OE Tuning/Gintani C63 vs MBH/ASCG C63
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From: SoCal
2013 E63 AMG
And just to reiterate, most of the even start races resulted in Jeremy pulling by 2 cars from 40-130ish. Only the third video accurately represents this. So it wasn't as bad an *** whooping as the first couple of videos may suggest.
Last edited by xtyper; Jul 23, 2011 at 09:04 PM.
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C63, C300, 911TT x 3, 911 C2 x 2, 911SC, SL65, SL500, 280SL Plus some trucks
The track is nice but it introduces the driver into the equation and doesn't demonstrate the capabilities of the car in isolation. Jawboning one tuner against another one with a small sampling of cars can't be done unless they are done on a pair of dynos at the same time then swapped to each others dynos and run again at the same time and the results are averaged. Even then, there are more drive components involved and no two motors generally start life the same.
Personally, until HP differences start getting above 15-20 for any given tuner, I just don't pay much attention to it.
Also, I am sorry I didn't say exactly what I meant about stating that Jeremy was driving his own car. I thought it was self evident why.
Jim
Personally, until HP differences start getting above 15-20 for any given tuner, I just don't pay much attention to it.
Also, I am sorry I didn't say exactly what I meant about stating that Jeremy was driving his own car. I thought it was self evident why.
Jim
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From: NY
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The track is nice but it introduces the driver into the equation and doesn't demonstrate the capabilities of the car in isolation. Jawboning one tuner against another one with a small sampling of cars can't be done unless they are done on a pair of dynos at the same time then swapped to each others dynos and run again at the same time and the results are averaged. Even then, there are more drive components involved and no two motors generally start life the same.
Personally, until HP differences start getting above 15-20 for any given tuner, I just don't pay much attention to it.
Also, I am sorry I didn't say exactly what I meant about stating that Jeremy was driving his own car. I thought it was self evident why.
Jim
Personally, until HP differences start getting above 15-20 for any given tuner, I just don't pay much attention to it.
Also, I am sorry I didn't say exactly what I meant about stating that Jeremy was driving his own car. I thought it was self evident why.
Jim
The track is the proving ground. Everything else is just practice.
Its cool about not saying what you meant, but I see way to many people dance around what they really want to say and as you can say I speak my mind and rarely hold back. Not a good thing all the time I agree but if your gonna dance around it you might as well just spell it out for everyone.
Last edited by propain; Jul 23, 2011 at 09:46 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2011
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From: San Diego
C63, C300, 911TT x 3, 911 C2 x 2, 911SC, SL65, SL500, 280SL Plus some trucks
I try to be lower key and I assume people all know that tuners cars tend to be tuned a little sharper and usually are running around with the tuners latest tricks and test code. At least I would hope so. I'd hate to think tuners have perfectly safe code in their own cars and they have an extra couple of degrees of timing advance (as an example) in customer's cars to see what happens. 
Jim
Jim
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Posts: 2,305
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From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
C63, SL55, E55, CLS55, ML63, C55
I think the biggest beef in this whole thread is the actual naming of the title video. If the title said xxx vs MBH header only. It would be more of a true statement in the video title. I'll be the first to say it... A header and tuned car will beat a header only car all day long. I dont care if Jesus himself made them. A header tune combo will win every time. The title should read MBH header only vs xxx I have no connection with ACG's tuning. They do it on their own and I'm happy that they do.
Also for another sponsor to come in to this thread without a horse in the race and make speculations. To who ACG is working with, name doping a person, that last I heard was holding down a job totally away from the car industry. Frankly, its uncalled for. I've been down that road before and It was wrong when I did it and its still wrong now.
I'm not a fan of street racing. If I run any car. I give them 1 gear win loose or draw. its just not safe. Back in the day we had a forum member that lived out here in AZ. His E63 was involved in a major crash that resulted in the death of some old man. Now this guy is serving 5 years in prison. Last thing I want see is someone get hurt. If there is a rematch, do it at the track.
Also for another sponsor to come in to this thread without a horse in the race and make speculations. To who ACG is working with, name doping a person, that last I heard was holding down a job totally away from the car industry. Frankly, its uncalled for. I've been down that road before and It was wrong when I did it and its still wrong now.
I'm not a fan of street racing. If I run any car. I give them 1 gear win loose or draw. its just not safe. Back in the day we had a forum member that lived out here in AZ. His E63 was involved in a major crash that resulted in the death of some old man. Now this guy is serving 5 years in prison. Last thing I want see is someone get hurt. If there is a rematch, do it at the track.
