RStevens63

Here's a 573rwhp and 550rwtq plus graph of cart's BS with less boost, on C16. AFs are nailed great job weistec, and the sls cams and weistec ported heads seem to be playing well with the larger injectors and in trunk ice&water res plus full exhaust:

RNS-11Z

awesome discussion guys, and thanks for the info sonny.

I have to ask, how can a tuner in one country tune a car for another country when fuel is so inconsistent? Even here in Aus, our pump fuel varies so much from servo to servo. How can you provide a 100% safe tune when you can not even dyno the vehicle and adjust maps on the spot?? Currently there is a rumour circulating around that a USA based tuner, tuned a AUS C63 whose motor recently failed because of this. I would hate to see this happen to Maverick.


h.

RStevens63

As far as a C63 or 63 is concerned I would look for a mechanical cause of failure in this case. It takes a special kind of idiot to blow up a stock longblock NA engine. Aside from that the ECUs shut cylinders off when detecting misfires so I'm not even sure if that's possible with a 63. Earlier forced induction cars, sure makes sense. ECUs are able to adapt and your OEM ECU tune in Australia is the same fuel wise as a US spec tune so MB and AMG see fit to send out a "boxed" tune. I do believe many tuners keep records of fuel quality and probably take that into account too. I've actually heard rumors about the tuner in your signature as ironic as that is.

Maverick1975

Thanks Roswell!

Maverick1975

On this particular topic i would like to add that i have had my Brabus tune on my C63 for 2 years now and not one single issue. Likewise the ML63 has had Vath tune for 12 months and no drama. The only problem i ever had with a tuned vehicle was with a 'canned' tune from Powerchip on the ML63 when the car went into limp mode a few times on hard acceleration. I removed the Powerchip tune. Weistec have specifically developed a different 98 RON fuel map to accompany the supercharger

RNS-11Z

Thats is good news. Definately brings some confidence.

h.

RNS-11Z

This happened to me twice. Ive been struck with bad fuel from 2 different locations, by the same fuel company, putting the car went into limp mode.

In regards to my tuner, i am happy with the service he provides for me. I can not comment on his service with others, but i am pleased with his help. Every ones experience is different.

h.

Sonny@Marranos

Do you have the boost graph along side the fuel graph ? Also noticed the mention of C16 ? Doe this mean this vehicle doesnt have cats ? ,not taking any digs just asking questions as we all want the kit to work.




regards sonny

RStevens63

Wow that's crazy! I might have guessed on nitrous or something but just driving around NA, well that's not good. If it's that bad quality wise I would probably just stick with a 95 RON tune.

The rumors I've heard about bps aren't bad, and they definitely have nothing to do with customer service. They actually have more to do with where and how he sources his base files.

I think everyone wants all cards on the table so there should be no problem discussing the mods. No cats. Sorry this was the only updated graph I can find.

AFs are great for a race gas tune but would never work using pump gas--basically you could never think of running this much boost on pump gas. Again though for RG excellent work.

RStevens63

No question a sick garage sir! Cheers!

ecampbell

I think you guys are forgetting Weistec is selling a stage 1 product and everything else is in the development stage.

Someone is asking for a testimonial? The SC works perfect for my setup. I have a very usable 550 rwhp without issues. The car worked great in CA and during the drive to Vegas averaging 20mph on busy freeway.

Sonny.., Jim's setup is custom and not currently for sale so I am not sure why you are stating you just want the kit to work as it works just fine.

SonnyakaPig

I know you were talking to another Sonny, but I want to add to my first post where I said I was convinced blowers on stock internals for this car is a bad idea.

Obviously, at low enough boost, with a spot on tune, and with the right octane and increase in fuel supply if necessary, the car should run great for thousands of miles.

But, pump gas is never the same twice. In CA I can't see how you feel comfortable with pump gas. If I were you, I would have 100 octane oxygenated fuel by the gallon in my garage to mix with inconsistent 91 octane pump gas.

550 whp seems very easy to attain with this setup. At what psi, though?

I would think the stage 1 kit would make high 4xx rwhp on 91 octane, and maybe 20-30 more rwhp on 93+ octane. How much boost is your blower making to achieve 550whp?

I believe your car makes 550 rwhp, but I don't see how you do it on CA 91 octane.

I'm kind of surprised your mpg wasn't a little higher. When I had a twin screw on my last V8, my mpg shot up dramatically on the fwy.

I hope you're enjoying your beast. Take some video of it and share, we all would be excited to see it in action.

ecampbell

MPH would have been higher if the car was driven normally

At 5PSI (where I am) the engine is not being stressed. Henessey and Evosport were involved in the aftermarket parts.

The car lives for the moment in Las Vegas and spends time in Canada and will be in Europe later this fall. Would I do it again? Yes... Would I have had the Evopsport tunes...no as the SC set up is erased when you put the SC on.

SonnyakaPig

That's really impressive you're making roughly 40 whp per psi. I just don't understand how it's done on 91 octane.

Perhaps the car doesn't make that much power when running 91 octane. It's all good. Better gas gives you room to make more power.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your AFR for this setup on 91 octane? 10.9-11.5? Just guessing here.

whipplem104

"That's really impressive you're making roughly 40 whp per psi."

Am I missing something or that would be 200whp? Which would be at least 580-620whp. I agree that the gains are good but I figured that was a factor of the displacement and the VE of the engine. It is all about cfm in the end right.

SonnyakaPig

Not missing anything.

