ghostbusters

Heard rumors that Kleemann does NOT cover (in terms of warranty) their K4 products, but Carlsson comes with a full 3 year warranty (which overrides the original MB warranty). Not too sure about that. Any thoughts guys?

Cory @ Kleemann

Rumor, if you're referring to the KLEEMANN parts, and not the entire car. KLEEMANN's warranty covers our parts for one year, unlimited mileage, but does not extend to the rest of the car. Some dealers, (depending on your relationship with them) will still cover modified cars as long as the failure in question doesn't have any relation to the aftermarket part.

c32AMG-DTM

Cory, good info - thank you. Hardware is pretty straightforward, I think; can you explain how tuning (i.e. software) is warrantied by KLEEMANN, if applicable?

Separately, to address the OP's point - no, Carlsson isn't the only one - several MB/AMG tuners offer warranty coverage. Typically, this is to make up for lost coverage from the manufacturer for the specific modifications performed. Usually, if warranty is important to you, you'll find that sort of thing from the bigger tuning organizations - Brabus, Carlsson, Renntech, Kleemann, et. al. Smaller tuning companies seem to offer little to no defined coverage - but are usually a lower-cost alternative for like-hardware and/or tuning.

Cory @ Kleemann

Software is a bit different, as there's not really a way one can warrant something intangible like software. Typically, software either works or it doesn't. With that being said, if there's some drivability problem with one of our files, we'll do everything we can to fix it, and are usually successful, but in the off chance someone isn't happy with our software, we're happy to return the ECU to stock, and issue a refund, minus shipping costs.

ghostbusters

Thanks for your reply Cory and C32 AMG. From here on out, this might go a little off topic

From my understanding, Carlsson CK63 S kit (565 bhp and 683.91 Nm) covers the entire car for a full 3 years, unlike Kleemann's 1 year warranty for the specific parts.

And no offense to Cory or Kleemann, but the Kleemann tuning company that once operated in Malaysia (that's where I'm at) had to be closed down due to numerous issues with their tuned up cars blowing their engines or the parts not performing as well as people had hoped. Recently however, they've opened up a new branch and a mate of mine went over to had his C230 (W204) tuned up, but only came back with complaints. So, I'm a little skeptical about stepping into their workshop.

I came up with this post because I'm considering of purchasing a C63 AMG, but like all car enthusiasts, I would love to tune it up for exclusivity purposes.

Kleemann's performance parts are indeed offering serious amount of power (K4's 580 bhp and 685 Nm), but I rarely see people tune it up any more than to K2 (555 bhp and 670 Nm). I'm referring specifically to youtube videos and the fact that most people on this forum with the Kleemann tune haven't gone past K2, and that is to avoid voiding their factory warranty.

As for Brabus, they are supplying their B63 S kit (523 bhp and 650 Nm), and they offer only 1 year parts warranty and not the whole vehicle. I've contacted their reputable Malaysian branch and that's all they are providing at the moment.

Renntech is offering Pkg 3 (555 bhp and 697.45 Nm). Unfortunately, they are not replying to my emails. Also, I doubt that they have a dealer in Malaysia or in Singapore, so I'm not certain about the warranty.

Thus, from the way I'm seeing it, Carlsson CK63 S kit, provides a substantial (if not highest; 565 bhp +10 from Renntech) amount of power and torque (second best; 505 lb-ft -10 lb-ft from Renntech), and it's covered for up to 3 years.

Is that the way to go? Personally, I believe so, but I'm really open to comments.

dodger63

I'm no expert in this area but if u modify a car in anyway your insurance and manufactures warrantee can be null and void. If u put non oem wheels on your car and crash the insurance company can, prob wouldn't but could not cover the claim? And if there is anyway for the manufacture to "prove your mod caused the failure" they will. Certain dealers will honor modded cars/parts that they install.. But if u put a tune on your car and blow a $20,000+ motor mb USA is sending there own inspector to search for any mod. They fond so much as an intake ha VOID.. Simple solution don't mod if u want a warrentie/garentee if the tuning company says there covering something.. Yea there part you tune the car blow that same motor they'll send you a check maybe for the cost of the tune and say good luck on getting that motor replaced! Ok sorry to rant! Just my $.02 from my experiences

ghostbusters

Dodger63:

That's totally right. That's pretty much why Carlsson has worked with MB, such that their tunes are recognized by MB, and you can retain your 3 year warranty even though you modded it with Carlsson parts. I could not find any better deal that this to be honest.

