MBH motorsports

This leads me into my next post. I was waiting all day to hear back from my friends at Mercedes. I started my inquiry at about 8:15 this morning. Around noon time I got a phone call back saying. "I can't find anything in the service bulletins." He told me he dig into it more. About an hour ago (Arizona time) I received a phone call back. This is what I was told.

According to a Mechanic at the Mercedes dealer. "Just about every newer Mercedes that come in for service has the ECM checked and updated if needed." I specifically asked my friend to find out if it is just an update to the existing porgram or if its new software all together. The answer I got back was "It is just an update. They do not load a whole new program onto the ECM." I was given the same analogy I used in a past post. "it is much like updating windows on your computer" I replied with "thats exactly what I said" He replied with "A new program is not loaded. It is more like patching the existing program"

Lastly and most importantly I heard this. Please keep in mind I didn't even ask about this. I was told "the latest update from Mercedes has issues" With that said, I see yet another update coming down the pipe line.

I also think this is a first of many people that will run into this issue if their car is tuned.

I would encourage anyone that has a friend at the dealer or a cool service adviser to look into this for you. There is a possibility you could get other info, or "don't worry" from someone else. It could be as simple for someone to call the dealer and ask when your car is in service do they look or add updates to your ECM/ECU.

Xtyper did state the runs were done after his visit to the dealer and done to see if he was down on power. Please keep in mind we offer a wide selection of how to built the mid-section. In Xtyper's case, He has extra resonators added and no Xpipe.

xtyper

Thanks Jim. Car definitely feels better, but you're right I'll need to hit the track to prove it. Hurry up old man winter!

JHDavis

Glad to hear you got her back up and running on point.

Now what I don't get is why OE won't race you again? If your car wasn't running correctly then you should get a rematch right?

What does OE have to lose?

Odd.

propain

Interesting. I will avoid the dealer for sure!

I appreciate the inquiry to the dealer but I'm still not convinced. I still don't see how they could update the file without replacing the file. Were talking shop mechanics, not computer people here. They plug it in, they hit a button. Maybe when they say update it means a revision to the file and not a new version. Using computer examples, File number 5 has an update so its now 5.1 instead of 6.0. Ya know?

The only way to add an update to a program with a single file is by replacing the entire file unless you open the file and make specific changes. Writing the code to do this using a tool or batch file makes no sense. It would be easier and much quicker to just overwrite the entire file with the changes. This isn't a big file.

If the program has multiple files then you could change only the files you want to updated without copying the entire program again. Like your windows example.

Its like saying you are going to make a change to a Word document without opening the document and just replacing the bytes of the file where the changes are needed. Not gonna happen.

Either way another run would solve this. Hopefully Jeremy reconsiders.

MBH motorsports

In any event I wanted to do my due diligence and inquire to the people who have full access to make chances to the ECU at any time via the OBDII port. I have Another friend at Atwood European (Independence Mercedes service center here in AZ) Who is a certified Mercedes tech and has a up to date real deal Xentry system. So I'll seek another opinion on the matter. Keep in mind my friend at the dealer isn't the first to tell me about this update.

I tell you what, I'd be up for some friendly races soon. I'm going to sell my SL55 and I'm pretty sure I want a C63. I just need four doors and back seat. The tracks our here in AZ are devastating to NA cars though. Whatever though. The C63 is an amazing car.

propain

Its all good and I appreciate the effort to get to the bottom of this. I just want the real reason. Anything you can find out would be great.

I'm always up for some friendly races!

James@ACG

Sorry guys I've been out of the office all day, got to spend some good time with the Weistec guys, great group of gents!

As for this video, there are a few tid bits that are missing, but I'll leave it at this. Last month Xtyper dyno'ed 470whp on OE tunings Dyno, last week he went back to OE Tunings dyno and put down a whopping 400whp after he thought his dealer reflashed him. Fair to say that this vehicle is of a car with a tune against one that does not. I will however eat my words if Jeremy kicks his butt again as xtyper got his ecu reflashed today.

James@ACG

side note, I'll be dynoing the Weistec C63 tomorrow after i do a few data logs to make sure everything is running correct :p

MBH motorsports

James I smell over 600 at the wheels heading your way. Richard was driving the supercharged CLS 63 today. He then joined me for lunch. Telling me It was one of the fastest cars he's ever driven The way these 63's deliver the power is astonishing. You will be in for a treat on the test drive. I can't say enough as to how nice the Weistec kit is. Its mind boggling.

xtyper

Yeah, enough about my commonplace NA stage 2 setup...this is what we are all waiting for! Looking forward to the results James!

