, here comes the best bit....and this I am really excited about.
You will not believe this guys as I'm still in awe as to what I had arranged for me last weekend!
A friend of mine (who practically visits the Nurburgring every other week) happens to know a lot of people in the European car industry and one of these people is a guy called Uli Baumert. Uli is a freelance race engineer who is based and has premises on the outskirts of the Nurburgring in Germany.
My friend arranged for me to go out to meet Uli last weekend after I had my suspension fitted for him to set it up properly!
It gets better though!
As it happens, Uli is the main man hired by AMG whenever they need development miles to be carried out in their cars and he has helped develop all of AMG's recent cars including the C63, SL65 Black, CLK63 Black and the AMG versions of the SL, CL and S Class! The only one he hasn't done was the SLS which was done a lot more secretively - i.e. nobody outside of AMG!
He also works from AMGs premises based at the ring to adjust any of the car's set-up during his testing, and as an example of how much he does, he and the two people that work for him did over 100k development test miles in the C63 before it was launched. His normal week is around 1000 miles round the ring plus even more on normal roads so he knows the place well!
So, what a surreal position to find myself in...having my car set-up and then being driven around the 'ring by the actual guy who did the development miles in my car!
He was able to make adjustements just by feeling how the damper responded in his hand when the car was up on his ramps - now that's experience!
When I drove it after Uli had finished, I couldn't believe it - the harshness and bumpiness that was there from the over-stiff original set-up was gone and, whilst still hard, it was compliant and relatively comfortable.
The handling also stayed resolutely flat and when Uli took me round the 'ring, he literally rang rings around everyone....not a single car passed us! We even overtook the ring taxi! It was brilliant was seeing just what my car could do when driven properly and when I drove it, although I had no idea what I was doing in comparison, I was just delighted by how it felt!
So, what's the not so good news?
Well, all of the above relates to changes he made on the front suspension only (yes, that alone made so much difference). He felt he couldn't get the rears to behave the way he wanted! He also didn't have the time to remove them fully from the car which is required on the C63 to adjust the top rebound damping (it's inaccessible when fitted to the car). So the back end remains too firm at present.
What Uli is going to do is have my car back (oh no...not another excuse for a trip to the 'ring??
) . Very fortunately he also knows the guys at KW very well (not surprising given AMG use KW's on their Black Series models) and he is going to send my rear dampers to them to be re-valved to his specification. So, is this really needed?? Well, when I got back to UK with our horrendous roads, I could feel the back end is just soooo stiff in comparison and lets a lot of vibration through the body...it wasn't that noticeable on Europe's finer roads but the minute I drove onto a British motorway, I could tell that Uli's analysis was 100% correct!
At the minute I am still blown away at what happened last weekend as you just couldn't buy this sort of thing (indeed, Uli charged me just €100 for about 4 hours work!) and I am very grateful to my friend who set this all up for me. My car is about 80% where it needs to be but I know that once Uli has finished with it, I'm going to have a C63 set up like no other.
So, two weeks Friday I'm going back out to Germany to leave my car with Uli for a couple of weeks to get the rear dampers re-valved and finely tune the whole suspension!
I'm really sorry that I have no pictures this time but I was just too busy being excited about what was going on but I promise I'll take a few when I go out again in a couple of weeks and the whole surreal experience isn't so much of a surprise!
Once my car is properly set up I will post up my optimal KW V3 settings. I know before I got the V3's I was really worried about what setting I should use so hopefully this will help anyone else who is either considering KW V3's or wants to make their existing units perform better.
Now....for more power. BRABUS!
It was a busy week for me last week as I also had the new Brabus B63 kit fitted which is the cheaper of the two Brabus tunes (the more expensive one is the B63S kit and that has race cats for an additional £6,000...crazy money!)
Now, before I had the Brabus kit fitted I put my car on a Dyno-Dynamics rolling road and my totally standard P31 put out an incredible 506.9bhp (415bhp at the wheels with 18% transmission losses). Thats a full 20bhp more than AMG claim and confirms my thoughts that my car feels significantly quicker than the official 30bhp increase that is quoted between it and my old P30 (457bhp) model.
In fact, the guys who dyno'd it said it was the most powerful 'stock' '63 engined car they had ever dyno'd and put out more than even the SL's in standard tune. Those forged internals must be worth something after all!
