ACG Build: C63 Weistec Stage 2
08-08-2011, 08:19 PM
#326
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,694
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
07 RS4 sold, R53 Cooper S, 2008 Cayman S, 2012 GTR
We were finally able to pin point the cam fault which was due to a failing crank position sensor. With stage 1+ we hit 540whp and 513 wtq (right where we expected), we are in the process of installing the stage 2 update which will put us right around 575-590 whp. Graphs will be posted shortly, showing proper A/F and massive power increase.
As for jim,
We would like to thank you for your patience throughout this whole ordeal, and am glad that you plan to keep your C63 after this built.
After tomorrow, we'll begin the wide body project.
Last edited by James@ACG; 08-08-2011 at 08:22 PM.
08-08-2011, 08:39 PM
#331
MBWorld Fanatic!
Sorry Gents, we've been busy working on this project, much thanks to Steve and Mike over at Weistec.
We were finally able to pin point the cam fault which was due to a failing crank position sensor. With stage 1+ we hit 540whp and 513 wtq (right where we expected), we are in the process of installing the stage 2 update which will put us right around 575-590 whp. Graphs will be posted shortly, showing proper A/F and massive power increase.
As for jim,
We would like to thank you for your patience throughout this whole ordeal, and am glad that you plan to keep your C63 after this built.
After tomorrow, we'll begin the wide body project.
We were finally able to pin point the cam fault which was due to a failing crank position sensor. With stage 1+ we hit 540whp and 513 wtq (right where we expected), we are in the process of installing the stage 2 update which will put us right around 575-590 whp. Graphs will be posted shortly, showing proper A/F and massive power increase.
As for jim,
We would like to thank you for your patience throughout this whole ordeal, and am glad that you plan to keep your C63 after this built.
After tomorrow, we'll begin the wide body project.
Congrats James on the great progess. I'm sure Jim and everyone involved will be more than pleased with the final result.
As many have already mentioned, a build like this takes patience and perseverance to be done right, even with the most talented and competent people behind it.
Jim, despite patience not being one of your biggest virtues (hey, we all have our faults), I'm glad you were willing to see this through and give ACGSD/Weistec a chance to make things right. In the end it is all the rest of us that will benefit most from the tremendous R&D and funding that went into your project. Good luck with the rest of the build and hope to see you and the car in action sometime soon at a local track event.
Last edited by xtyper; 08-08-2011 at 09:09 PM.
08-08-2011, 08:44 PM
#332
MBWorld Fanatic!
08-08-2011, 10:33 PM
#334
MBWorld Fanatic!
Sorry Gents, we've been busy working on this project, much thanks to Steve and Mike over at Weistec.
We were finally able to pin point the cam fault which was due to a failing crank position sensor. With stage 1+ we hit 540whp and 513 wtq (right where we expected), we are in the process of installing the stage 2 update which will put us right around 575-590 whp. Graphs will be posted shortly, showing proper A/F and massive power increase.
As for jim,
We would like to thank you for your patience throughout this whole ordeal, and am glad that you plan to keep your C63 after this built.
After tomorrow, we'll begin the wide body project.
We were finally able to pin point the cam fault which was due to a failing crank position sensor. With stage 1+ we hit 540whp and 513 wtq (right where we expected), we are in the process of installing the stage 2 update which will put us right around 575-590 whp. Graphs will be posted shortly, showing proper A/F and massive power increase.
As for jim,
We would like to thank you for your patience throughout this whole ordeal, and am glad that you plan to keep your C63 after this built.
After tomorrow, we'll begin the wide body project.
few question if i may.
The dyno number are on what type of dyno and if dynojet was it SAE?
Whats the boost for stage 1 on this car?
and last ... does this car have light weight rotors? and is it on the HRE/s on the dyno or on stck wheel?
08-08-2011, 10:41 PM
#335
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
How big are the stock rear brakes? Can you C63 owners fit a 16" rear wheel?
I'd be shocked if you couldn't get enough traction from a 255/50/16 drag tire, if you get the temps and pressures right. There's a lot more to traction and being able to hook than just width, as I'm sure you know.
I'd be shocked if you couldn't get enough traction from a 255/50/16 drag tire, if you get the temps and pressures right. There's a lot more to traction and being able to hook than just width, as I'm sure you know.
08-09-2011, 10:12 AM
#338
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,694
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
07 RS4 sold, R53 Cooper S, 2008 Cayman S, 2012 GTR
Sick build good luck with the rest.
few question if i may.
The dyno number are on what type of dyno and if dynojet was it SAE?