_AMG_

Is there a dyno sheet of xtyper's 400hp dyno run?

jspAMG

I'm glad that your car got sorted out. I left feeling really bad for you. I'm glad there was a 'save' in it for you.

Jim

jacob502

As for the partial ECU flash. This never does happen. When your car is tuned and a new version of the ECU software is released from MB and uploaded. Your tuning parameters will all be gone including your fuel paramateres. Therefore, if you have headers with no cats, after this specific upload, you will have a CEL (I know this because it happened to me). However, when you take your tuned car and the dealer uploads an existing software, nothing will happen to your tune (also happened to me)as Propain explained. Becuase you tuned the files that were already from the version you already have. just like updating microsoft windows, when you have windows XP and you update it, you wont lose your saved files, but when you upgrade to windows 7, then you will lose all your files and you will need to add the files again.


P.S: when I take my car to the dealer I always ask if there is a newer ECU update. If there is, I would tell them not to updte my ECU


All in all, I still think Xtyper would lose the race against Jeremy. The OE tune is more aggresive

jspAMG

I'd almost have a heart attack if Jeremy's car didn't beat him if the mod list is essentially the same. The question would be by how much. Probably not as much as in the video.

The reason for this outcome should be obvious.

Jim

mercadoktorn

hello guys ,every day someone tells me how fast and fantastic the weistec is,but im still waiting for the first acceleration proof with this weistec supercharger,just one clip showing speedometer accelerate,the one that does this is very big in my eyes,for all you other who has the supercharger installed,shame on you,i would have done it for you guys 10 times if you had ask me for something to share,dont start with ,im to busy ,i dont have a camera and other bull****!

SALES@OETUNING

Eric, this is now your 3rd flash from ACG. Remember you had them flash your ecu again (second time) after dynoing low with 100 octane pump gas. IMHO high octane pump gas is rarely used (in this economy) and the chance of getting lower octane or bad gas are high. Then you said the car was strong again, with new flash and new gas, the runs were made. Your car did have a tune in it at the time of dynoing with a tank of 100. Why the need for all the retunes?

jspAMG

mercadoktorn,

Why are you obsessed with speedometer videos? They involve shifting which is affected by the driver and the condition of the transmission and tires/road surface have a huge impact on the results. Plus you can never be certain what the actual weight of the car is.

All you need is to compare dyno runs and look at the area under the torque curve. HP on dyno runs is a calculated figure the dyno itself determines as a math function. The higher and broader the torque curve the better. Everything else is secondary. Once you compare two cars on the same dyno, you have your answers.

Getting videos is dangerous and not completely representative of actual car potential.

Plus it can be manipulated. Right next to ACG is a factory that produces and sells gears and axles. Custom made to your specs. Suppose I wanted to screw with you and had them make me a 5.66:1 Ring Gear. I could have months or years of fun with people and probably help sell hundreds of superchargers for Weistec to frustrated customers who could never duplicate my results. You can accomplish similar things with tire and wheel combos at a smaller scale.

Personally, you will never catch me making high speed runs with a camera in my hand trying to keep it focused on the speedometer. Especially in a busy road environment in a car producing in excess of 600 wheel horsepower. There are those that will I'm sure. If they do it where I can see them, I'll be the guy calling the police on them.

Jim

xtyper

I think there was a misunderstanding here. Last week when I drove down to ACG after the low dyno results at your shop, James read out my file and determined that the portion of the ECU overwritten from the dealer rendered it "unretuneable" until a decryption could be determined. Thats why i had to make the trip back down yesterday for the fresh reflash. So our races were with no retune, but the car did feel stronger that night compared to the dyno time having filled up with 3/4 tank of fresh gas. So from my perspective there are two variables that MAY have caused my car to be running less than optimal during our runs: 1) effect of residual 1/4 tank of possibly bad gas still running through the system, and 2) the lack of full tune reflash.

Obviously as of yesterday both those variables have been eliminated. While the car does again "feel" stronger now than it did during the runs, I still expect your car to pull me, although hopefully just not by as much. Your abilities as a tuner are nothing short of amazing and it is clear that the Gintani hardware you're running is equally impressive and well matched. Combine that with your great driving skills, I don't see how I could beat you unless I do another considerable mod.