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I think the biggest beef in this whole thread is the actual naming of the title video. If the title said xxx vs MBH header only. It would be more of a true statement in the video title. I'll be the first to say it... A header and tuned car will beat a header only car all day long. I dont care if Jesus himself made them. A header tune combo will win every time. The title should read MBH header only vs xxx I have no connection with ACG's tuning. They do it on their own and I'm happy that they do.
Also for another sponsor to come in to this thread without a horse in the race and make speculations to who ACG is working with, name doping a person, that last I heard was holding down a job totally away from the car industry. Frankly, its uncalled for. I've been down that road before and It was wrong when I did it and its still wrong now.
I'm not a fan of street racing. If I run any car. I give them 1 gear win loose or draw. its just not safe. Back in the day we had a forum member that lived out here in AZ. His E63 was involved in a major crash that resulted in the death of some old man. Now this guy is serving 5 years in prison. Last thing I want see is someone get hurt. If there is a rematch, do it at the track.
Also for another sponsor to come in to this thread without a horse in the race and make speculations to who ACG is working with, name doping a person, that last I heard was holding down a job totally away from the car industry. Frankly, its uncalled for. I've been down that road before and It was wrong when I did it and its still wrong now.
I'm not a fan of street racing. If I run any car. I give them 1 gear win loose or draw. its just not safe. Back in the day we had a forum member that lived out here in AZ. His E63 was involved in a major crash that resulted in the death of some old man. Now this guy is serving 5 years in prison. Last thing I want see is someone get hurt. If there is a rematch, do it at the track.
That statement is my beef in this thread. We are to assume based on everything we know that he was not running a file yet all things point to that he was. No way he would have hung as close as he did in Run 3 without a file in the car. No way in hell.
Agreed on the 3rd tuner with nothing to do with the title sticking his nose in it, but at least he shed light on the "Partial Flash" BS.
Round and round... this is not going to go anywhere productive anytime soon. Its a he said he said and its all hearsay as far as I'm concerned. At least there is a video.
So good luck to Xtyper who has admitted it was closer than it looked in the video and I look forward to the TRACK results soon.
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From: Los Angeles
2009 C63
No way he was running without a tune (that's 40+rwhp) you will feel that in an instant. I don't believe in partial tunes and I don't believe the dealer touched the ECU without begging/paying them to do so because they wouldn't without a major issue and never have done a courtesy flash without documentation as well. That's just my opinion, thought I'd share since everyone else was.
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From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
No way he was running without a tune (that's 40+rwhp) you will feel that in an instant. I don't believe in partial tunes and I don't believe the dealer touched the ECU without begging/paying them to do so because they wouldn't without a major issue and never have done a courtesy flash without documentation as
well. That's just my opinion,
thought I'd share since everyone
else was.
well. That's just my opinion,
thought I'd share since everyone
else was.
straws here! lololol Jeremys a
better driver? you both have
Automatics! /losing driver had
potential bad gas/shifted
wrong/not in Manual
mode/Jeremy has a
Race cat-back? wtf all that dont
have your heads up ur fat
rumps know FULL WELL CAT
BACK ON N/A motors adds
ZERO HP, for sound ONLY!
Then possible Jeremy not using
full interior/reflashed ecu @
dealer to stock lol my personal
fav! objects in mirrors
are closer than they appear??
No you lost by multi
lengths, sweet baby jeezuss i cant believe u guys think/type this list of drivel excuses???
Reality: Jeremys OE Tuning kicks phuking azz PERIOD as seen on vidz, shame on you
other tuners (you kno who u
are) supporting this BS partial
Tuning reflash being major
reason other c63 was/is notably
slower IT's your subpar Tune vs
OE Jeremys Tune w/near
identical supporting bhp on N/A apps soo drop it & get Jeremy to tune ur rig then report back
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,155
Likes: 20
From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
Word!! you guys are grasping @
straws here! lololol Jeremys a
better driver? you both have
Automatics! /losing driver had
potential bad gas/shifted
wrong/not in Manual
mode/Jeremy has a
Race cat-back? wtf all that dont
have your heads up ur fat
rumps know FULL WELL CAT
BACK ON N/A motors adds
ZERO HP, for sound ONLY!
Then possible Jeremy not using
full interior/reflashed ecu @
dealer to stock lol my personal
fav! objects in mirrors
are closer than they appear??