Now, after having the Brabus kit fitted, my butt-dyno definitely tells me it's quicker - where before it just felt bloody fast across the whole rev range from about 2000rpm upwards, it can now add really strong 'thrust you back into the seat' top-end pull. It's very reminiscent of how my previous BMW M6 would pull at the top end but with the added bonus of much stronger torque lower down.
I'm having it dyno'd again next weekend so we'll see if it's a 'real' increase over the standard 507bhp or just all in my mind and I'll stick up the before and after dyno charts so you can all make your own minds up!
07-29-2010, 06:09 AM
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Yes I would....if I knew what they were lol! Uli didn't speak very good English so I'm not sure whether the clicks he told me are from full hard or full soft. I will check at the weekend and update.
TBH though - wait until I have the confirmed settings for the rear as this is noticeablly harder at the moment and needs to be bought more into line with the fronts.
TBH though - wait until I have the confirmed settings for the rear as this is noticeablly harder at the moment and needs to be bought more into line with the fronts.
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07-29-2010, 11:07 AM
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07-29-2010, 02:41 PM
#10
Yes I would....if I knew what they were lol! Uli didn't speak very good English so I'm not sure whether the clicks he told me are from full hard or full soft. I will check at the weekend and update.
TBH though - wait until I have the confirmed settings for the rear as this is noticeablly harder at the moment and needs to be bought more into line with the fronts.
TBH though - wait until I have the confirmed settings for the rear as this is noticeablly harder at the moment and needs to be bought more into line with the fronts.
09-08-2010, 08:54 AM
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C 63 fully loaded
So, any news? I´m also very interested in getting the v3 coilovers and with the added knowledge from you it is even more interesting!
My car is equipped with the P30-suspension and being very hard in bumps I still have alot of body roll (tested, by me, at the Nürburgring...)
My car is equipped with the P30-suspension and being very hard in bumps I still have alot of body roll (tested, by me, at the Nürburgring...)
09-08-2010, 09:07 AM
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Great write up, thanks for sharing.
What horsepower increase is claimed for the B63 kit on the P31 pack?
Looking forward to looking at the dyno results as well.
What horsepower increase is claimed for the B63 kit on the P31 pack?
Looking forward to looking at the dyno results as well.
.
09-08-2010, 03:03 PM
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E63
He already dynod but why are you so worried about what other tuners do? Ive never seen a company so worried about other peoples prouducts before theres something not right there.
10-04-2010, 09:16 PM
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C63 w/p30; MHP ECU tune+header+mids+CF air intake duct+Akrapovic+wide body kit+ Vorsteiner VS110
Could you post your dyno result/chart after Brabus tune? of course, KW V3 set up for C63 please!
10-05-2010, 06:01 PM
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AMG GT-S & GLE 63S Coupe
Sorry guys, not been on here much lately but I haven't had my car for most of the summer.
Basically, it's been out in Germany with AMG's freelance development driver who has been doing some work to it including....
Engine / Exhaust Changes
All the above engine changes have been chosen to keep the car looking and sounding as close to stock as possible whilst ultimately performing better.
On the whole, it would be very difficult to spot any modifications on the car but as yet I haven't had chance to dyno it following the headers, exhaust and Carlsson remap modifications. I don't really need to...it FEELS faster and with no effort at all got an indicated 193mph on the autobahn and it was still pulling. I ran out of ***** before the car ran out of power!
I'd chosen to do the above following my disappointment with the Brabus kit which I had removed and received a full refund for. For those who haven't read it, click the link below to read my thread showing what the Brabus kit did (or rather didn't do) including the dyno results...
Brabus B63 kit vs. P31 - Read!
Here are a few photo's from when the exhaust work was done....
Here are the cats that were to go on the car - 200 cell race cats made by HJS (apparently a very good and highly respected make in the father land)
In order to get the exhaust off the headers, this is how they did it (effective, yes...concerning seeing someone standing on my engine, yes!)
Now, this is where it gets interesting. Most places would simply weld the new cats to the existing exhaust.
Not this time....they actually removed the internals from my existing 750-cell cats (yes, you read that right, the C63 has 750 cell primary cats and when I saw them I couldn't believe that any airflow could get past the amount of restriction in them...the results of this process will prove just how restrictive these cats are).
Once they'd cleared out the stock cat casings, they then proceeded to make the new 200-cell cat internals fit into that same stock AMG cat casing.
