I think the results will be similar. There is no reason MHP could have a "Better Tune" other than perceived value due to it costing more.

However MHP has a big track presence and others really don't so that gives MHP a big leg up in its claims. Its put up or shut up at this point.

My busy schedule and the holiday season is setting me back from getting there. Lets see what Jon can do. His skinny *** should be running mid 11's on DR's with the dyno numbers he put up with the OE tune.

Lets not forget though... its all about the driver as well. No track experience isnt going to bode well for results. Thats why we see mid 12's coming out of K1 tunes.

We shall see. I'm hoping to get to the track soon and demystify this whole thing...


Edit: For the record im talking about OE vs MHP. I do believe MHP has a better tune than Kleemann. The dyno results show that.

There's no real technique driving this automatic car down the strip! Nail the gas Pedel and go...

Then why does Dad's use a driver?

There are many things people don't know that will set their times back...

PSI. Lower the PSI in the rear. Raise the PSI in the fronts.

Weight Reduction: Take out the spare tire and everything that can come out of the car. Run about 1/8 a tank of gas. Those two things alone with save you 100lb's or more.

The Launch: Light power brake during stage. Not sure on the C63 but probably about 1800-2000rpm. Mashing the peddle for me causes huge wheel spin in the C63. Do DR's take care of that problem completely?

All those things aren't a seceret.. And yes dr's completely solve all wheelspin issues!! I don't no why dads uses a driver? Driver weight also has a big effect on times, also jon probably weights 80#s less then me??

I didnt say they were secrets. Just techniques the every day Joe who brings his car to the track wouldnt know.

Good deal on the DR's The launch must feel really good without wheel spin.

Jon weighs about 120lb's. Maybe 140. He cant be over 5' 5 and skinny as a rail.

Then I weigh 100# more he should have a lighter car then me!!

I think you guys are also forgetting individual drag strip conditions. For example, I know that typically PBIR track prep and weather conditions usually inhibit many ppl from getting as good ET's as other tracks like ATCO and others.

Actually I'm 5'8 140. If I was shorter I wouldnt look so skinny

That's why it's important to compare things same day same track same time! That's like all this dyno b/s...

True. But I really wanted to see the AF ratios. BTW do you still have the CEL?

Cel is becausei never put one of the o2 sensors back in the exhaust!

What are you going to do about emissions test?

Put the o2 sensor in next time it's on the lift!! That's all!!

So if you aren't running any cats and plug in the O2 sensor you will still pass emissions?

No but that will shut the cel off and if I want to pass inspection I just throw the cats in it's approx. 20 min job with the Mhp slip on & off mids

Actually going to do that after the track days since my inspections been up for about 3 months

You know better than that Dynos mean nothing unless you're using the same one on the same day and even then how much airflow does it have?

Stating that one tune isn't any better than another is misinformation when you have no data or VBox to back it, and again, I don't think we've seen any OE cars run down the track, if they have no one's posted anything.

I think there are quite a few members with non proven track tunes getting a bit ahead of themselves, run the numbers first then compare data, not the other way around.

I gave congratulations for the sole C63 running 11s with the LET tune/DRs only, however it was in -1800' DA vs -200' DA when Raleighc63 ran 11.6@120.2 and more with MHP only tune and DRs. Take the DA to equivalent levels and that's .5 of a second and 5mph+ in the 1/4 difference with the only difference being tuning.

With all the cars OE has tuned why are none reporting any track results at all? I just don't get it. Seems like they've tuned as many cars as anyone else? Lots of dyno numbers, but how often do you see 2 dynos racing each other down the track.

About the question about why some people use driver's, some find that they can see things they would not be able to see while driving the car ie spinning or bogging, comparing launch rpms, weight transfer, etc. Helps to watch your car every once in a while.

I do know that Raleigh, dodger and mthis all drove their own cars to their own personal bests in their last race.

Thanks and take care!

Jast to clarify, the DA was -1127 on my 11.94 run on October
22nd at 9:36 pm which was bested by an 11.85 run on October
29th with the addition of a RENNtech air box of which the DA
was -194.

Not quite the difference you suggest but I do agree MHP
has a great tune.