On a separate note, you've modded your C63 with MHP parts right? Was wondering if MHP has a distributor in Malaysia. Also, been reading lots of comments on youtube, stuff like "(MHP C63 Owner): I have never seen any tuners hit a +75whp except for MHP. Even evosport couldn't top our Stage 2 kits." Any thoughts about the validity of this?

dodger63

I'm all Mhp why cause to me numbers don't lie? All this he said she said stuff I'm not smart enough to comment. I'll tell you one thing my car ran an 11.47 and earlier today in crappy conditions my car ran 11.56 almost 85 bad da whatever all that means! U want proven performance street and track! U no were to find it. I think anyway?? Mhp I'm pretty sure would be more than happy to ship anywere just call an@y sorry I don't think u can say his name without getting banned around here

AbdullahROM

http://www.carlsson.de/carlsson/en/news/warranty.php

i found this on their website

ghostbusters

Thanks for your website Abdullah ROM.

dodger63:
Not sure what's going on with the ban, but MHP definitely gives you performance figures. I'm skeptical as to whether the stock engine could handle all that excess power. Pretty much that's why Renntech, Carlsson and Brabus kits (extra power, but not excessive till the engine parts are going to take a huge hit) are recognized by MB. So not only do you get performance but the safety of knowing that you can push your car and it'll be in "safe hands", i.e I HAVE A WARRANTY...IT'LL BE FINE!

The thing that kills the most when it comes to hard driving I believe, could be sum up in this monologue:

<Hard driving>
"YEA! THAT WAS FUN!"
<Sending car to service)
"WHAT? I THOUGH THE TRANNY WAS MEANT TO LAST ME ANOTHER 6 MONTHS? AND WHY IS IT SO FRIGGIN EXPENSIVE?! BLOODY HELL. WHY DID I DROVE IT HARD?"

I'm sure you know what I mean

James@ACG

If you have any RENNtech questions, please feel free to contact me with any of your questions, James@ACGsandiego.com

dodger63

20,000 miles on my car since tune 5,000 since headers. Driven hard daily 20 1/4 miles passes yesterday after driving 320 miles to the track then 320 miles back! I'm not a big poster or talker so there are plenty of other people on the forum that can chime in about this also. If you have any specific questions related to me/my car or anything feel free to ask away But other then I rather not give
My opinion anymore

SonnyakaPig

I read Carlsson's warranty information page and I think their coverage depends on where you live. For instance, I didn't see anything mentioned about coverage in the U.S.

Also, I found it confusing whether their engine tune warranties begin when your car is first registered (purchased) or when you register your car with Carlsson.

dodger63

Are they insuring there warranty or is an insurance company?

dodger63

I think anyone buying a product based on a warranty should get a copy of the warranty before hand to see the exact wording?

jvanbrecht

I'm not going to get involved in which company is better than another in the respect of aftermarket tuning. However, laws vary by country, and I cannot speak for outside the US, but within the US, we have the "magnus morrison act" Google it if you want the specifics.

The basics however state that a manufacturer or vendor cannot arbitratily void your warranty (this is not specific to cars, its everything in the US) because you put aftermarket parts, or had an independent shop (I believe there is a second law proposed called the "Right to Repair legislation" that also covers these independent shops) make changes to your vehicle.

They can however void the warranty only on the modified aspect of the vehicle. For example, as someone previously used, if you changed your stock wheels to aftermarket rims, and non oem tires, the dealer cannot void your warranty if your engine explodes on you. (btw, they can also not deny you insurance if you crash on aftermarket wheels, unless teh parts used where not approved by some sort of governing body, like say using track tires on normal streets, then your insurance company could deny a claim)

Of course, touching the ECU will almost always void the warranty on anything that it controls, so yes, your engine warranty goes down the drain, but only if it can be proven that the modified programming caused the problem.

dodger63

I was in the business and new the owner of the dealership and new all about these laws! And was still denied an Maf on my jetta over a cai! After there was a recal on the part as stated earlier it's only my opinion I agree with you about not getting involved in the b/s over whose better! Just trying to give some real life experience? I would never trust anything in the warranty industry there are to many (grey areas) these companies spend huge $$$ to protect themselves on claims they don't need to pay. That's a fact!

ghostbusters

After reading heaps of comments and forums and reviews, I couldn't agree more, thanks for your time dodger63 and jvanbrecht!

jvanbrecht

Just out of curiosity, was the recall you are talking about for the coil packs for the 1.8t engines?