Cutting the cats (note the lack of health and safety here)...
The remains of the stock cats...
New cats inserted into stock casing...
New cats are now sealed inside the casing...
New race cats in stock housing - once they're weathered and dirty again, you wouldn't be able to tell!
Stock vs. new headers....and yes, I know they're normal log-type headers and not long tube but I wanted it as close to stock looking and sounding as possible. These are exactly the same spec as CLK63 Black Series stock items.
KW V3 Settings
After much deliberation, I have decided to go for a setting more suited to the street than the track. Whilst this means it may feel a bit soft on track, it's still as good on track as most other road-biased cars but on the street, it's just perfect.
The car seems to perform best with a softer compression setting to keep the ride compliant and the wheels in contact with the road. The rebound damping is set in the middle which is sufficient to keep the rate of roll in check.
Ultimately, my car rides a touch harder than a P30 but it actually feels more comfortable thanks to the dampers' ability to deal with a bump in one well controlled movement.
Handling wise, it has slightly less roll than a P30 and a LOT less roll than a stock or P31. Not only this, but it doesn't get deflected by mid-corner bumps like a P30 and you can push a lot harder as the rate of roll is much more tightly controlled.
Front Settings:
Bottom (compression with a range of 14 clicks): 8 clicks back from full hard (turn the adjuster fully clockwise to get it on full hard and then click it back 8 times)
Top (rebound with a range of 19 clicks): 10 clicks back from full hard (turn the adjuster fully clockwise to get it on full hard and then click it back 10 times)
Rear Settings:
Bottom (compression with a range of 14 quarter turns): 8 quarter turns back from full hard (turn the adjuster fully clockwise to get it on full hard and then move it back 6 quarter turns)
Top (rebound with a range of 18 clicks): 9 clicks back from full hard (turn the adjuster fully clockwise to get it on full hard and then click it back 9 times)
I hope the above information helps and just finish off, here's a few more pictures of my car going round the Nurburgring in the quest for the ideal setting. Enjoy....
Basically, it's been out in Germany with AMG's freelance development driver who has been doing some work to it including....
- Final set-up of the KW V3's on and around the Nurburgring
- Corner weight balancing to get the weighting of the car even across the diagonal axis
- New headers - basically the same design and spec as fitted to the CLK63 Black Series so are 75mm instead of the stock 52mm
- New 200-cell race primary cats which have been fitted inside the original AMG cat housing to keep it looking stock
- Carlsson engine management
Engine / Exhaust Changes
All the above engine changes have been chosen to keep the car looking and sounding as close to stock as possible whilst ultimately performing better.
On the whole, it would be very difficult to spot any modifications on the car but as yet I haven't had chance to dyno it following the headers, exhaust and Carlsson remap modifications. I don't really need to...it FEELS faster and with no effort at all got an indicated 193mph on the autobahn and it was still pulling. I ran out of ***** before the car ran out of power!
I'd chosen to do the above following my disappointment with the Brabus kit which I had removed and received a full refund for. For those who haven't read it, click the link below to read my thread showing what the Brabus kit did (or rather didn't do) including the dyno results...
Brabus B63 kit vs. P31 - Read!
Here are a few photo's from when the exhaust work was done....
Here are the cats that were to go on the car - 200 cell race cats made by HJS (apparently a very good and highly respected make in the father land)
In order to get the exhaust off the headers, this is how they did it (effective, yes...concerning seeing someone standing on my engine, yes!)
Now, this is where it gets interesting. Most places would simply weld the new cats to the existing exhaust.
Not this time....they actually removed the internals from my existing 750-cell cats (yes, you read that right, the C63 has 750 cell primary cats and when I saw them I couldn't believe that any airflow could get past the amount of restriction in them...the results of this process will prove just how restrictive these cats are).
Once they'd cleared out the stock cat casings, they then proceeded to make the new 200-cell cat internals fit into that same stock AMG cat casing.
Cutting the cats (note the lack of health and safety here
)...The remains of the stock cats...
New cats inserted into stock casing...
New cats are now sealed inside the casing...
New race cats in stock housing - once they're weathered and dirty again, you wouldn't be able to tell!
Stock vs. new headers....and yes, I know they're normal log-type headers and not long tube but I wanted it as close to stock looking and sounding as possible. These are exactly the same spec as CLK63 Black Series stock items.