I would be anxious to see a few more runs against you with my current setup, then let you tune my spare ECU and go back out for a few more to compare. Just hit me up whenever if you're interested.

BAD430BENZ

what happened to JHDavis ? did i miss something ?

propain

Checked my Data from the track. 0-60 3.62 was the best I did at MIR. My Vbox didnt record data from ATCO but I'm sure none of my runs would beat my MIR times. WOW Hagi.. 3.2 is sick...

I am Jeff

Yes you did....it's called "Blowing the spot of a Sponsor!" lol

Powerchip

Now that the car has been read it is very simple for the person that performed the work to make a statement of fact and remove any speculation

The ME9.7 ecu has a rolling immobilizer, so every aftermarket upgrade MUST read out the code that is currently residing in the ECU.

That code can be checked for differences against the code last installed in the car.

When Mercedes change the code they give it what we call a different "software number" which is the number that comes up on the STAR tool as well as hardware number.

The editing software tuners use lists the software number automatically as part of an automatic indexing feature, it takes 10 seconds to determine if that number is the same or different.

In terms of the calibration code itself, it was either the same as the time it was flashed previously, or it wasn't.

That takes the person 3 minuites to determine. It is very easy to do.

In the industry, there are two levels of involvement, determined by the type of equipment the seller has.

A master allows reading and writing without encryption and allows the binary code to be examined.

A slave allows reading and writing, but the files are encrypted and the changes can not be viewed by the installer.

If ACGSD only have slave equipment, then it would explain why they have not posted what the changes to the code were.

This would remove the need for speculation.

Does ACGSD install the files the call theirs using a master or a slave?

Is the file purchased or made by Jeff Katz from Stealthwerks?

The key to determining the origin of the file is to know who balances (corrects) the checksum of the file and if the editing software is licensed to them.

The delays in responding with authority regarding the suposed "partial reflashes" are unusual for any developer of tuning software.

And the speculation proposed that the STAR tool can perform a partial reflash has not been supported by any primary source like a video

All this speculation can end if the person that examined the two calibrations posted what was actually different between what was read and what was installed previously (if anything)

jspAMG

You know, the number of vendors that come in and want to get in the middle of an issue between a customer and another vendor is disturbing. Informational posts on how a process works is one thing. Calling out other vendors to explain themselves is over the line in my opinion.

Jim

Clearing the air: My car is being worked on by ACG to install my Weistec. Steve from Weistec can verify that I called HIM about getting the system installed at their facility. He agreed they could do it. He also advised that I could have some of "their" installers do the install as well since I wanted to have many other mods installed as well. I told Steve that I had 3 business locations in San Diego, Vista and Huntington Beach and I could work with their installers from any one of them. Steve at Weistec suggested ACG. So, while I am a first time customer of theirs, I don't have any irons in this fire.

I would be just as put off if they (ACG) were acting like some other vendors.

propain

I agree, but as a customer I was put off by ACG telling their customer(xtyper) that the dealer did a partial reflash. It seemed strange to me when I heard it, but Im not a tuner so I have no clue. I do have a lot of experience with code and computers so thats why I questioned it.

But then other tuners have verified that its not possible to do a partial flash to the file, yet ACG continues to feed this excuse as the problem with his car without explaining how its possible. Well, they arent explaining anything, they are telling Xtyper who is telling us. Maybe he is misinterpreting what they are telling him.

If its possible.. great. I have yet to see anyone explain how it is though.

jspAMG

I can't speak for ACG. I won't even try. I do know that James has been extremely busy the past week. There is a lot of speculation filling up a vacuum on this board about many things.

James' explanations. jrcart's Weistec (which I have a good amount of info on but its none of my business and not what anyone thinks). There are lots of things that are being gossiped about that none of us really have all the facts for.

In the absence of more information I think it would be appropriate to resist the urge to fill in the blanks on our own.

I feel bad that there weren't before and after dyno runs on this car before this latest round of flashing. We might have all learned something. Right now, we've learned to gossip, pick sides and generally just fill up space with no real chance of finding what's real and what's not.

The one thing that is still possible to do is for xtyper to go to his dealer and ask the mechanic in person, what did you do to my car? The guy might not even remember at this point.

This is why I always have this talk with the dealership right up front. Don't touch the programming without talking to me first.

Jim