Stock C63's on 91 octane dyno at roughly 350 rwhp, give or take 10 hp.

550 - 350 = 200

At 5 psi, that's roughly 40 whp/ per psi.

I know dynos vary all over the world. 370 whp on one dyno is 350 on another. But, I think octane is a good indicator of what the engine can make.

When MB advertises that the C63 makes 451 bhp SAE, that's likely on the finest 93 octane in the world, so all available timing in the maps can be advanced.

When I fill up on 91 octane, I know my car is not advancing all the timing available even in the stock tune.

Even if this car makes over 30 whp per psi (say if stock C63's dyno at 380 and this car is at 550; difference of 170 whp, divided by 5 psi = more than 30 whp per psi), that's awesome. And that is likely a factor of the displacement, CR, CFM in and out of the engine.

This engine is a beast!!! So yes, it's not incredible that this engine makes so much power per psi. But, at the same time, there's no way this car runs around advancing all available timing, even on the 5 psi tune, when the gas tank is filled with pump 91.

Edit: Disregard, because I'm losing my vision and maybe an occasional brain cell.

GHAZAN

He drives a BS those dyno around 410rwhp i believe

SonnyakaPig

Oh, snap. Well color me blind.

Dads C63

Thank you for the testimonial. I am impressed like some others that 550rwhp can be obtained on 91 octane fuel. If so, thats great. 550 rwhp is about all the fuel the stock ECU can supply power wise so thats a believeable number. Do you have any before and after dyno sheets with the A/F? Thank you for the information.

Ben,
Very sorry we got off track and good luck with the new set up!!

whipplem104

Well some of this gain is not quite the same. A stock Black Series makes a few more hp stock. A c63 picks up a fair amount off just a tune since it is detuned. I would imagine that the BS picks up a few hp. Also from my experience high VE engines do not need a lot of timing. I tune a couple of different engines for myself and others and have seen that 14-15 degrees of timing is max power on them. I was a little surprised at how low that is. I do not know for sure were the timing is on these engines but couple that with the low boost and good intercooling and I do not see it being to much of a problem for a street car. Also with timing pull of knock, misfire detection, etc. I think it would be pretty safe. Now if you were tracking this thing hard and had time to heat soak the intercooler and were running regular unleaded then you might see some problems. I know my car looses a ton of power on hot summer days and I have to pull timing down to around 10 degrees on premium fuel. That is at 12psi on 9:2/1 compression. That is why I am so excited about running E85 now. I think that you might see some very large power drop on these as well when intake temperatures get high. But hey you can not have everything.

RStevens63

Would you be so kind as to clarify what mods were on your car to make 550rwhp?

I've been trying to piece them together reading others posts and I get everything from stock to SLS cams and headers.

Thanks in advance!

jrcart

You tell me....care to make a friendly wager on the under over? The car has been driven a couple hundred miles in varying conditions with the SC installed. I have given permission to Steve at Weistec to drive my car during delelopment for "real world" testing. I have driven it and beat the snot out of it and made a few passes at the track with it. The only issues we have run up against is a broken front wheel due to a bad weld and a couple of shattered OEM idler pulleys, which I would like to add that I went through a couple of those pre-SC as well. There have not been any SC related issues. All I can tell you is if and when it does blow it will only get built up even bigger and stronger. Some of you might worry about blowing up your motors, I look at it as an excuse to make it better, its not anything I lose sleep over. If something does blow you can all thank me for finding the limit and breaking point of these motors. You guys need to stop jumping to conclusions, there is paint and body work being done on the car, the hold up is not Weistec.

thebishman

I would one of these days love to see your car and compare it to my stock BS. Thanks for ALL the effort and money you've poured into the car to help other owners make informed decisions re: upgrades.

Many of the posts above have mentioned (potential) issues with the transmission ECU hampering the actual performance due to the high torque numbers a car modified like yours produces. Are you experiencing ANY transmission issues?

TIA,
Bish

jrcart

Contrary to what all the "experts" have posted the only issue I see is with manuallys shifting the car at the strip, it revs so quickly from first to second it is impossible to time it and manually shift, Auto S is the only way to run the car at the strip and the computter can keep up in auto. That is completely opposite of what all the experts are speculating so that should tell you what most of the guys commenting on this thread know about anything let alone my car. The car is going back on the dyno this week to test out some new pulleys. When Steve gives it his nod of approval we are heading back to the strip. The only issue we had at the strip a few weeks ago was some pilot error and the pulleys, I put together a couple clean 1/8 mile passes and a couple good back half passes I just never put together a clean complete pass and thet is 100% on me and the pulleys. I can sit here and make excuses and even post up a bunch of slips showing great 60s with good front half times and a slip with a great back half time with a crappy 60 and we could play "what if" and Mr Potatoe Head peicing together slips saying if I coulda run this 60 with that 1/8th and another back half it would have been a 10.??? But why even trry yo live in fantasy land. I am disapointed that the pulleys broke and disappointed in my driving on a couple other passes but I am happy with the way the car was running, I did not see anything that would make me question any of the work Weistec has done or their product, I am completely happy with the performance and power it makes.

ecampbell

I don't really know what some of the experts are even expecting...well actually I do, they expect a product to work perfect without any testing and before it is even made available to the general public.

I would likely have my car back out west to enjoy the testing but as I am on the other side of the world and a different hemisphere I will let Jim be the test bed and at some point in June or July I will jump in.