Stating one tune is better than the other with out data is misinformation. You said it. Show me some OE numbers. We dont have any yet. I didn't say one was better yet. I said I think they will be running the same. I know your not saying MHP is better without any data to back it right?

Its not a secret science here. Most of these tunes are doing the exact same thing. Did Andy develop the tune himself for MHP? Care you give a reason why the MHP tune would do better down the 1/4 than the OE tune showing simular numbers on the dyno? Ive asked this question endless times and not one person is able to give an answer.

I guess well see. OE is gaining big respect lately with their dyno results and I can tell you my car is pulling like a beast tune only on the dyno and on the street. I dont think anyone is getting ahead of themselves I think the dyno numbers are gonna translate right to the track. Kleemann tunes show weak results on the track as well as on the dyno.

Hopefully someone will lend Jon their DR's and he can get the job done. I wish I could go myself just to put it to rest.

My money is on the same results from OE. Your saying otherwise without any data to the contrary? Im just making a prediction. No need to get ahead of ourselves here as you stated. The numbers will speak for themselves. Give it time.

Ohhh ok, I see.

With all due respect, not all of us are so fanatical about getting to run @ the track the very next second we get a new mod. In addition, in some areas of the country, it's still 83 degrees F, haha, and track + weather conditions are not nearly as good as places where it's much colder and drier.

Personally, I've already mentioned that I will be running at the track soon, but I like to go when it cools down here. In addition, I also noted that I will be running on my Michelin Sport All-Season+ street tires and not DRs, so I know I won't be getting times close to the MHP cars w/ DRs. I have some numbers in my head that I will be looking for that will satisfy me; I'm not looking to break any records or boast bragging rights...just want to see my car is in fact significantly faster than before as my dynos show much more HP/TQ now.

Excellent points.

I have no doubt your car will be significantly faster than before.

Just go, have fun and enjoy yourself.

That's an important step that a lot of people miss, IMHO... "what will I find satisfying?" - good of you to think of that first. Care to share what you're targeting?

What were your "before" times to compare your upcoming runs against?

I agree, time will tell, seeing all the predictions makes me optimistic however I know to wait for hard facts. I'm not big on dynos (and I believe this answers your question as to why racers don't consider them valid as an accurate measure of horsepower and torque) because there is not real world air-flow, 5th gear goes to 180mph+ in a C63 and I've never seen a dyno that could replicate that.

That's why I personally place track and VBox data ahead of dynos, as long as all the data is submitted including DA for both and incline/decline for Vbox etc we have by far the most accurate information available to base decisions on.

Look at the top 10 slots on dragtimes for a C63, those guys could own the top 100 by posting all their slips, to me that shows consistancy and repeatability and I'm big on that as well personally.

From what I can find there is a boatload of data backing MHPs products and zero track or VBox data for OE at this point. I believe that to be a fact? Again please correct me if I'm misspoken.
If you can find anything please link me, I'm open to everyone but just not seeing a whole lot of anything other than dynos.

Andy, yes I've spoken with him and other tuners as I inch closer to a C63 with a tune He readily admits he doesn't do the remapping himself, it was actually one of the first things he told me. He takes no credit for it other than partnering with the right people and from what I can tell doesn't care as long as he can deliver what he thinks and has so far proven by a significant margin to be the best product. They do have 4 tune and drag radial only cars running in the 11s two of which were in positive DA air. I personally like the concept of European software and american hardware I think it brings the best of both worlds together, in my mind anyway. I would just call the guy, he's very open on the phone and can probably tell you exactly why they don't believe in dynos either.

If you are into dynos Raleighc63 posted an interesting comparison of dynos of his car with 3 different tunes, somewhere in this forum. There were significant differences between the 3 tunes on the same dynos and they were 3 "big" name tuners. Kleemann was one of them, and they do have proven track results. Again at this point unless I've missed it thats more than OE has.

I know there are quite a few happy OE owners out there so someone get to the damn track for the good of everyone.

Maybe we can all chip in $10-20 for a set of DRs for someone?


Be safe!

OE isn't off my list btw I just want to see some numbers first.