Whats the boost for stage 1 on this car?
and last ... does this car have light weight rotors? and is it on the HRE/s on the dyno or on stck wheel?
few question if i may.
The dyno number are on what type of dyno and if dynojet was it SAE?
Whats the boost for stage 1 on this car?
and last ... does this car have light weight rotors? and is it on the HRE/s on the dyno or on stck wheel?
the dyno that was used was a dynojet 248, yes SAE correction factor was used, STD would give us a higher number but honestly we're not trying to play a numbers game, just want this car running right. Plus Jim will of course get a copy of the dyno graphs.
Stage 1 boost is ~ 7-8 pounds, we lost a pound due to the heads, and another 1.5 pounds due to the LTH.
Stage 1+ has us back up to 8#
Once again to make sure we're not playing numbers games, we made sure the car dynos with the stock wheels and stock 1pc rotors.
Hope this answers your questions, let me know if you have any others.
08-09-2011, 10:43 AM
#339
MBWorld Fanatic!
mthis, these are great questions...
the dyno that was used was a dynojet 248, yes SAE correction factor was used, STD would give us a higher number but honestly we're not trying to play a numbers game, just want this car running right. Plus Jim will of course get a copy of the dyno graphs.
Stage 1 boost is ~ 7-8 pounds, we lost a pound due to the heads, and another 1.5 pounds due to the LTH.
Stage 1+ has us back up to 8#
Once again to make sure we're not playing numbers games, we made sure the car dynos with the stock wheels and stock 1pc rotors.
Hope this answers your questions, let me know if you have any others.
the dyno that was used was a dynojet 248, yes SAE correction factor was used, STD would give us a higher number but honestly we're not trying to play a numbers game, just want this car running right. Plus Jim will of course get a copy of the dyno graphs.
Stage 1 boost is ~ 7-8 pounds, we lost a pound due to the heads, and another 1.5 pounds due to the LTH.
Stage 1+ has us back up to 8#
Once again to make sure we're not playing numbers games, we made sure the car dynos with the stock wheels and stock 1pc rotors.
Hope this answers your questions, let me know if you have any others.
Just one more tho.
When u say the car losses boost bc of heads and LT's are you guys Dyno tuning this car or shelf tune?
Just think if it's Dyno tuned why the loss?
Last edited by mthis; 08-09-2011 at 10:47 AM.
08-09-2011, 10:50 AM
#340
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,694
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
07 RS4 sold, R53 Cooper S, 2008 Cayman S, 2012 GTR
You lose pressure because of volume, the stage 1 and stage 1+ pulleys are different. So in order to bring the boost back up, we need to change to a smaller cog pulley. Boost with a supercharger cant not be changed with programming like a turbo can.
08-09-2011, 01:54 PM
#343
MBWorld Fanatic!
08-09-2011, 05:20 PM
#344
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm trying to figure out if the heads are worth anything or not and would it be safe to run 11-12#'s on Stock heads
08-09-2011, 06:06 PM
#345
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: seattle
Posts: 837
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes
on
20 Posts
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
You should be able to run more boost on stock heads. Boost, psi is resistance.
If the ported heads flow more then boost will drop. Cylinder filling and exhaust flow will go up. At lower boost you should make more hp. Air in the cylinder makes more hp not in the intake. So if you put flow more in the exhaust and the intake you should make more hp at lower boost pressure. Say starting at 10 psi on stock everything then you put headers on and then with the same pulley on the supercharger you make 8psi but 50 more hp. Then you put ported heads on then you make 30 more hp but at 6psi. Then you change the pulley to make 10 psi with the headers and ported heads. You make another 50hp or whatever the numbers are. You are simply flowing more, filling the cylinder better. So a boost pressure drop putting heads on is not a bad thing. The real question is does it make more power.
If the ported heads flow more then boost will drop. Cylinder filling and exhaust flow will go up. At lower boost you should make more hp. Air in the cylinder makes more hp not in the intake. So if you put flow more in the exhaust and the intake you should make more hp at lower boost pressure. Say starting at 10 psi on stock everything then you put headers on and then with the same pulley on the supercharger you make 8psi but 50 more hp. Then you put ported heads on then you make 30 more hp but at 6psi. Then you change the pulley to make 10 psi with the headers and ported heads. You make another 50hp or whatever the numbers are. You are simply flowing more, filling the cylinder better. So a boost pressure drop putting heads on is not a bad thing. The real question is does it make more power.
08-09-2011, 07:35 PM
#346
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
You should be able to run more boost on stock heads. Boost, psi is resistance.