KW V3 Settings
After much deliberation, I have decided to go for a setting more suited to the street than the track. Whilst this means it may feel a bit soft on track, it's still as good on track as most other road-biased cars but on the street, it's just perfect.
The car seems to perform best with a softer compression setting to keep the ride compliant and the wheels in contact with the road. The rebound damping is set in the middle which is sufficient to keep the rate of roll in check.
Ultimately, my car rides a touch harder than a P30 but it actually feels more comfortable thanks to the dampers' ability to deal with a bump in one well controlled movement.
Handling wise, it has slightly less roll than a P30 and a LOT less roll than a stock or P31. Not only this, but it doesn't get deflected by mid-corner bumps like a P30 and you can push a lot harder as the rate of roll is much more tightly controlled.
Front Settings:
Bottom (compression with a range of 14 clicks): 8 clicks back from full hard (turn the adjuster fully clockwise to get it on full hard and then click it back 8 times)
Top (rebound with a range of 19 clicks): 10 clicks back from full hard (turn the adjuster fully clockwise to get it on full hard and then click it back 10 times)
Rear Settings:
Bottom (compression with a range of 14 quarter turns): 8 quarter turns back from full hard (turn the adjuster fully clockwise to get it on full hard and then move it back 6 quarter turns)
Top (rebound with a range of 18 clicks): 9 clicks back from full hard (turn the adjuster fully clockwise to get it on full hard and then click it back 9 times)
I hope the above information helps and just finish off, here's a few more pictures of my car going round the Nurburgring in the quest for the ideal setting. Enjoy....
10-05-2010, 06:10 PM
#18
This is such a great thread!
I love what you did with your exhaust work. If I could find an exhaust shop to do the race cat mod, I would. Also, can you locate the part numbers for the CLK63 BS headers? I wonder if we can order those in the U.S.?
Your build looks very cool.
I love what you did with your exhaust work. If I could find an exhaust shop to do the race cat mod, I would. Also, can you locate the part numbers for the CLK63 BS headers? I wonder if we can order those in the U.S.?
Your build looks very cool.
10-05-2010, 06:14 PM
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They're not the actual CLK63 Black series headers - they won't fit as things like the steering column are in different places. They are the same spec though with the same design where it meets the engine and the same diameter.
10-05-2010, 07:07 PM
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There is no brand...it's custom made by an exhaust fabricator in Germany who basically do nothing (and I mean nothing) else other than make exhausts. As the guy who is helping me to tune and set-up my car works for AMG (well, he's a freelance race engineer who AMG use the services of for all their development driving), he knows the right people to send my car to for these things.
I've got to say though...it wasn't cheap! The manifolds and cats came to €3,500...not sure how this compares to other offerings in the States?
I've got to say though...it wasn't cheap! The manifolds and cats came to €3,500...not sure how this compares to other offerings in the States?
10-05-2010, 08:11 PM
#23
There is no brand...it's custom made by an exhaust fabricator in Germany who basically do nothing (and I mean nothing) else other than make exhausts. As the guy who is helping me to tune and set-up my car works for AMG (well, he's a freelance race engineer who AMG use the services of for all their development driving), he knows the right people to send my car to for these things.
I've got to say though...it wasn't cheap! The manifolds and cats came to €3,500...not sure how this compares to other offerings in the States?
I've got to say though...it wasn't cheap! The manifolds and cats came to €3,500...not sure how this compares to other offerings in the States?
Well, it seems pretty comparable to aftermarket exhaust manifolds, mid-pipe, cat work here in the states. Although, yes it's very expensive. But, custom made is usually more money. But, LT's probably make more power for the money.
10-05-2010, 08:41 PM
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C63 w/p30; MHP ECU tune+header+mids+CF air intake duct+Akrapovic+wide body kit+ Vorsteiner VS110
What a great thread about C63 mod! Very inspiring! Thanks a lot!
When are you going to do the dyno run? Can't wait to see the final result!
Based upon the pictures in Nurburgring, what's set-up for your lowdown?
When are you going to do the dyno run? Can't wait to see the final result!
Based upon the pictures in Nurburgring, what's set-up for your lowdown?
10-06-2010, 06:05 AM
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2 Posts
G55 & SLK55
I love threads like these, what your car now needs is some carbon exterior trim like side mirrors, a CF front lip like VAETH and a CF hood ( painted in body colour )