I had the same problem, first trip to dealer (was out of warranty at the time anyways), they said that the 80k mile major service would resolve the problem (I did not know what it was, car just went into limp mode), $800 later, 2 miles down the road.. BAM... limp mode again, drove back, another week in the shop, and the various things they did (I cannot recall), abother $500 later, did not even make it out of the parking lot before it went into limp mode... Only then did they tell me about the recall on the coil packs. Another 2 weeks without my car (back order on the parts) in a rental at the dealers cost this time, previous two times I had to pay for the rental.

Total cost to me (which at the time I could not afford) was around $1600, dealership would not budge on refunding any of that. I called VW corp, I managed to get the rental costs covered, around $300, but since the car would have needed the service (which I was not prepared to get at the time, would have done it later, or taken to an independent) at some point, they would not refund any of the moneys.

Last time I went to that dealership (which I later found out, did not actually do any of the work they said they did on the service, since they were supposed to replace a number of parts, and a trip to a different dealer over a year later for a minor repair, they stated that the parts in the car were original based on the part number, and not the oem replacement part numbers like it should have been)

I have learned many lessons from that entire incident about dealers, which is why I do not trust any of them.

/sorry for the off topic hijack /

SonnyakaPig

Yes, there are federal laws that protect consumers from baseless warranty refusals but in reality it would cost a lot of money to litigate a warranty dispute with a big auto manufacturer.

Obviously, it would only bring bad press to a dealership who refused to repair a customer car's roof ditch molding because he had an aftermarket tune.

But, that scenario isn't why we're all here in this thread. We want to know if MB will still fix your engine, transmission, and rear end (axles, differential, gears) if you add 50+ rwhp to your car with aftermarket parts.

I would assume that MB has language in their warranty that specifically addressess whether their warranty remains in effect after a customer tampers with his powertrain/drivetrain.

We all know that the M156 engine can handle another 50 rwhp (in fact, it's built specifically to handle that much more hp and then some) but if something goes wrong in your engine after you get a tune and the dealer refuses warranty coverage because they discover that you did have a tune, and you want to prove that your tune didn't cause the engine failure, you would have to pursue litigation and hire experts.

Your experts would face MB's experts and the fact finder likely wouldn't be performance enthusiasts.

Actually, this particular hypothetical is fairly interesting because in this battle of the experts, MB's top tuners would face off against the tuner that re-mapped your car's ECU and we would get to see what MB's tuners have to say about an aftermarket tune.

Maybe, the plaintiff's attorney could ask the AMG tuners about trans tuning...

So far I haven't heard of anyone blowing their engines yet, so they must be pretty strong.

brad @ evosport

This comment has never been substantiated by MHP - it is sales hype.

If you have any questions about our wares, I am happy to assist you and able to put you with real users who can answer any questions. The vast majority of our customers are not on this site or any forums, we only have about 5-10% of our customer base worldwide on the forums.

Thanks
brad

dodger63

Can u please find me real users of yours so we can compare for some reason I call out all the time for fun! I'm talking fun bragging rights, but for some reason there are never any takers??? Why in your honest opinion is that the eastern seaboard is covered withmhp users but that's the only ones that'll come out?? Have you sold any within 100 mile radius off new York?? I'd be more then happy to go do some testing!! Again please send some of your users my way

dodger63

Sorry make that 300 miles of new york

soldier2304

Neither Carlsson nor Brabus are certified by Mercedes-Benz. A dealer will not void your warranty unless they find that the problem was caused by your mods. It really does not matter if its Carlsson or Evosport. BTW the only tuning company 100% certified by Mercedes-Benz is AMG.

brad @ evosport

I cannot comment on the coverage of MHP cars. I doubt it is complete as you state, but that is not the discussion. The majority of our customers are SL, CLS and CLK users not C. Why? Dunno, perhaps that is due to our marketing. We do not "go after" the drag racer as that is simply not our core customer. In a capitalist free market economy there are suppliers for each niche, and rarely do you see much cross-over. I have about a dozen CLK63 BS in that area and a few C63's, but again, these are professionals. JRCart will travel anywhere to race anyone though if you want to wager real money, he is always up for the challenge!

Well stated!

Thanks
Brad