dabullc63

OK so I am trying to find out if the Kleeman headers and high flow cats are worth the money. I have my car tuned and know I will need to retune it but am curious if the headers and cats will make much of a difference or are they a waste and I would need to get long tube headers for a real difference. I think I can get the headers and cats purchased and installed for a little over 2K.

Mort

I don't know about performance gains but they will not equal LTH but have cats and are quieter.

Eurocharged is having a sale to the end of June for Kleeman headers and a tune for $1649 for the C63. There is a thread in this forum.

dabullc63

Yeah,I definitely know that the headers will not perform like LTH but the cost of LTH I can't afford plus I am not sure I want my car to be obnoxiously loud. Loud is good but to a certain point

dodger63

Obnoxiously loud has more to do with the cat delete. You could always run cats? Seems like these products are all droping in price.. You should call around! The instal price will bevyhe same so it will just be the hard part cost. You could always drop the cats for a track day to get that little extra power also.... Just my thought

Sincity

Call your local Kleemann dealer or Cory @ Kleemann directly to check on current pricing. They ran a special in April. With the Kleemann setup, you are looking at about half the power of long tube headers.

dabullc63

Good info. What is a rough estimate on the install of headers?

Sincity - do you have the Kleeman headers and hf cats? If so what are your thoughts on power?

dodger63

I would think you would be looking at 700-1000 for install

BK63amg

My question is this: do does running stock cats with LTHs impact performance? i'm considering LTHs for the future but am concerned about the loudness that will come from deleting the cats (which isn't what I want.)

dodger63

LTH eliminate the stock cats you would need to add cars after the headers. Kleemen headers will increase the sound also, but not as loud with the stock cats, The cats and resinators are what muffle the noise so in all reality kleamens with no cats and LTH with no cats should in theory sound close to the same

DuaneC63

If you're going to spend the money get LTH. The shorties or log type don't offer the flow or scavenging effect of LTH. Downside is your stock cats won't fit and perhaps not your stock resonator. But new 100 cell cats are sweet. The resonator is useless weight.

Sincity

Yes and Kleemann calls it K2. Small increase in power. I think others who have been on the dyno are at 445 RWHP on the high side so you are still about 25-30 RWHP short of LTs. I had mine installed @ ACGSD and they charged $575 for Kleemann or LT install so a shop in your area should be similar. IIRC, Cory @ Kleemann charges a flat $500.

To increase the scavenging effect, I am going to either install a GT-Pro X or MBH X. Soundwise, the Kleemann manifolds and 200 cell cats are nowhere near LTs and hopefully when I add the X, it should still be quieter than LTs. For your reference, BHAMG has MBH headers, 300 cell cats, and stock secondaries and it is still louder than my K2 setup.

CELLryuu

kewl, i didnt know you got them installed. i still havent dynoed my set up yet but your data is kind of what im expecting, if i ever get my lazy butt to the dyno machine.

anyway, the 500 bucks for an install is a great price. so you could get the tune and manifold set up for around 2000. you basically have to more than double the price for those extra 20-30 hp with LTH, so i just went with the kleemann set up.

If you need those extra ponies, go for it, but im really happy with the performance and sound of my current set up.

dabullc63

CELLryuu - have you had your car dyno'd? I am curious since your setup would mirror mine. Just with my tune I added 42 whp's. If I only get 15whp for another 2K I am not sure it is money well spent. I could remove the second cats and resonator and replace the primary's with high flow and would think I would spend less if I was looking for sound. Thoughts?

CELLryuu

you make a good point. 15 hp is not too noticeable when you are making this much power. i have yet to get it into the dyno though. everytime i try too, something prevents me from getting it done.

ill get around to it some day.

there is a dyno of this set up somewhere on this forum.

my main goal was to keep the car smog league. not sure if i did that or not, but back when i got this done the two LTH i was looking at were over 4000 dollars. and the tune for those headers were like 3000. so i spent 2500 instead of 7000+

ill look around for that dyno sheet for ya.

heres one

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...2010-c63s.html

or you could just read this whole thing

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ers-995-a.html

Sincity

Agreed w/CELLryu that the extra boost from K2 is not that great when you are over 500 crank HP. Here is one of the better reviews: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...xperience.html

BAD430BENZ

if you are not looking to spend that much money for a little extra power , then go with the Kleeman goodies . i always say this when people ask about performance parts , don't buy something that you will not be totally happy with because you are just throwing money out the window . i know that the cost of the LTs , no matter what brand you get , is quite a bit more than the shorties or manifolds but why not just save up the extra cash to get it . seems like people get too anxious to make a little extra power and when they get that power , they want more .

really think about how much power will make you happy and what you want in the long run from your car . i wanted to make as much power as possible , so i did a lot of research , saved up the funds and bought the MHP setup . i was originally going to do the Kleeman setup but figured the amount of power produced by the Kleeman was not going to be the best for me in the longrun . Cory @ Kleeman is a stand-up guy and answered a lot of my questions . he has a great product and i highly recommend Kleeman if you are looking for good power at a good price

CELLryuu

thats the one i was looking for, thanks

glilly

I just had this done through Eurocharged and Motorworks did the install. $995 for the Kleeman shorties w/ high flow cats, $100 for the K&N filters, (was already tuned, just needed a re-tune), and the install was roughly 8-9 hours I believe.

I based 388 with the base stage 1 tune prior to the header install, stage 2 with headers & filters installed went to 411. I'll try and post up the chart when I can.

Eurocharged have been having issues with their dyno, but it still shows the gain and they were able to tune from it. They estimated adding another 30ish would be where the "actual" numbers should be, had their dyno been reading properly.

I was very happy with everything, as I did not want to make the car much louder than it already was, which is why I opted for the shorty kit.

Next up, ...pulley!! ...then i'm done. LOL

Sincity

Just had it smogged (via OBDII port) and it passed. So, it shouldn't be an issue if your state only uses the sniffer.

CELLryuu

awesome!

and, just to let you know. I just got my ecu re re flashed and the car is running freakishly awesome. i can tell a major difference from the first tune and the cel is gone (whooopy)

i cant wait to see how much power it is making now. I mean, it really feels like there are 50 more hp than after the first reflash?

anyway, its tough to keep the rear end pinned down now. (not that this is a fair comparison) but i raced an sl500 today and it was like i was racing a civic. the guy just smiled, laughed and said "holy $|-||t dude. lol

Sincity

Yeah. I keep it on ESP Sport and if I do the D2 to D3 shift while going straight, the tail wags on my Hankook EV12s.

ATL_MB

I have a tune-only C63, and I ran a couple weeks ago at Roebling Road against a K2 (Kleemann headers and 200 cell cats) C63. The K2 was 2 car lengths or so faster down the straight. It was a big difference. It also sounded fantastic at WOT, but was not much louder at partial throttle and there was really no difference at idle. Overall, I think that the K2 is the best compromise between performance and drivability out there. I believe that LTs will be much faster, but they are just far too loud in my opinion -- but that's a personal preference.