No you lost by multi
lengths, sweet baby jeezuss i cant believe u guys think/type
this list of drivel excuses???
Reality: Jeremys OE Tuning kicks phuking azz PERIOD as
seen on vidz, shame on you
other tuners (you kno who u
are) supporting this BS partial
Tuning reflash being major
reason other c63 was/is notably
slower IT's your subpar Tune vs
OE Jeremys Tune w/near
identical supporting mods
soo drop it & get Jeremy to tune ur rig then report
back
straws here! lololol Jeremys a
better driver? you both have
Automatics! /losing driver had
potential bad gas/shifted
wrong/not in Manual
mode/Jeremy has a
Race cat-back? wtf all that dont
have your heads up ur fat
rumps know FULL WELL CAT
BACK ON N/A motors adds
ZERO HP, for sound ONLY!
Then possible Jeremy not using
full interior/reflashed ecu @
dealer to stock lol my personal
fav! objects in mirrors
are closer than they appear??
No you lost by multi
lengths, sweet baby jeezuss i cant believe u guys think/type
this list of drivel excuses???
Reality: Jeremys OE Tuning kicks phuking azz PERIOD as
seen on vidz, shame on you
other tuners (you kno who u
are) supporting this BS partial
Tuning reflash being major
reason other c63 was/is notably
slower IT's your subpar Tune vs
OE Jeremys Tune w/near
identical supporting mods
soo drop it & get Jeremy to tune ur rig then report
back
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 418
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
C63, C300, 911TT x 3, 911 C2 x 2, 911SC, SL65, SL500, 280SL Plus some trucks
xtyper, I agree with your original plan to get your spare ecu programmed with the OE tune and just go to the dyne and see which one is hotter.
Jim
Jim
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,196
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From: SoCal
2013 E63 AMG
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,493
Likes: 3
MB
Word!! you guys are grasping @
straws here! lololol Jeremys a
better driver? you both have
Automatics! /losing driver had
potential bad gas/shifted
wrong/not in Manual
mode/Jeremy has a
Race cat-back? wtf all that dont
have your heads up ur fat
rumps know FULL WELL CAT
BACK ON N/A motors adds
ZERO HP, for sound ONLY!
Then possible Jeremy not using
full interior/reflashed ecu @
dealer to stock lol my personal
fav! objects in mirrors
are closer than they appear??
No you lost by multi
lengths, sweet baby jeezuss i cant believe u guys think/type this list of drivel excuses???
Reality: Jeremys OE Tuning kicks phuking azz PERIOD as seen on vidz, shame on you
other tuners (you kno who u
are) supporting this BS partial
Tuning reflash being major
reason other c63 was/is notably
slower IT's your subpar Tune vs
OE Jeremys Tune w/near
identical supporting bhp on N/A apps soo drop it & get Jeremy to tune ur rig then report back
straws here! lololol Jeremys a
better driver? you both have
Automatics! /losing driver had
potential bad gas/shifted
wrong/not in Manual
mode/Jeremy has a
Race cat-back? wtf all that dont
have your heads up ur fat
rumps know FULL WELL CAT
BACK ON N/A motors adds
ZERO HP, for sound ONLY!
Then possible Jeremy not using
full interior/reflashed ecu @
dealer to stock lol my personal
fav! objects in mirrors
are closer than they appear??
No you lost by multi
lengths, sweet baby jeezuss i cant believe u guys think/type this list of drivel excuses???
Reality: Jeremys OE Tuning kicks phuking azz PERIOD as seen on vidz, shame on you
other tuners (you kno who u
are) supporting this BS partial
Tuning reflash being major
reason other c63 was/is notably
slower IT's your subpar Tune vs
OE Jeremys Tune w/near
identical supporting bhp on N/A apps soo drop it & get Jeremy to tune ur rig then report back
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
'11 C63 w/ P31
I think he meant the fact that Xtyper has stock mufflers and Jeremy has Gintani mufflers (stock vs modded) but his point was that aftermarket mufflers dont add power
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
CLS55
Until there is a re-race, this video is a joke lol anyone with some smarts knows there is something not right about either car here, respectfully. What that is who knows, but posting a video of this knowingly aware is shameful and misleading.
Realistically a HEALTHY tune v's HEALTHY tune might yield 10+ This video is more like mod vs stock. We are looking at a 50+ hp pull, if so one of these cars is about to blow their motor!