If the ported heads flow more then boost will drop. Cylinder filling and exhaust flow will go up. At lower boost you should make more hp. Air in the cylinder makes more hp not in the intake. So if you put flow more in the exhaust and the intake you should make more hp at lower boost pressure. Say starting at 10 psi on stock everything then you put headers on and then with the same pulley on the supercharger you make 8psi but 50 more hp. Then you put ported heads on then you make 30 more hp but at 6psi. Then you change the pulley to make 10 psi with the headers and ported heads. You make another 50hp or whatever the numbers are. You are simply flowing more, filling the cylinder better. So a boost pressure drop putting heads on is not a bad thing. The real question is does it make more power.
If the ported heads flow more then boost will drop. Cylinder filling and exhaust flow will go up. At lower boost you should make more hp. Air in the cylinder makes more hp not in the intake. So if you put flow more in the exhaust and the intake you should make more hp at lower boost pressure. Say starting at 10 psi on stock everything then you put headers on and then with the same pulley on the supercharger you make 8psi but 50 more hp. Then you put ported heads on then you make 30 more hp but at 6psi. Then you change the pulley to make 10 psi with the headers and ported heads. You make another 50hp or whatever the numbers are. You are simply flowing more, filling the cylinder better. So a boost pressure drop putting heads on is not a bad thing. The real question is does it make more power.
08-10-2011, 10:17 AM
#347
MBWorld Fanatic!
You should be able to run more boost on stock heads. Boost, psi is resistance.
If the ported heads flow more then boost will drop. Cylinder filling and exhaust flow will go up. At lower boost you should make more hp. Air in the cylinder makes more hp not in the intake. So if you put flow more in the exhaust and the intake you should make more hp at lower boost pressure. Say starting at 10 psi on stock everything then you put headers on and then with the same pulley on the supercharger you make 8psi but 50 more hp. Then you put ported heads on then you make 30 more hp but at 6psi. Then you change the pulley to make 10 psi with the headers and ported heads. You make another 50hp or whatever the numbers are. You are simply flowing more, filling the cylinder better. So a boost pressure drop putting heads on is not a bad thing. The real question is does it make more power.
If the ported heads flow more then boost will drop. Cylinder filling and exhaust flow will go up. At lower boost you should make more hp. Air in the cylinder makes more hp not in the intake. So if you put flow more in the exhaust and the intake you should make more hp at lower boost pressure. Say starting at 10 psi on stock everything then you put headers on and then with the same pulley on the supercharger you make 8psi but 50 more hp. Then you put ported heads on then you make 30 more hp but at 6psi. Then you change the pulley to make 10 psi with the headers and ported heads. You make another 50hp or whatever the numbers are. You are simply flowing more, filling the cylinder better. So a boost pressure drop putting heads on is not a bad thing. The real question is does it make more power.
That's what I wanted to know.
08-10-2011, 10:49 AM
#348
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: seattle
Posts: 837
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes
on
20 Posts
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
I was thinking that I should clarify a little. When dealing with a positive displacement supercharger raising the boost will have larger increases in power in the lower rpm ranges where flow is not as much of an issue. So as rpm raises and you start to outflow the head and exhaust. It becomes increasingly difficult to raise power on the top end. So you could add some more boost or increase flow in the heads and exhaust. Exhaust back pressure is really important if you have overlap in the intake and exhaust, which is definitely the case with the m156. During overlap the back pressure psi will cancel out intake pressure psi. So say you have stock exhaust and 10psi of boost in the intake and 5psi in the exhaust. During overlap only 5psi of positive pressure is in effect filling the cylinder. Drop exhaust back pressure with headers and gain that psi during overlap. This is why adding another psi of boost at a certain point stops yielding very much gain. The increased load and temperature almost cancels out the gain in hp. You can keep making power down low but the top becomes flat. My car for instance lost power on the top with factory exhaust. I do tuning on a restricted turbo motor for rally and it drops significantly through out the rpm range. In fact we float the wastegate on the top end to promote exhaust flow over more boost.
08-10-2011, 11:10 AM
#349
MBWorld Fanatic!
I saw a bunch of people picking up change on the corner of Convoy and Ronson Rd. Looked like a whole truck load- I wonder if Jim is at the shop today???
Last edited by Bramage; 08-10-2011 at 01:12 PM.
08-10-2011, 04:58 PM
#350
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,694
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
07 RS4 sold, R53 Cooper S, 2008 Cayman S, 2012 GTR
But in all seriousness... Jim's car put down 603whp.. i'll post a graph shortly.