Realistically a HEALTHY tune v's HEALTHY tune might yield 10+ This video is more like mod vs stock. We are looking at a 50+ hp pull, if so one of these cars is about to blow their motor!
Banned
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,914
Likes: 8
From: San Diego, CA
a car
Until there is a re-race, this video is a joke lol anyone with some smarts knows there is something not right about either car here, respectfully. What that is who knows, but posting a video of this knowingly aware is shameful and misleading.
Realistically a HEALTHY tune v's HEALTHY tune might yield 10+ This video is more like mod vs stock. We are looking at a 50+ hp pull, if so one of these cars is about to blow their motor!
Realistically a HEALTHY tune v's HEALTHY tune might yield 10+ This video is more like mod vs stock. We are looking at a 50+ hp pull, if so one of these cars is about to blow their motor!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,137
Likes: 4
From: California, USA
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
A few random thoughts relating to this thread...
1) The dealer does not have the equipment to perform a partial tune, they can only re-flash the whole DME file back to stock or to a newer firmware version.
2) Some dealers (not all) will flash cars back to stock without noting it on the paperwork and without customers asking for it. For some reason, they are programmed to check for updates as soon as they connect the car to STAR DS. This happened to me a couple of times with previous cars. I went in for an oil change and left with a stock tune
3) On the 63s, removing primary cats will show 10 to 15 whp. This has been shown more than a few times now.
4) Looks like Famoso this year will be very exciting, as they'll be quite a few nice races setup for the event
1) The dealer does not have the equipment to perform a partial tune, they can only re-flash the whole DME file back to stock or to a newer firmware version.
2) Some dealers (not all) will flash cars back to stock without noting it on the paperwork and without customers asking for it. For some reason, they are programmed to check for updates as soon as they connect the car to STAR DS. This happened to me a couple of times with previous cars. I went in for an oil change and left with a stock tune
3) On the 63s, removing primary cats will show 10 to 15 whp. This has been shown more than a few times now.
4) Looks like Famoso this year will be very exciting, as they'll be quite a few nice races setup for the event
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,317
Likes: 3
From: Northport N.Y.
2013 f250 6.7 diesel
A few random thoughts relating to this thread...
1) The dealer does not have the equipment to perform a partial tune, they can only re-flash the whole DME file back to stock or to a newer firmware version.
2) Some dealers (not all) will flash cars back to stock without noting it on the paperwork and without customers asking for it. For some reason, they are programmed to check for updates as soon as they connect the car to STAR DS. This happened to me a couple of times with previous cars. I went in for an oil change and left with a stock tune
3) On the 63s, removing primary cats will show 10 to 15 whp. This has been shown more than a few times now.
4) Looks like Famoso this year will be very exciting, as they'll be quite a few nice races setup for the event
1) The dealer does not have the equipment to perform a partial tune, they can only re-flash the whole DME file back to stock or to a newer firmware version.
2) Some dealers (not all) will flash cars back to stock without noting it on the paperwork and without customers asking for it. For some reason, they are programmed to check for updates as soon as they connect the car to STAR DS. This happened to me a couple of times with previous cars. I went in for an oil change and left with a stock tune
3) On the 63s, removing primary cats will show 10 to 15 whp. This has been shown more than a few times now.
4) Looks like Famoso this year will be very exciting, as they'll be quite a few nice races setup for the event
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 4
From: San Diego
F-250
^
I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to run "cat-less" on the street. These modifications are for off-road use, and as the video shows: Used in Mexico.
Jeremy, Your car is a beast! Unbelievable power with exhaust and tune.
I have to (choke) agree with the Ricker.. Seems like a lot of hubabaloo
I think one primary difference: Jeremy tunes a LOT of AMG's, as well as a LOT of other high end cars. Not many tuners have the same level of experience. I have been to OE when there are 4 MB's sitting in line to tune. I can not say enough for his work!
I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to run "cat-less" on the street. These modifications are for off-road use, and as the video shows: Used in Mexico.
Jeremy, Your car is a beast! Unbelievable power with exhaust and tune.
I have to (choke) agree with the Ricker.. Seems like a lot of hubabaloo
I think one primary difference: Jeremy tunes a LOT of AMG's, as well as a LOT of other high end cars. Not many tuners have the same level of experience. I have been to OE when there are 4 MB's sitting in line to tune. I can not say enough for his work!
Last edited by Bramage; Aug 7, 2011 at 04:31 PM.
